Florida High School Shooting

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,532
15,413
136
Neither did the gun in that picture. Or any other gun.

Yep, without guns bullets would simply magically fly through the air ripping through flesh and killing their targets instantly as a fairy dust shockwave reverberates through the air.


We get it, guns don't kill people, people kill people...except guns allow people to kill many more people quicker than any other easily available object, including cars. There is a reason humans have gone from using stones to guns to kill people, are you smart enough to figure out why that is?
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z
Jan 25, 2011
16,694
8,896
146
An example of the messages kids today were sending their parents from school.

This is the new normal for kids going to school.

 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
You don't need an AR-15 to hunt, you don't need one for self defense, what do you need one for?

The gun nutters dream of a war against their own government and its military. Silly fucks think the macho guns are a match for tanks, guided missiles, apache attack choppers, etc... This is not hyperbole, this is their reality.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,266
13,568
146
Can people really buy this legally in the US?
No one can claim that thing is for animal hunting.
It looks 'scary' because it's black and has doodads all over it, but realistically speaking there's no difference between that and any other large game hunting weapon (aka not fowl or squirrel). A barrel change can make it appropriate from anything from a whitetail to a moose or bear, and anything in between (human included, unfortunately).

Don't get bent out of shape because male machismo creates a vacuum for 'military-style' guns. This shooter could have done something as devastating (or near enough) with cheap crap from Wal-Mart.

Please note that i'm not advocating for gun violence or anything asinine like that, just pointing out that focusing on a specific weapon type that doesn't launch explosive rounds is fruitless since the way a gun 'looks' has very little bearing on its performance in the arena of killing children. As such, targeting any form of legislation against them specifically is fruitless, feel-good trash legislation.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
It's a complex question with difficult answers


Regarding forgetting, as a point of discussion & not to be insensitive, but what else are you supposed to do, realistically? I live a couple towns over from Newtown, where that awful shooting took place. When you're not directly involved or affected, what's the next step, over time? And not just that, but there's an endless string of awful events that have happened in our country: Columbine, 9/11, Newtown, Vegas, etc., plus the insane Chicago statistics. It is, unfortunately, commonplace in modern America. So the question is really, what should the answer be? And right now, at least, that's an impossible question to answer.

Connecticut passed some of the toughest gun safety and control laws following Newtown,
http://wnpr.org/post/whats-been-impact-connecticuts-gun-laws-after-sandy-hook
Homicide rates by gun dropped from 92 to 56 in 2016.
CT has one of the lowest death by gun rates in the country.
https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Connecticut-among-lowest-states-for-gun-deaths-12504426.php

But then again, we can go with thoughts and prayers.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
It looks 'scary' because it's black and has doodads all over it, but realistically speaking there's no difference between that and any other large game hunting weapon (aka not fowl or squirrel). A barrel change can make it appropriate from anything from a whitetail to a moose or bear, and anything in between (human included, unfortunately).

Don't get bent out of shape because male machismo creates a vacuum for 'military-style' guns. This shooter could have done something as devastating (or near enough) with cheap crap from Wal-Mart.

Please note that i'm not advocating for gun violence or anything asinine like that, just pointing out that focusing on a specific weapon type that doesn't launch explosive rounds is fruitless since the way a gun 'looks' has very little bearing on its performance in the arena of killing children. As such, targeting any form of legislation against them specifically is fruitless, feel-good trash legislation.

A gun that has magazines that can hold 30 to 100 rounds has very little in common with a hunting rifle.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,981
8,025
136
The gun nutters dream of a war against their own government and its military. Silly fucks think the macho guns are a match for tanks, guided missiles, apache attack choppers, etc... This is not hyperbole, this is their reality.

That part is true though. They are more than a match because in those scenarios you employ the tactics found in the Middle East, only its our own backyard so when the infrastructure goes down so does the military networking and logistics. Only retards not worth mentioning would think they're joining some battlefield and winning. It's resistance, terrorism, and guerilla tactics to wear an opponent down, where being armed and dangerous is the first step towards that.

Hell, when it comes down to it drones are nothing more than a guided missile. Every year more of those are in everyone's hands.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,694
8,896
146
It looks 'scary' because it's black and has doodads all over it, but realistically speaking there's no difference between that and any other large game hunting weapon (aka not fowl or squirrel). A barrel change can make it appropriate from anything from a whitetail to a moose or bear, and anything in between (human included, unfortunately).

Don't get bent out of shape because male machismo creates a vacuum for 'military-style' guns. This shooter could have done something as devastating (or near enough) with cheap crap from Wal-Mart.

