First sighting of a Kabini mini-itx board

[SPBHM]

All is see is,

Core i5 4670K at 800MHz with DUAL HD7950 at 960MHz = 22fps
Core i5 4670K at 4900MHz with DUAL HD7950 at 960MHz = 104fps

Yeap, CF doesnt scale well with a CPU at 800MHz

CF is irrelevant, the game is simply to demanding for slow CPUs with higher settings,

to be fair it should be much better for the CPU with "level of detail" on low or medium, so Kabini might be able to play it decently with all on low, I know surface pro (ulv IB) can do that easily.

 

[Vesku]

My guess is that when prices settle the A4-5000 mini-itx boards will float around $100, the A6-5200 will be in premium boards in the $150-200 range and we might see E1 dual core kabinis in the sub $100 range.

Intel has been aggressive in selling Celeron 847s and 1007Us so we might actually get a bit of a price war when Bay Trail shows up.

 

[mrmt]

Brazos was like 74mm2 that equalled to aprox 800 per wafer. So yes it was cheaper, but i dont think that makes a difference if its 3 or 5 usd. Everything is on 28nm now. It is dirt cheap to make for the marginal cost. Hell even the fixed cost is way low as a team of 80 could assemble the ip for zakate in hydrabad and make it ready for production.

That's a fairy tale.

 

[krumme]

That's a fairy tale.

Ok because the high profile guys at austin thinks their help was absolutely nessessary in putting the ip together? (I know that f.....g satiesfied decadent western culture in comparison to asia - it will mean the death of many companies and already have)

We know for fact bobcat was highly profitable otherwise rr wouldnt praise it so much.
We know they are scaling up in hydrabad.
Fairy tale or not. Amd clearly shows it was a huge success and everything point to the same direction.

All ip collecting and getting ready for production will happen in low wage countries in the future 10 years from now. And after that most of the design.
Amd is forced to learn it. Intel will soon learn it.
An apu is not a car. The freight cost is next to zerro. Wages play a major part. And the lots of unskilled labor in the poor usa, can not make a difference here. Its not call center competences or manufactoring cars with machines and tools made in germany or japan.

 

[Vesku]

I think it's more along the lines of designs like Jaguar are only possible because they can draw from billions previously spent as well as access the general toolbox and knowledge base that is the companies main engineering offices.

Back when Bulldozer was first flopping around in retail there was a person who claimed to be an ex-AMD engineer blaming AMD's spending of money and time on improving the software generation of CPU components. Whether the entire story was true or not it does seem the part about AMD's time and money being spent on internal software development was indeed the case. Jaguar looks to be the first successful retail chip out of that initiative.

The gist is, AMD and Intel can't sell Jaguar and Atom for $10 a chip and declare 50+% gross margins because they can't magic away the rest of the company costs that makes those designs possible.

 

[mrmt]

Ok because the high profile guys at austin thinks their help was absolutely nessessary in putting the ip together? (I know that f.....g satiesfied decadent western culture in comparison to asia - it will mean the death of many companies and already have)

Nope, because Brazos was developed by a team far bigger than 80 and, guess, what, in Austin.

An apu is not a car. The freight cost is next to zerro. Wages play a major part. And the lots of unskilled labor in the poor usa, can not make a difference here. Its not call center competences or manufactoring cars with machines and tools made in germany or japan.

Freight cost near 0? Care to list this shipping company for us? Freight is far from 0. Sometimes freight costs *more* than the manufacturing cost itself, and that before insurance.

 

[drikkie]

Absolute freight costs ofcourse far from zero.
But per apu (you can load how many thousands in a 40foot container...)

Steel Box
The cost of moving a loaded forty-foot steel box to the West Coast from China was last at $1,824, from $1,418 on Dec. 16, Clarkson data show.

Random source for price

So that's probably only cents per APU you spend for moving it.

 

[mrmt]

Absolute freight costs ofcourse far from zero.
But per apu (you can load how many thousands in a 40foot container...)

That's just freight. There is insurance (which is ad valoren) on all stages of the process, the inbound and outbound freights to port, storage costs, handling, G&A expenses, etc. In the end the bill will be anything but marginal.

 

[NTMBK]

Kabini is simply a memory nerfed setup. Most likely in fear that it would canibalize the lowend Richland series.

To be honest, I think it's all about the cost. Fewer memory channels means fewer pins, which means a smaller (and cheaper) package and socket. Not to mention it also means fewer traces on the motherboard.

Kabini is all about acceptable performance at low cost, and it does very well at that.

 

[krumme]

Nope, because Brazos was developed by a team far bigger than 80 and, guess, what, in Austin.



Freight cost near 0? Care to list this shipping company for us? Freight is far from 0. Sometimes freight costs *more* than the manufacturing cost itself, and that before insurance.

