FIRST OFFICIAL DX10 GAME DEMO OUT

[mcturkey]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

So you've been playing the DX10 version of the game on your DX9 hardware? Your statement is too inclusive. Most games with a DX10 rendering path will also have a DX9 rendering path. However, there may well come a day when games don't support that.

 

[apoppin]

don't know if you saw this:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39647

AMD disses Lost Planet

The game is part of the Nvidia TWIMTBP programme, despite being first developed for the ATI GPU inside the Xbox 360. Numerous colleagues of ours in the press corps have reported receiving the following missive from DAAMIT, cautioning against the use of the demo as a benchmark:

"Tomorrow Nvidia is expected to host new DirectX 10 content on nZone.com in the form of a ?Lost Planet? benchmark. Before you begin testing, there are a few points I want to convey about ?Lost Planet?. ?Lost Planet? is an Nvidia-sponsored title, and one that Nvidia has had a chance to look at and optimize their drivers for. The developer has not made us aware of this new benchmark, and as such the ATI Radeon driver team has not had the opportunity explore how the benchmark uses our hardware and optimize in a similar fashion. Over the next little while AMD will be looking at this, but in the meantime, please note that whatever performance you see will not be reflective of what gamers will experience in the final build of the game."

Of course, this is the same company that distributed the ATI-sponsored Call of Juarez DX10 benchmark to a 'select few' publications that it was hoping would come up with some good DX10 coverage for it, whilst refusing to divulge the code to other outlets.

Anyway, wasn't driver optimisation supposed to die around the time of 3DMark 05?

Regardless of whether it's due to driver optimisation or just poor hardware, the initial results are in and it doesn't look good for DAAMIT. Damage control or genuine concern for the editorial independence of the world's hardware press? You choose.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: mcturkey

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

So you've been playing the DX10 version of the game on your DX9 hardware? Your statement is too inclusive. Most games with a DX10 rendering path will also have a DX9 rendering path. However, there may well come a day when games don't support that.

Name me one, that wont play on a DX9 card. Do you think devs are that dumb to alienate the majority of gamers? No.

The fact is, any DX10 game will play on a DX9 card. Him saying, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." Is wrong, plain and simple.

 

[apoppin]

not yet Ackmed .... that will be Alan Wake

however, right now Halo2 requires Vista

MS games is that dumb

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: mcturkey

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

So you've been playing the DX10 version of the game on your DX9 hardware? Your statement is too inclusive. Most games with a DX10 rendering path will also have a DX9 rendering path. However, there may well come a day when games don't support that.

Name me one, that wont play on a DX9 card. Do you think devs are that dumb to alienate the majority of gamers? No.

I think a more appropriate way to say this is, You can play DX10 games on DX9 hardware, just without any DX10 features. Also, games could turn up that will ONLY run on Vista. Similar to how certain games that ran on Win9x will not run on W2k/XP or games that require W2K/XP and wont run on Win9x.
This is entirely possible. You are too quick to dismiss things however. You'll probably say this will never happen, even though history dictates that it most assuredly has. You can safely bet that Microsoft has it's beady little eyes on this prospect forcing gamers who want to play the latest DX10 game into buying Vista. Alienation is relative. Big devs may see that people who want to game in DX10 style will in fact bite the bullet for Vista. They can use the momentum of MS pressure to make development decisions.



The fact is, any DX10 game will play on a DX9 card. Him saying, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." Is wrong, plain and simple.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: mcturkey
Color me unimpressed. Under DX10 with everything maxed out, running at 1600x1000, it averaged 19fps on my system (X2 4400, 8800GTX, 2GB DDR2) with no apparent visual improvement over the 360 version. What DX10 visual effects are in this game that are not available in the DX9 version?

Also, I hope this is not indicative of general DX10 performance in all games. Hopefully the driver situation will be remedied in time for Crysis, because it's looking like I may need to go SLI (in addition to a K10 quad-core as soon as they're available). Sigh. This hobby does get rather expensive.

This is my concern too. If the DX10 demos/patches available now are any indication than the highest end hardware will only average somewhere in the neighborhood of ~30fps. That's pathetic and unplayable for most games IMO. That has to change, I can't afford $800 on video cards just to play a handfull of games not to mention a new PSU since my P5B Deluxe can only do crossfire and the 2900xt is too damn power hungry. That would mean that I'd be spending over $1k for just a few games...that's rediculous and out of the question. I sincerely hope that a single card in the range of a 2900xt or 8800gtx can and will handle the new DX10 games.

You could sttribute it to drivers, bad game code, ineffecient use of DX10 in general or whatever you want. I just hope the graphical quality of the real DX10 games doesn't make the game run at 10fps.

I too don't see any difference between DX9 and DX10 of this game except that the DX10 version runs ungodly slow. My friend's 3Ghz C2D with an 8800gts only gets in the range of 25fps give or take.

I'm betting this is a badly coded game, period.

