First sighting of a Kabini mini-itx board

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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
2x4GB isn't more expensive than 1x8GB.

Absolutely (more realistically 2*2 vs. 4). For the OEM its 2 slots instead of one on the MB. 2 pcx. ram to handle on top of that. You dont want that.
How many OEM do you think is going for dual channel BT?? - i guess only a very, very few. Hell even trinity often gets sold with only one brick.

That also means for the customers the performance is going to be slowed down on BT compared to the test we see.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
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Also, A6-5200 will operate at 100% performance with a single 8GB 1600MHz memory stick. Both Celeron 1007U and BayTrail ATOM will need dual stick memory in order to have 100% performance, raising the total cost of the platform.

Kabini is already so memory starved it hurts its performance and impacts the platform in a very negative way. Specially when IGP is used it turns into a slugfest.

I dont get why you try to oversell it so much on one of its most weak points.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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But you wont use CB in ST configuration , isnt it , so the ST
number is totaly irrelevant and should not even been used
for caracterisation of the CPUs perfs , at least for this application ,
so the final result is that Kabini is better in CB.

...and you're using a $100 low-power Mobo/CPU for Cinebench why?

CB's better optimizations for Intel notwithstanding, single-threaded performance reflect expected performance advantages/disadvantages in most office/light duty scenarios, which aren't heavily threaded.
 
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PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
168
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Didn't know office work use FP intensive workloads. Well, things you learn on AT forums
 

TrulyUncouth

Senior member
Jul 16, 2013
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0
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Cinebench is heavily Intel Optimized, if the single thread in that benchmark is so close between the two, then it will be higher for the Kabini in the rest of the apps. But even if single thread performance of A6-5200 is within 10% of the Celeron 1007U the MT performance is in another dimension.

Clearly for low power (less than 20W), A6-5200 is the clear winner both in CPU and iGPU performance. A lot of people will be able to do light work with those SoCs at a very low power usage. Intel doesnt have any competitive solution at that price/performance/power as of now.

Also, A6-5200 will operate at 100% performance with a single 8GB 1600MHz memory stick. Both Celeron 1007U and BayTrail ATOM will need dual stick memory in order to have 100% performance, raising the total cost of the platform.

I was not aware cinebench was so intel-leaning. I was merely giving one of the few benchmarks I ran when I had an A6-5200 in my possession. As for wattage, I thought A6-5200 was 25W rated?

I do wish they had gone with dual channel memory on Jaguar- if ARM processors selling at 20 dollars have it seems like it shouldn't be prohibitively exppensive.

With all that said I still think kabini is an amazing value- That Kabini laptop damn near matched my Alienware m11x which was an ~$1000 laptop 3-4 years ago. The age of cheapass okay gaming are upon us.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
Kabini is already so memory starved it hurts its performance and impacts the platform in a very negative way. Specially when IGP is used it turns into a slugfest.

I dont get why you try to oversell it so much on one of its most weak points.


Core i3 3217U HD4000 with single memory.

http://techreport.com/review/24856/amd-a4-5000-kabini-apu-reviewed/7



And that is only A4-5000 with 128GCN cores at 500MHz, A6-5200 has 128GCN cores at 600MHz.

Well if HD4000 performs that horrible, just imagine how pathetic HD2500 on Celeron 1007U will look like with single memory.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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I was not aware cinebench was so intel-leaning. I was merely giving one of the few benchmarks I ran when I had an A6-5200 in my possession. As for wattage, I thought A6-5200 was 25W rated?

I do wish they had gone with dual channel memory on Jaguar- if ARM processors selling at 20 dollars have it seems like it shouldn't be prohibitively exppensive.

With all that said I still think kabini is an amazing value- That Kabini laptop damn near matched my Alienware m11x which was an ~$1000 laptop 3-4 years ago. The age of cheapass okay gaming are upon us.

Would it match your alienware in graphics performance? I doubt it. Your alienware has what, a GT540m?

I dont really think the A6-5200 is a viable gaming solution except for older, casual, or indie type games without a discrete card. According to notebook check, it is 25 watts, which seems rather high considering the full mobile A10 with 3 times the graphics power and undoubtedly faster cpu performance is only 35 watts rated tdp. So the A6 would have to be priced well, well below that to make any sense. The A6 seems to me to be more suited for a very low end deskop or low end laptop.