Slected quoting, know the difference or just ignoring, because we have been over this before?:

The ip was assembled in Hydrabad with help from austin, and made ready for production. Bobcat cpu core is yes Austin. But zakate is apu with cpu core, gpu and io.


The cost price of freight have been shown (btw the opposite direction is more expensive). And yes they are only a part of the cost and only a minor part here. But do the napkin math yourself, - how much container do you really need for 100k apus lol, the freight cost for an apu is next to nothing in the grander sceme.


I also read your post in SA under the name nvidiot where you talk about the high cost for AMD. AMD have cost and many business failures but they are in no way related to kabini and production on TSMC.

Its solid business. So goes for the console deals. I dont know why you continue the Galego style one sided banging of AMD, no matter the subject. everything is just bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Be it a apu 2ghz quad core that can be made for 5 usd without practically any compettion or a server cpu lineup that is just plain bad business for the buyers.

 

[Abwx]

how much container do you really need for 100k apus lol, the freight cost for an apu is next to nothing in the grander sceme.

Actualy transportation cost Malaysia/USA using cargo planes
would be about 0.15$/APU or CPU fully packaged for retail sales.

 

[krumme]

Actualy transportation cost Malaysia/USA using cargo planes
would be about 0.15$/APU or CPU fully packaged for retail sales.

And how much for an oem solution after all kabini is sold as oem? Like 0.03$? And what about shipping like 0.001$ its not making a damn difference anyway.

I have seen shipping of several tons heavy tech equipment on plane from europe to asia. That did account for something but ttm does matter. But its not like kabini is suddenly an elephant and not a piece of silicon.

But perhaps they should use dealextreme next time if their freight cost is exploding

 

[Abwx]

The number i gave is for complete boxed CPUs but it cost
absolutely nothing to AMD since shipping costs are paid
by the customer , that s why i m wondering how one
could argument that it will eat in margin.

The only transportation costs AMD has to pay is the transfert
of waffers from...Taiwan to Malaysia at a cost that must be
peanuts given the low weight of 15 millions dies and the short
distance, well , perhaps 0.0001cts/APU.....

 

[krumme]

Sorry mrmt. No need to be that bitchy on you.

 

[mrmt]

Sorry mrmt. No need to be that bitchy on you.

No hard feelings.

 

[86waterpumper]

so how long before an actual kabini mini itx board is available? My parents want a new computer built, and i am planning to build them a small system. I already have a antec 300-150 isk bought. I was planning on using the gigabyte board with the 1007u in it till i saw this...but I would rather have a system such as this with usb 3.0 also. I know windows 8.1 is coming out in oct. maybe I need to hold off a month or two to build it.

 

[cyrusfox]

With Japan getting ECS release of two Kabini boards tomorrow, we should see similar offerings here in a matter of weeks. I am guessing initially offerings of Jaguar based motherboards starting in September with more premium boards making there way here in the states in October.

I know we are such a small slice of the market for AMD but I really wish motherboard makers and AMD would give this area a little more press. I have been searching a couple days a week about new kabini itx info since the product was launched(May 23rd). And so far I have only found one itx motherboard review, It's an asrock motherboard(use google translate), I believe it will end up being the ASRock KA5200-ITX. Boards are coming very soon, just not soon enough!

 

[krumme]

I think it's more along the lines of designs like Jaguar are only possible because they can draw from billions previously spent as well as access the general toolbox and knowledge base that is the companies main engineering offices.

Back when Bulldozer was first flopping around in retail there was a person who claimed to be an ex-AMD engineer blaming AMD's spending of money and time on improving the software generation of CPU components. Whether the entire story was true or not it does seem the part about AMD's time and money being spent on internal software development was indeed the case. Jaguar looks to be the first successful retail chip out of that initiative.

The gist is, AMD and Intel can't sell Jaguar and Atom for $10 a chip and declare 50+% gross margins because they can't magic away the rest of the company costs that makes those designs possible.

True but notice we talk about marginal cost. Marginal cost is the cost of producing just one extra apu.

The future is highly synthesized designs, where you share as many tools as possible. From design to end product. Tsmc does a lot of work here and devellops more and more software tools. In connection with the arm eco system its economical.

 

[monstercameron]

couldn't find any geekbench results for the a6-5200 but i managed to find the a6-1450. would the results scale decently with the clockspd?