Crysis is the only other DX10 game I've been following, and it's been said many times that it will run very well on X1900's, 1950's, and 7900's. The system requirements are something like a P4 2.0GHz and a X1300. That implies that it's not going to require as much power as this demo seems to, I mean so far it looks like SLI'd 8800GTX's (not possible in Vista right now) are required to play at 1600 X 1200 with good frames and that's just not reasonable. There would be no market for this game.

So don't give up on DX10 games yet, I suspect this is just a bad demo.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: mcturkey

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

So you've been playing the DX10 version of the game on your DX9 hardware? Your statement is too inclusive. Most games with a DX10 rendering path will also have a DX9 rendering path. However, there may well come a day when games don't support that.

Name me one, that wont play on a DX9 card. Do you think devs are that dumb to alienate the majority of gamers? No.

I think a more appropriate way to say this is, You can play DX10 games on DX9 hardware, just without any DX10 features. Also, games could turn up that will ONLY run on Vista. Similar to how certain games that ran on Win9x will not run on W2k/XP or games that require W2K/XP and wont run on Win9x.
This is entirely possible. You are too quick to dismiss things however. You'll probably say this will never happen, even though history dictates that it most assuredly has. You can safely bet that Microsoft has it's beady little eyes on this prospect forcing gamers who want to play the latest DX10 game into buying Vista. Alienation is relative. Big devs may see that people who want to game in DX10 style will in fact bite the bullet for Vista. They can use the momentum of MS pressure to make development decisions.



The fact is, any DX10 game will play on a DX9 card. Him saying, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." Is wrong, plain and simple.

It all comes down to this, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." He is wrong in saying so.

How do I know? Because Im playing a DX10 demo now, with a DX9 card and a DX9 path. Making a blanket statement like he did is wrong, and foolish. All I did is point it out, and now its being dragged on an on...

Yeah some games will require Vista, because MS wants people to upgrade, and use their Live service. That doesnt mean games will be DX10 or nothing. How long as DX9 been out? How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

 

[apoppin]

How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

quite a few and the list is growing

but that is besides your point
most new games will have a DX9 path at least for a couple of more years

Alan Wake is an 'exception' - so far - that requires DX10 ... and a Dual-core cpu
-next year, i believe

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: funks


That's ODD, on my FX60 (not overclocked), 8800GTS

1920x1200 (video settings defaulted - AA disabled), i'm getting 30 fps on the demo..

Dropping the resolution down to 720p (1280x720p with AA disabled) - on the Performance Test, i'm getting 67 on the snow, and 36 on the cave.

Vista X64 / 158.18 drivers.

It's not odd.. The default settings under D3D10 set HDR and shadow quality/resolution to medium, which affects performance very much..

As I said under d3d10 with everything set to high(and not default settings which put hdr and shadow quality/resolution to medium) 1600x1200 0AA/16AF I get 18-20fps..

The shadow quality;/resolution and hdr high levels really kill performance (almost to half).. And this comes w/o important IQ differences.. At least not for me from a quick walkaround..
AA doesn't seem to affect performance much up to 4xAA..

There's no doubt the D3D10 path lacks good optimisation..
The results I saw under D3D9 seem pretty much ok to me(~50fps and up depending on the resolution), considering that the game is running in xbox360 with ~30fps..

I'm using 158.43 for Vista.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: apoppin

How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

quite a few and the list is growing

but that is besides your point
most new games will have a DX9 path at least for a couple of more years

Alan Wake is an 'exception' - so far - that requires DX10 ... and a Dual-core cpu
-next year, i believe

And when did DX9 come out again... ? The fact is, his statement is wrong, and I corrected him on it. He didnt like it, or doesnt understand he is wrong. And now Im done discussing it, there really is no point in it.

Personally, I dont think Allen Wake will require a DX10 card, but who knows. What I do know is that Lost Planet doesnt, making his comment wrong.

 

[almach1]

i got an error i couldn't find on the first 3 pages.

i have installed drivers 158.42 on Vista Prem.

unable to locate component.

XINPUT1_3.dll was not found.

anybody else get this?

 

[igloo15]

yes read the pages again and you will find solution

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: apoppin

How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

quite a few and the list is growing

but that is besides your point
most new games will have a DX9 path at least for a couple of more years

Alan Wake is an 'exception' - so far - that requires DX10 ... and a Dual-core cpu
-next year, i believe

And when did DX9 come out again... ? The fact is, his statement is wrong, and I corrected him on it. He didnt like it, or doesnt understand he is wrong. And now Im done discussing it, there really is no point in it.

Personally, I dont think Allen Wake will require a DX10 card, but who knows. What I do know is that Lost Planet doesnt, making his comment wrong.

i assume that is rhetorical about DX8 and will ignore it

and i was answering YOU ... and i corrected you ... maybe don't you understand you are wrong.

Alan Wake DOES require DX10 and dual core. And now Im done discussing it, there really is no point in it.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: apoppin

How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

quite a few and the list is growing

but that is besides your point
most new games will have a DX9 path at least for a couple of more years

Alan Wake is an 'exception' - so far - that requires DX10 ... and a Dual-core cpu
-next year, i believe

And when did DX9 come out again... ? The fact is, his statement is wrong, and I corrected him on it. He didnt like it, or doesnt understand he is wrong. And now Im done discussing it, there really is no point in it.