Please note that i'm not advocating for gun violence or anything asinine like that, just pointing out that focusing on a specific weapon type that doesn't launch explosive rounds is fruitless since the way a gun 'looks' has very little bearing on its performance in the arena of killing children. As such, targeting any form of legislation against them specifically is fruitless, feel-good trash legislation.
Now help me understand something. What cheap crap from Walmart would have allowed the Vegas shooter to do what he did? What other than the high capacity 100 round magazines and bump stock modifications would have allowed him to shoot over 600 people from hundreds of yards away?

All these other options and yet he still chose 14 AR-15s and 7 AR-10s. Or was that only because they looked scary? Not really a functional, tactical choice?
 
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Reactions: bshole

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,932
9,218
136
So the shooter got kicked out of school? Students at the school are saying "everyone knew it was him" and "we all thought he might do something like this"??

Sounds like these classmates and school administrators had it out for him. I'm pretty sure he was just standing his ground.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Neither did the gun in that picture. Or any other gun.
The poor gun. Taking heat just for existing. You think it's taking it personally? Ya think it'll ever recover from the psychological abuse?

Shut up you Fu*king bullies! Guns have feelings too!
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,932
9,218
136
Now help me understand something. What cheap crap from Walmart would have allowed the Vegas shooter to do what he did? What other than the high capacity 100 round magazines and bump stock modifications would have allowed him to shoot over 600 people from hundreds of yards away?

All these other options and yet he still chose 14 AR-15s and 7 AR-10s. Or was that only because they looked scary? Not really a functional, tactical choice?

Speaking of bump stocks...whatever happened to the bump stock ban bill?? Seriously, what happened? Didn't the NRA actually come out in favor of banning bump stocks in the wake of the Vegas shooting? Weren't Republicans working on that bill? It was the hollowest of empty gestures to "do something" about guns...and the bill DISAPPEARED. Seriously, we couldn't even get bump stocks done??

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bumpstock-ban-20180212-story.html
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Speaking of bump stocks...whatever happened to the bump stock ban bill?? Seriously, what happened? Didn't the NRA actually come out in favor of banning bump stocks in the wake of the Vegas shooting? Weren't Republicans working on that bill? It was the hollowest of empty gestures to "do something" about guns...and the bill DISAPPEARED. Seriously, we couldn't even get bump stocks done??

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bumpstock-ban-20180212-story.html
But then the NRA changed their minds. Or that's the latest I remember hearing on the subject.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Ok, so let's look at this. Tobacco kills something like 15x as many people as guns. Nothing at all is being done to further reduce that. You guys claim the conversation has been had on tobacco, and stop gaps put in place to reduce smoking. Good, it is still 15x more deadly than guns. If we're willing to live with that and leave it at that, then you can stay hands off my gun rights.

The rate of smoking has been cut in half over the past 40 years.

You're full of crap.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens.

US is 4.4% of the world's population. We own 42% of the world's firearms. We commit 31% of the world's mass shootings. Only the single country of Yemen has more mass shootings per capita.

The notion that those facts are all causally unrelated is utterly absurd.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
As many of you know I am one of the few left leaning people that post here that carry. I usually stay out of these threads... but they are getting so frequent I can't and won't avoid them any longer. Yes I carry a handgun. I hunt with a bolt action rifle. I have a Mossberg should anyone try and test my affection for the few things I have been able to amass in my life and remove them from my home. However...

I cannot find any situation in my life nor any scenario short of a zombie apocalypse where my A, B, or C options would have failed to protect me nor aided my hunt. Fortunately I have never been in a situation where I have needed an AR-15 nor do I think I ever will EXCEPT maybe to fend myself from some gun nut fucktard using one on me or my family.

Banning them now seems moot since just about every nut out there now has one or more because of course............ Obama. What is it they called him, the Gun Salesman-in-Chief...

Anyhow, fuck it. I'm on board. This shit happens no place on earth other than here. That's no coincidence. That's 'Merica...
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,705
1,231
136
Gun control might work elsewhere, it won't ever work in America.

Criminal mindset: {Gun-free hotels, festivals, schools, etc. Oh boy can't wait to take my firearm into a gun-free zone. I am such a criminal, teehee~ <3 . }
Upgrading that to where everything and everyone is supposed to be gun-free is an awful thing. It would be tyrannical to even have a government to put into place. Supporting criminal elements over the citizenry, what idiots.

The police are not well suited to stopping a criminal in action. They really are only there for the aftermath.

It would be more effective to switch to cyptocurrency-infused/supported communism than to ban guns. At least then everyone would get free universal healthcare and unlimited access to education, yeesh.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,227
5,804
126
The poor gun. Taking heat just for existing. You think it's taking it personally? Ya think it'll ever recover from the psychological abuse?

Shut up you Fu*king bullies! Guns have feelings too!