Comparing it pricewise to the m11x is really an invalid comparison, because the alienware also included a discrete card, and was expensive for the performance it offered when it came out.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
Core i3 3217U HD4000 with single memory.

http://techreport.com/review/24856/amd-a4-5000-kabini-apu-reviewed/7



And that is only A4-5000 with 128GCN cores at 500MHz, A6-5200 has 128GCN cores at 600MHz.

Well if HD4000 performs that horrible, just imagine how pathetic HD2500 on Celeron 1007U will look like with single memory.

So you're basically showing that Kabini is still far too slow for any 1366x768 gaming (lowest laptop res) with modern titles. Let me help you posting a few more benchies:











1024x600 @ Low & no AA. Damn, that would hurt my eyes in a desktop monitor

 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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Core i3 3217U HD4000 with single memory.

http://techreport.com/review/24856/amd-a4-5000-kabini-apu-reviewed/7



And that is only A4-5000 with 128GCN cores at 500MHz, A6-5200 has 128GCN cores at 600MHz.

Well if HD4000 performs that horrible, just imagine how pathetic HD2500 on Celeron 1007U will look like with single memory.

You forgot to mention its also 1333Mhz instead of 1600Mhz. Just to screw the results further. Also if you look at the scaling. You would notice that the 3217U doesnt perform as expected. Not to mention the Kabini testsystem is an AMD only product you can never buy. Not exactly trustworthy there either as a baseline.

Not to mention how A4-5000 actually performs.


Kabini is simply a memory nerfed setup. Most likely in fear that it would canibalize the lowend Richland series.

And we already seen how it goes downhill outside the CPU weak prescripted benchmarks.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35371206&postcount=7

40% difference in prescripted benchmark. 400% difference ingame between 800Mhz and 4900Mhz.
 
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Jun 8, 2013
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So you're basically showing that Kabini is still far too slow for any 1366x768 gaming (lowest laptop res) with modern titles. Let me help you posting a few more benchies:

1024x600 @ Low & no AA. Damn, that would hurt my eyes in a desktop monitor

It is to be expected from a low end part such as this. It will handle a number of older titles just fine based on what the E-350 could do.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-e-350-atom-d525-nvidia-ion-2,review-32167-13.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-e-350-atom-d525-nvidia-ion-2,review-32167-14.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-e-350-atom-d525-nvidia-ion-2,review-32167-15.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-e-350-atom-d525-nvidia-ion-2,review-32167-16.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-e-350-atom-d525-nvidia-ion-2,review-32167-17.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-e-350-atom-d525-nvidia-ion-2,review-32167-18.html
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
1
0
then again who buys a ulv chip/mini itx combo to play the latest games full bore[people use this term right?]?...that what the a8-10 desktop series are for...

it'll be faster that than the celeron 1007u, and better value. It'll game 720p30 low for most games before 2008 and maybe some newer indy titles.

it will feel as fast as 35W a6-a8 chips cpu wise and have gpu performance similar to the ulv a4-a6 line.

and un/fortunately wont turbo beyond its TDP...
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
...didn't say that.

A quad c kabini at 2ghz might not be fast but due to the many cores it will never comes to a halt in office use. It will never feel outright slow. I think many users will apreciate that. Its plenty of office power for 95% of users. Many cores help both for windows and android. Ask the arm a7 phone users.
More cores is the future and its here now. There is this many core AT paranoia, but for the next years it will be where the performance comes from because its cheap.
Some want 8% better ipc but the public without oc 2500k want double the cores instead.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,868
136
According to notebook check, it is 25 watts

According to the review that was made with a 850W PSU
wich is hardly a good set up but still we can see that
the 25W Kabini consume the same as a 18W E-350 when
running 3DMark and 5W less when iddle.

http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/biblioteca/analise/784/amd-a6-5200-kabini.html?pg=02

The old zacate plateform consume 31-34W when fully running
and 11W when iddle , this say that Kabini is grossly binned
and that whatever is not on spec at 1.5ghz will be deemed
2ghz with a very conservative TDP to fit them all...
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
And ofcource they are having a high price. Who wouldnt. Nobody in this world price their products by production cost. By "gorging",- didnt you mean profit maximising? - Is Intel "gorging" on 80% of their portfolio - i havnt heard you say that?

I'm not saying it's wrong. AMD is on the market to make money and they have a duty to their shareholders to charge the highest price they can to maximize their returns. What I'm saying is that Kabini seems much more expensive than Brazos, so either TSMC 28nm isn't as cheap as 40nm was when Brazos arrived, demand is really high for the chip or they want a smaller but more profitable market share for the chip. In any case, something is different. This is not Brazos 2.
 
