First time Plasma owner

[tinpanalley]

I'm waiting for my first ever flat screen to be delivered to me. It's a plasma Samsung H4500.
As I've never owned a plasma before, I've often read here and there about certain things that you should do with a new one when it's first purchased. Displaying a certain pattern, etc. So I have a few questions if anyone can help me out...
1. Is there some series of steps/procedures that I should go through to properly set up my new TV?
2. I've always calibrated all my previous TVs (CRT HDs) with my Avia DVD. Can I continue to do that or is there some new DVD that works better?
3. It's really important to me to have a properly calibrated TV as I not only keep a high quality collection of mostly classic films but I also tend to use my TV as a screening monitor for my independent film work. That being said, I can't afford to have someone calibrate it professionaly. Is there some affordable device I can buy that will calibrate my new plasma and my IPS LED PC monitor?

Thanks to anyone that can help me get my feet wet with this.

 

[Hinda65]

First off, I'm no expert, but I did just get the Samsung 60F5300. I went to AVS Forums and found a thread with 3 different sets of settings that folks had calibrated their sets with.....I ended up just using the first one I tried cause it looked so good.

I read somewhere you are suppose to calibrate plasmas after they ran for 100hrs? Didn't do that. I did however, cover up the only window in the room my TV is located...luckily, it's my basement and it's real dark down there. The 5300 really shows reflections, I can see why so many people return them....they don't realize they need to be in a dark setting.

Anyways, sorry I can't help more with the calibration but I will say I couldn't be happier with this plasma and I'm sooo glad I decided to wait on 4k.

 

[Raincity]

Set it in movie mode for now and avoid content with letterboxing, ticker boxes, and static stations ID's for awhile until you put some hours on the set. Usually 100 hours is a good place to start. Then go ahead and set your brightness and contrast with a test disc. You should also check the overscan to make sure your blu ray player is outputting 24P correctly. I would also scrap the old Avia disc and use the free AVS calibration disc or spring for the WOW or Spears and Munsil calibration disc. I found that the color and tint are pretty much spot on right out of the box with the new Samsung plasmas after setting them into the warm 2 setting. You can get it better doing your own calibration with a low end meter like the X-Rite I1 pro and using free HCFR or Calman basic not free for the calibration.

 

[olds]

I ran some slides for a little over 100 hours. Then I tried some settings from AVS Forums. I eventually ran my set up disk, don't recall which one of the top of my head.
I do get image retention but I use the plasma for the internet too. Chrome.

 

[Hinda65]

You should also check the overscan to make sure your blu ray player is outputting 24P correctly.

could you explain how to check this?

 

[Raincity]

could you explain how to check this?

Use a overscan test pattern on the calibration disc to check if the player and display are doing 1.1 pixel mapping correctly.

 

[TheUnk]

Do not allow Cartoon Network to be watched for any extended period of time.

Their black/white logo causes burn-in. My Panasonic only a couple years old has a permanent CN logo. While not noticeable most of the time, it becomes clearly visible with certain colors.

 

[poofyhairguy]

could you explain how to check this?

Enable Cinema Smooth. Then you get proper 24p support. That model has it.

For breaking in and calibrating: run for 100 hours to break it in. Then get a Disney WOW disc for cheap calibration. Or get the THX app on your smartphone to do a little better.

I say this as an owner of three modern (since 2010) plasmas.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Use a overscan test pattern on the calibration disc to check if the player and display are doing 1.1 pixel mapping correctly.

That is how you check spatial resolution. Temporal resolution (aka playing back in a setting that can be divided by 24 and not stuck at 60fps like 99% of people's TVs) is only fixed on Samsung's by enabling Cinema Smooth.

 

[Raincity]

All Cinema smooth does on my Sammy 8500 and 5300 is convert 24P to 96 fps to avoid judder. The only difference between the two is the 8500 does it better. I had to enable just scan in the menu instead of 16.9 that scaled all video to fit the screen but the pixel mapping was incorrect. All three of my test discs confirmed this.

 

[poofyhairguy]

All Cinema smooth does on my Sammy 8500 and 5300 is convert 24P to 96 fps to avoid judder.

The word "all" feels so out of place there. The fact that current Samsung plasmas can properly take a 24p source is a modern miracle that the majority of plasmas (and heck LED/LCDs) ever sold never had the benefit of doing. I mean just fit matters too for the same reason I want to scream at people that stretch 4:3 content into 16:9, but getting rid of 3:2 pulldown is the moment you actually get the full experience of HD content.

To me the FLOOR of "I am watching a movie properly" is:

1. A TV that can handle a 24p source correctly getting fed that source correctly with the right settings

2. A 5.1 surround system

If you don't have both save the TV for reality shows/Netflix and go see your movies in a theater IMHO...

 

[Raincity]

I get it with your displeasure with 3.2 but my point is that the Samsung menu is misleading and you need to enable just scan if you want to watch your content from your cable/SAT/net box correctly. Cinema Smooth is only an option with 24P sources.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Playing stuff back at 24p can also induce other problems that are annoying in their own way but not fixable. Watch Casino Royal when they are at the card table and dealing for the first time. The camera pans across the table and everything becomes a blurry stuttering mess at 24p.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Playing stuff back at 24p can also induce other problems that are annoying in their own way but not fixable. Watch Casino Royal when they are at the card table and dealing for the first time. The camera pans across the table and everything becomes a blurry stuttering mess at 24p.