All guns should be gathered together, then set free to roam in some isolated wilderness. We must end their abuse by crazy people.
 
Reactions: Younigue

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
All guns should be gathered together, then set free to roam in some isolated wilderness. We must end their abuse by crazy people.
LOL, thank you for the laugh!

And may poachers be treated to the same end those lions gave their potential poacher.

A group of cats are a pride. What would you call guns when they group together in the wild?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,696
5,447
136
Connecticut passed some of the toughest gun safety and control laws following Newtown,
http://wnpr.org/post/whats-been-impact-connecticuts-gun-laws-after-sandy-hook
Homicide rates by gun dropped from 92 to 56 in 2016.
CT has one of the lowest death by gun rates in the country.
https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Connecticut-among-lowest-states-for-gun-deaths-12504426.php

But then again, we can go with thoughts and prayers.

First, there's been quite a bit of debate on that particular study. Here's a good starting point:

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/24/5-questions-about-the-new-study-purporti

Also: "Connecticut crime report: Murders down a lot, violent crime up a bit"

https://ctmirror.org/2017/09/25/connecticut-crime-report-murders-down-a-lot-violent-crime-up-a-bit/
There were 78 murders in 2016 in Connecticut, down from 115 the previous year. That’s the lowest number of murders since 1969. The number of murders fluctuates quite a bit in any given year.

Second, I do think we need to take more action than we are now, rather than just "hoping" things will get better, but it needs to be the appropriate action, not just a knee-jerk response, which is why I said it's a complex question with difficult answers (or rather, vice-versa - it's a difficult . For starters, lots of people already have guns - what do we do about that?

http://wnpr.org/post/whats-been-impact-connecticuts-gun-laws-after-sandy-hook
“It's about 250,000 people in our state of 3.7 million inhabitants and so it's a relatively small minority who are law abiding citizens who have guns,” Lawlor said. “And the right to own guns is protected by our state constitution and as long as people act responsibly, they'll be able to enjoy that right for as long as they choose to.”

So in Connecticut alone, we have a quarter million people with legally-purchased firearms. What happens if just one of those people decides to use them? Or if someone close to them decides to use them? Adam Lanza used his mother's legally-purchased weapons at Sandy Hook. Laws have improved somewhat since then, but per the recent article above:
But gun violence prevention advocates, as they like to be called, might disagree. Ron Pinciaro said while they got most of what they wanted as far as gun legislation, he wanted to go further. “The one thing as far as what we did get that we didn’t get completely was we wanted all assault weapons removed from the state immediately upon passage of the bill,” he said. The problem is that government can’t take property without giving compensation. And, he says, the state certainly wasn’t going to pay for all the guns they’d have to take.

So how do we manage the right to own guns? What about illegal guns? What about 3D-printed guns? What about people who use other weapons - knives, bombs, etc.? It's a complex question with difficult answers. I definitely don't think we should give up on working on the problem, but as long as people have access to weapons and get angry, bad things will continue to happen, which is awful, and is also a really difficult problem not only to solve but also to manage. So my post was more of a discussion point in response to all of the people in the media who (understandably) want a magical answer to human-based violence...whereas in countries where guns are hard to get, they just use other means of destruction. It's a really hard problem to deal with.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,981
8,025
136
So how do we manage the right to own guns? What about illegal guns?

Strip it as a right.

First, balm the second amendment with bolt action rifles. Redirect it as granting you a right to those sort of firearms.
But rapid fire / semi automatics? We make those a privilege accessible to only trained professionals who are screened.
We prevent the sale and transfer. It won't make a large difference at first, but each decade that passes it'll filter out more ownership.
But most importantly, crazies like this !@#$ won't be able to just run to a store and fulfill his dream of mass murder.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,696
5,447
136
But most importantly, crazies like this !@#$ won't be able to just run to a store and fulfill his dream of mass murder.

Yeah, but people like Adam Lanza and Stephen Paddock spent a lot of time learning how to use their weapons...they didn't just waltz into Cabella's, buy some gear, and then go on a shooting spree, you know?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,981
8,025
136
Yeah, but people like Adam Lanza and Stephen Paddock spent a lot of time learning how to use their weapons...they didn't just waltz into Cabella's, buy some gear, and then go on a shooting spree, you know?

That's why it's a compromise. It takes time to feel the full effects. When a generation has grown up and been unable to largely purchase or own these rapid fire weapons, then their children won't be able to just walk in and take them either. Someone like Paddock would hopefully be caught up in the training and screening process. And by screening I mean they go back every 4 years or so for evaluation. It's a privilge, not a right to step beyond bolt action.

That's the best way to address it. Without confiscations, but with some immediate benefit and more serious ramifications down the road.
 
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