Personally, I dont think Allen Wake will require a DX10 card, but who knows. What I do know is that Lost Planet doesnt, making his comment wrong.

i assume that is rhetorical about DX8 and will ignore it

and i was answering YOU ... and i corrected you ... maybe don't you understand you are wrong.

Alan Wake DOES require DX10 and dual core. And now Im done discussing it, there really is no point in it.

We'll have to see. I dont think they will alienate that many people with DX9 cards. Which I seem to be backed up by allenwake.com's forums. See Faq. They said it runs fine on a 7900GTX. They even said it would run on a P4 with HT, but not very well.

Corrected me? Sorry, there is only one DX10 game (demo) available right now, and you can play it just fine with a DX9 card. Seems like I am right, and he is wrong. And of course you had to reply to me, despite you claiming you never read my posts.

 

[apoppin]

i thought you were *done* discussing it

i just called your bluff
--"their forums"
:roll:

i AM done discussing it

 

[Ackmed]

There is no bluff. He is wrong. I can run Lost Planet just fine, with a DX9 card. You are also not proven right, in fact, my link shows you wrong.

I guess we'll have to see if Allen Wake will work or not with a DX9 card. Im betting it will.

Good job not reading my posts though.

edit, nice job editing after I posted. "their" forums? Um, the official forums said it ran fine on a 7900GTX. Which as you may, or may not know, is a DX9 card, not a DX10 card.

Run off if you want, anyone with common sense can see I am right. His claim of DX10 games not running on DX9 cards has been proven wrong. Seems yours has too, that Allen Wake will require a DX10 card, and DC CPU. Official forums state the opposite.

 

[apoppin]

if a tree cracks-up in a forest ...
-- all alone - with no one to observe ... or respond ...

. . . Does it still make a silly sound?

 

[Ackmed]

You're obviously still reading my posts.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You're obviously still reading my posts.

Would you please just DROP IT

what does it matter? Just get over it. The world will not burn because your DX9 card can run the DX10 demo.

 

[nullpointerus]

Ackmed, your post was a *judgment call*, but it sounded like a *statement of fact*. If you'd said from the first that, in your opinion, it was extremely unlikely that a developer would make a game requiring DX10 hardware exclusively at this point in time, then no one would be arguing with you now because you would all be in agreement. Your posts were worded as if you were saying that *all* DX10 games would run on DX9 cards without any developer action.

*sigh*

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: MadBoris
Here is my DX10 performance in the game:

C2D 6300 @ 3GHZ
Geforce 8800GTS @ 580/980

Driver settings: (158.42)
High quality textures
vsynch on
AA and AF app controlled.

In game settings:
1920x1200
8x AF
No AA
HDR - medium
Shadow quality - medium
Shadow resolution - default
The rest of the settings on High.

Snow - 30 fps
Cave - 39 fps

do you know how to get 1680x1050

C2D 6400 @ 3GHZ
Geforce 8800GTS @ stock

Driver settings: (158.43)
High quality textures
vsynch on
AA and AF app controlled.

In game settings:
1280x960
16x AF
No AA
HDR - medium
Shadow quality - medium
Shadow resolution - default
The rest of the settings on High.

Snow - 31 fps
Cave - 30 fps

i ran it with high hdr as well and it was ~19 in snow, i didn't watch the cave # but i'm also not 100% sure thatsa theonly setting i changed. i'll run some more but i want to get some wide screen.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Fraggable
The world will not burn because your DX9 card can run the DX10 demo.

Well technically it can't run the DX10 demo. There are 2 versions of the demo DX10 & DX9.

No surprise really. Most DX9 games have a DX8 version.

In fact I think DX10 is an easier transition for programmers from DX9 as opposed to going from 8 to 9.

 

[jim1976]

DP

 

[jim1976]

What characterizes the Vista version as "D3D10 my arse" is the shadow quality option .. It's the only thing that you cannot set to high in D3D9.. So if you won't run the game with shadow quality at high there's no reason to play theD3D10 version..

Visibly speaking, I can't see big differences in shadows while playing.. They are there but not so apparent to make the huge difference in IQ, and most importantly the unbelievable drop in framerate..

Originally posted by: Wreckage
In fact I think DX10 is an easier transition for programmers from DX9 as opposed to going from 8 to 9.

By all means no. DX10 is a completely new API built from scratch, with major innovations.. Undoubtedly programmers may now have a much more flexible API in their hands, but the transition from D3D9 is a major PITA for them

 

[nitromullet]

I get 29 snow/40 cave @ 1920x1200 (4xAA/16xAF) everything default except with HDR on high. While the frames aren't through the roof, it's totally playable with this game and quite immersive. I did try everything maxed out, but that dropped me down to the teens. Pretty decent showing for the 8800GTX at a high rez with a DX10 title IMO... You couldn't run Doom3, HL2, or Farcry balls out on the high end hardware of their day either, and I played those at much lower resolutions.