Artifacts like that and in particular that scene completely depends on the implementation of the 24p mode. The answer is not to accept 3:2 pulldown, that is the devil, the answer is to seek out a solution to the problem created on the source side. Many times this sort of "stuttering mess" is mostly "fixable," or at least proposed solutions exist.

The issue at hand is that the 24fps simply isn't enough to cover the action. No one complains about seeing that in the theater because the high-end projector (that I promise you would NEVER do 3:2 pulldown) triples those frames to be 96fps which makes the scene PERFECTLY smooth. This is compared to a 120hz tv that simply plays the 24 frames as they divide into 120 perfectly (while 96hz does not). It is basically the same concept of playing a game at 24 FPS and its crap, while at 90+ fps its buttery smooth.

The "fix" for this in the 120hz/240hz LED/LCD world is interpolation, aka "The Soap Opera Effect." They didn't create the effect to make things look like a Soap Opera, they made it because once 120hz TV were released they needed a way to interpolate those 24 frames into either 30 or 60 frames (which both divide into 120 unlike 96hz) in order to hide the "stuttering mess." Because 24 doesn't go into 30 (which is the FPS of most Soap Operas BTW which is why it looks like that) or 60 naturally the tv basically guesses the frames that would be there. This "fixes" the problem enough that they just starting calling the options the 120hz modes and such (which of course confuses consumers).

But interpolation is not the best answer. Those frame guesses aren't perfect, which creates artifacts and a "too real" effect that can ruin some content. That is not across the board though, implementations of interpolation differ and some companies like Toshiba and Sony do the best job by guessing less and instead inserting blank frames (a page out of Thomas Edison's book) when possible. But no matter the implementation, nothing one of the 120hz LEDs/LCDs can do can match the projector simply tripling the fps to 96Hz.

And that is yet another reason plasma kicks ass. My Panasonic Plasma ST60 has a similar 96hz setting and if I watch that scene (or ANY scene where you might see it fall apart on a LED without interpolation) it looks as smooth as butter with no artifacts. Samsung plasma have the same setting with Cinema Smooth. Both implementations have flaws - the Panasonic sometimes has a slight flickering and the Cinema Smooth raises the black level- but even with those flaws both are better than anything a LED can do. Only a home projector can do it better.

Progress has been made on the LED side with the 480hz models, as that can be easily divided by 96hz. But true 480hz TVs are few and far between, most that are advertised that way are 240hz plus interpolation (which is their twisted tv marketing minds means "double the hz.").

 

[Hinda65]

Enable Cinema Smooth. Then you get proper 24p support. That model has it.

For breaking in and calibrating: run for 100 hours to break it in. Then get a Disney WOW disc for cheap calibration. Or get the THX app on your smartphone to do a little better.

I say this as an owner of three modern (since 2010) plasmas.

Any Idea why my Film Mode is Greyed out (unavailable) Cinema smooth is located there so I cant access it.



thanks

 

[poofyhairguy]

Any Idea why my Film Mode is Greyed out (unavailable) Cinema smooth is located there so I cant access it.



thanks

It has to be fed a 24p source for that mode to be available. Them once you set it every time you feed it a 24p source it kicks in.

 

[tinpanalley]

Enable Cinema Smooth. Then you get proper 24p support. That model has it.
For breaking in and calibrating: run for 100 hours to break it in. Then get a Disney WOW disc for cheap calibration. Or get the THX app on your smartphone to do a little better.
I say this as an owner of three modern (since 2010) plasmas.

Cool, thanks for the tip.
Just some questions..
1. Is there a definitive way to check for full 24p output on my PS3 which I use for bluray? I'm really interested in all this 24p stuff. Very interesting and I definitely want to know I'm getting the correct image from my video content.
2. Do I need to concern myself with full 24p output on my Boxee where not everything I watch is HD?
3. Is a DVD with slides better for breaking in than just watching 100-150 hours of TV without any static graphics and black bars? Or are they essentially the same?

 

[Raincity]

1 There is a button on the remote that will tell you what your device is outputting to the HDMI ports on the set.

2 Does the Boxee output a 1080P 24 signal ? I would not worry about it.

3 Running slides just help age the panel evenly that helps aid in getting the color space in line if your doing a full calibration with a meter. The color and tint is pretty close to reference right out of the box after setting it to movie mode , warm 2 then nock the gamma down to -1. I would not mess the color controls unless you have a meter and ready to do a full 10 point grayscale calibration. I would adjust the brightness and contrast to your rooms lighting conditions and then check for the black levels and colors for clipping. If that's good then just enjoy it. Along with the expense of a meter and software. Doing a full grayscale and color space calibration is going to eat up alot of your time and may want to read up on it first at AVS and Curtplame.