Used the GB 3 32-bit Tryout and got this:

Acer Aspire V5-122
This result has been flagged as inaccurate.
Single-Core Score Multi-Core Score
Geekbench 3.0.2 Tryout for Windows x86 (32-bit)
758 2338

Acer Aspire V5-122
This result has been flagged as inaccurate.
Single-Core Score Multi-Core Score
Geekbench 3.0.2 Tryout for Windows x86 (32-bit)
772 2500
Result Information
Upload Date 2013-08-21
Views 1
System Information
Acer Aspire V5-122
Operating System Microsoft Windows 8 (64-bit)
Model Acer Aspire V5-122
Processor AMD A6-1450 APU with Radeon HD Graphics @ 1.00 GHz
1 processor, 4 cores
Processor ID AuthenticAMD Family 22 Model 0 Stepping 1
Processor Codename
Processor Package
L1 Instruction Cache 32 KB
L1 Data Cache 32 KB
L2 Cache 2048 KB
L3 Cache 0 KB
Motherboard Acer Aspire V5-122
Northbridge AMD ID1536 00
Southbridge AMD A55/A60M 11
BIOS Insyde Corp. V2.03
Memory 9670 MB -1MHz
Integer Performance
Integer 871
AES
Single-core 806
706.9 MB/sec

AES
Multi-core 1929
1.65 GB/sec

Twofish
Single-core 976
54.8 MB/sec

Twofish
Multi-core 3842
215.6 MB/sec

SHA1
Single-core 911
99.0 MB/sec

SHA1
Multi-core 3621
393.1 MB/sec

SHA2
Single-core 944
40.9 MB/sec

SHA2
Multi-core 3749
162.2 MB/sec

BZip2 Compress
Single-core 851
3.46 MB/sec

BZip2 Compress
Multi-core 3169
12.9 MB/sec

BZip2 Decompress
Single-core 892
4.84 MB/sec

BZip2 Decompress
Multi-core 3489
18.9 MB/sec

JPEG Compress
Single-core 928
12.9 Mpixels/sec

JPEG Compress
Multi-core 3672
51.2 Mpixels/sec

JPEG Decompress
Single-core 972
24.0 Mpixels/sec

JPEG Decompress
Multi-core 3812
94.3 Mpixels/sec

PNG Compress
Single-core 803
641.3 Kpixels/sec

PNG Compress
Multi-core 3149
2.51 Mpixels/sec

PNG Decompress
Single-core 841
9.70 Mpixels/sec

PNG Decompress
Multi-core 3225
37.2 Mpixels/sec

Sobel
Single-core 781
28.4 Mpixels/sec

Sobel
Multi-core 3003
109.3 Mpixels/sec

Lua
Single-core 825
759.7 KB/sec

Lua
Multi-core 3170
2.85 MB/sec

Dijkstra
Single-core 835
3.00 Mpairs/sec

Dijkstra
Multi-core 2372
8.51 Mpairs/sec

Floating Point Performance
Floating Point 696
BlackScholes
Single-core 771
3.43 Mnodes/sec

BlackScholes
Multi-core 2881
12.8 Mnodes/sec

Mandelbrot
Single-core 1200
1.23 Gflops

Mandelbrot
Multi-core 4676
4.79 Gflops

Sharpen Filter
Single-core 648
480.8 Mflops

Sharpen Filter
Multi-core 2564
1.90 Gflops

Blur Filter
Single-core 584
556.7 Mflops

Blur Filter
Multi-core 2281
2.17 Gflops

SGEMM
Single-core 574
1.61 Gflops

SGEMM
Multi-core 2291
6.42 Gflops

DGEMM
Single-core 577
847.8 Mflops

DGEMM
Multi-core 2055
3.02 Gflops

SFFT
Single-core 688
726.3 Mflops

SFFT
Multi-core 2752
2.90 Gflops

DFFT
Single-core 592
539.9 Mflops

DFFT
Multi-core 2187
1.99 Gflops

N-Body
Single-core 666
247.6 Kpairs/sec

N-Body
Multi-core 2646
982.2 Kpairs/sec

Ray Trace
Single-core 849
1.00 Mpixels/sec

Ray Trace
Multi-core 3194
3.77 Mpixels/sec

Memory Performance
Memory 730
Stream Copy
Single-core 753
3.01 GB/sec

Stream Copy
Multi-core 773
3.09 GB/sec

Stream Scale
Single-core 736
2.94 GB/sec

Stream Scale
Multi-core 771
3.08 GB/sec

Stream Add
Single-core 712
3.22 GB/sec

Stream Add
Multi-core 759
3.43 GB/sec

Stream Triad
Single-core 722
3.17 GB/sec

Stream Triad
Multi-core 777
3.42 GB/sec

 

[Vesku]

There is this, somewhat limited, review: http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/biblioteca/analise/784/amd-a6-5200-kabini.html

 

[krumme]

There is this, somewhat limited, review: http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/biblioteca/analise/784/amd-a6-5200-kabini.html

Same as discussed here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35371021

 

[bartgrefte]

Any news yet on availability outside of Japan?