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SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
According to the review that was made with a 850W PSU
wich is hardly a good set up but still we can see that
the 25W Kabini consume the same as a 18W E-350 when
running 3DMark and 5W less when iddle.

http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/biblioteca/analise/784/amd-a6-5200-kabini.html?pg=02

The old zacate plateform consume 31-34W when fully running
and 11W when iddle , this say that Kabini is grossly binned
and that whatever is not on spec at 1.5ghz will be deemed
2ghz with a very conservative TDP to fit them all...

power usage from mitx MB to MB can vary a lot, even using the same CPU... that was the case with the E-350 boards.

 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,868
136
power usage from mitx MB to MB can vary a lot, even using the same CPU... that was the case with the E-350 boards.

There will be far less variation with kabini since it s a full SoC....
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
There will be far less variation with kabini since it s a full SoC....

my point was, comparing a Kabini board with a E-350 board can be misleading if you have one of the extremes...
and E-350 was also always combined with the same "southbridge",
 

SiliconWars

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,346
0
0
What I'm saying is that Kabini seems much more expensive than Brazos, so either TSMC 28nm isn't as cheap as 40nm was when Brazos arrived, demand is really high for the chip or they want a smaller but more profitable market share for the chip. In any case, something is different. This is not Brazos 2.

I would assume that a smaller, more profitable share is what AMD will aim for. This is what they are doing with Richland and with so much being fabbed on 28nm at TSMC already it makes even more sense with Kabini, especially considering the difficulties the industry is experiencing.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,868
136
my point was, comparing a Kabini board with a E-350 board can be misleading if you have one of the extremes...
and E-350 was also always combined with the same "southbridge",

The E-350 loaded comsumption on the review i mentionned
is specified at 49W , far worse than any of the MBs you re
talking about and as i pointed this is due to the inadequate
850W PSU but still , the difference of 5W in iddle is relevant.

http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/biblioteca/analise/784/amd-a6-5200-kabini.html?pg=02

Indeed , if one looks further there s tests that show that what
is innefficient are the PSUs , not the APU , as we can see in
TR reviewof bobcat.






http://techreport.com/review/20401/amd-e-350-fusion-apu-on-the-desktop/5
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
I'm not saying it's wrong. AMD is on the market to make money and they have a duty to their shareholders to charge the highest price they can to maximize their returns. What I'm saying is that Kabini seems much more expensive than Brazos, so either TSMC 28nm isn't as cheap as 40nm was when Brazos arrived, demand is really high for the chip or they want a smaller but more profitable market share for the chip. In any case, something is different. This is not Brazos 2.

Brazos was like 74mm2 that equalled to aprox 800 per wafer. So yes it was cheaper, but i dont think that makes a difference if its 3 or 5 usd. Everything is on 28nm now. It is dirt cheap to make for the marginal cost. Hell even the fixed cost is way low as a team of 80 could assemble the ip for zakate in hydrabad and make it ready for production.
Zakate was expensive when it arived although this looks just a tad more so if i remember correctly. The first hp and lenovo wasbquite expensive as i recall. It will level off within the next half year.
There is still tons of zakate on the market and i guess they are ramping production. It could be that simple. There is no reason they will not flood the maket wit this as they did with zakate.
 

SiliconWars

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,346
0
0
There is no reason they will not flood the maket wit this as they did with zakate.

AMD has a lot of console chips to build and it's almost certain that they'll have bigger GPU's as well soon. TSMC has built more and more 28nm capacity but everybody wants it.

It's hard to tell how they'll split their wafer allocation.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
So you're basically showing that Kabini is still far too slow for any 1366x768 gaming (lowest laptop res) with modern titles. Let me help you posting a few more benchies.


The discussion was about the performance with single memory. The benchmarks you posted are irrelevant and nobody have ever said that you can play the latest AAA games with Kabini at HD resolution.

But,
With AMD A4-5000 and A6-5200 you get what you see in benchmarks. With Intel Celeron 1007U you dont know what performance you are getting because in 99% of the Laptops, OEMs use a single memory stick.

The performance of HD2500 with a single 1333MHz memory is pathetic.

Also,
Let me give you a number, 156
Thats the Games you can play for FREE on Kabini A4-5000 and A6-5200.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
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