 

[tinpanalley]

1 There is a button on the remote that will tell you what your device is outputting to the HDMI ports on the set.

Ok, it's just that all the talk about having problems with smoothness and incorrect aspect ratio concern me and I want to know I'm getting things right.

3 Running slides just help age the panel evenly that helps aid in getting the color space in line if your doing a full calibration with a meter. The color and tint is pretty close to reference right out of the box after setting it to movie mode , warm 2 then nock the gamma down to -1. I would not mess the color controls unless you have a meter and ready to do a full 10 point grayscale calibration. I would adjust the brightness and contrast to your rooms lighting conditions and then check for the black levels and colors for clipping. If that's good then just enjoy it. Along with the expense of a meter and software. Doing a full grayscale and color space calibration is going to eat up alot of your time and may want to read up on it first at AVS and Curtplame.

I will actually be using a meter, the AVS DVD and HCFR to calibrate when the time comes.

 

[Raincity]

The AVS calibration disk has a overscan test pattern. You will see if the settings are wrong with it. If your going to do a full calibration. Runs slides for 100 hours then set the brightness and contrast level. Then use the set running full screen material for another 200 hours. Then the panel should be ready for the 10 point and color space calibration.

 

[tinpanalley]

Runs slides for 100 hours then set the brightness and contrast level. Then use the set running full screen material for another 200 hours. Then the panel should be ready for the 10 point and color space calibration.

- I still don't get whether during the first 150 hours, I can just leave it at Movie-Warm2 or not. If not, then what? User and Neutral?
- Any specific pack/DVD of slides that everyone uses?
- I haven't come across any lists of calibration steps that included 10 point. I'm not questioning you at all, I just feel like ..sigh.. there's another thing I didn't know was necessary. The videos on the AVSHD disc certainly don't mention it. Not saying they're the ultimate authority, just saying...

EDIT: You know, on second thought, I've been asking enough questions and I'm probably getting to the inevitable forum point where someone attacks you for not reading enough. The thing is, I have read a lot but reading involves several variations from different time periods of what is the method for doing things and forums aren't exactly known for their intuitive archiving standards. I'll go read some more.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Cool, thanks for the tip.
Just some questions..
1. Is there a definitive way to check for full 24p output on my PS3 which I use for bluray? I'm really interested in all this 24p stuff. Very interesting and I definitely want to know I'm getting the correct image from my video content.
2. Do I need to concern myself with full 24p output on my Boxee where not everything I watch is HD?
3. Is a DVD with slides better for breaking in than just watching 100-150 hours of TV without any static graphics and black bars? Or are they essentially the same?

1. If you get the cinema smooth option its working. You can also check by hitting the info button on the TV when content is playing. 24p is a big deal, its how movies were meant to be seen and is our liberation from the NTSC standard that butchered TV content for decades.

2. General rule is if its HD, care about 24p.

3. Yeah its the same, as long as the content is all 16:9 (so no movies, gaming, channels like espn, old TV shows, etc) for the first 100 hours.

 

[Raincity]

Just turn down brightness to avoid image retention in the beginning . It does not matter with the settings when running the slides. The purpose to excite all the phosphors in the panel in the beginning stage of life of the panel IE the first 100 hours. Here is a link with more info http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...w-properly-break-your-new-plasma-display.html

Here is more info on 10 point grayscale calibration http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322


If you have an hour and half to kill watch this video and it will help putting the pieces together with video calibration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWd8qs9YAk

Also consider purchasing Calman 5 basic. HCFR is very capable but I found it cumbersome with the process, Calman streamlines the whole process and saves a lot of time. Well worth the $150 in my opinion.

 

[tinpanalley]

It does not matter with the settings when running the slides. The purpose to excite all the phosphors in the panel in the beginning stage of life of the panel IE the first 100 hours.

Ok, so technically the TV could be on brightness 0 and the phosphors would still be working according to the signal they're receiving from the slides? Doesn't seem to make sense to me.

If you have an hour and half to kill watch this video and it will help putting the pieces together with video calibration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWd8qs9YAk

This is great! Any way that this would vary for my plasma or are the practices basically the same?

 

[Raincity]

Ok, so technically the TV could be on brightness 0 and the phosphors would still be working according to the signal they're receiving from the slides? Doesn't seem to make sense to me.

This is great! Any way that this would vary for my plasma or are the practices basically the same?

Just bring down the brightness some to avoid image retention in the beginning. You don't need to shut it off. If your dedicating the first 100 hours to running slides then it wont make any difference. If your planning to watch letterbox material or television in the first 100 hours then use some common sense and not have anything with a static image or letterboxing up for too long. All the practices in calibration are the same. I own both the Samsung 8500 and three 5300 plasmas. I have found that using warm2 and lowering gamma to -1 has been universal on all three sets. In the video both Robert and Scott state that the contrast, brightness, color and tint settings are pretty close right out of the box in movie mode. I also found the same with all three of my Sammy plasmas. Do read up on the subject. Its not as easy as it looks, a lot of time with trial and error is needed in the beginning. These new Sammy plasmas are within 10% of reference out of the box after changing a couple of settings. Tweaking with a I1 pro will get you within 2% of reference.