Florida High School Shooting

[Darwin333]

Do you have a link to a psychologist testifying that he was not a danger? I see that social services did an investigation, but I did not know that a psychologist was involved.

I thought I read somewhere that he either attempted or threatened suicide and was then evaluated by a shrink.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Do you have a link to a psychologist testifying that he was not a danger? I see that social services did an investigation, but I did not know that a psychologist was involved.

Apparently I was wrong about that (or at least I can't find it referenced now). I might be confusing him with Adam Lanza, who he has a surprising number of similarities with.

 

[Maxima1]

Obviously a rifle round has more energy but getting shot with a handgun will make you just as dead. Even a nonfatal wound could easily incapacitate the shooter or at the very least slow him down. Self defense rounds for handguns are quite effective.

Just as dead? No. You're more likely to survive a handgun wound(s) because a rifle cartridge has a bigger wound channel (the energy has to go somewhere). As for your second statement, I was just giving out the ballistic data to someone skeptical of the 3x times as fast claim. Don't know why you thought I was commenting on shooting the shooter?

 

[UNCjigga]

Anyone watching this "meeting" with the President on gun control/protecting schools? NRA must be shitting bricks with some of POTUS' verbal diarrhea. I expect SHS will walk back anything the President says shortly...

 

[realibrad]

That is very true but I was talking specifically about the officer who has the training to overcome the fight or flight and has the means to effectively fight back.

That is what I am saying though. Even with training, some people just freeze. People in the military do it too, and their training is much better. Sometimes things deep down just take over. Horribly sad in this case, because he may have had a chance to reduce the damage. I can fee both sympathy and anger for what he did.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong with your comment, just that if I understood what you said correctly, then I disagree.

 

[realibrad]

Apparently I was wrong about that (or at least I can't find it referenced now). I might be confusing him with Adam Lanza, who he has a surprising number of similarities with.

There was an evaluation done by a mental healthy facility, but I cant tell if it was done by someone at that level. If so, then this seems even worse.

 

[soundforbjt]

Anyone watching this "meeting" with the President on gun control/protecting schools? NRA must be shitting bricks with some of POTUS' verbal diarrhea. I expect SHS will walk back anything the President says shortly...

As soon as Trump said he didn’t want people with mental health issues to have guns, Grassley shit his pants.
Now Blackburn is trashing movies, Trump doubles down on his ratings system for them....he doesn’t know ...

 

[TheVrolok]

As soon as Trump said he didn’t want people with mental health issues to have guns, Grassley shit his pants.
Now Blackburn is trashing movies, Trump doubles down on his ratings system for them....he doesn’t know ...

But Baron watches terrible things!

 

[soundforbjt]

But Baron watches terrible things!

He ( trump)needs to keep his bedroom door shut...

 

[vi edit]

And Chuck Grassley shakes his cane at those bad people in Hollywood.

Good grief you can actually hear him grow older by the day.

I wonder if Chuck knows that a member of this very Cabinet is a Hollywood producer and responsible for some of these movies.

 

[soundforbjt]

Did anyone catch early in, Cornyn saying to Trump about talking in private later?

 

[SMOGZINN]

There was an evaluation done by a mental healthy facility, but I cant tell if it was done by someone at that level. If so, then this seems even worse.

It probably was done by someone of that level, but as of right now they are keeping it confidential due to an ongoing case and patient confidentiality. We will know more once he has been executed.

 

[realibrad]

It probably was done by someone of that level, but as of right now they are keeping it confidential due to an ongoing case and patient confidentiality. We will know more once he has been executed.

It just seems like so many things failed here.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I heard an interesting comment on the radio. Sorry if it’s been reported.
A big investment company had a talk with some of the boards of gun companies and gun supply sellers. They said it’s time to consider things that were inconsiderable in the past to preserve what they have and potentially open up new growth opportunities regarding smart locks, gun tracking systems and enhanced background checks otherwise the decision will be made for them.
The big finance guys aren’t happy with all the bridges the NRA are burning and said if you don’t voluntarily change, we’ll just vote a new board in that will be open to change.
Funny how it all comes back to money.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Here ya go.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Apparently I was wrong about that (or at least I can't find it referenced now). I might be confusing him with Adam Lanza, who he has a surprising number of similarities with.

This might be what you were thinking of

Florida mental health agency examined Cruz in 2016, didn’t hospitalize him

"Crisis workers from a South Florida mental health facility were called in 2016 to hold alleged gunman Nikolas Cruz for a psychiatric evaluation after he sent out a Snapchat video in which he cut his arms and said he wanted to buy a gun, according to a mental health report.

But after speaking with Cruz, Henderson Behavioral Health health professionals chose not to hospitalize him, according to a November 2016 Florida Department of Children and Families investigative report obtained by NBC News."

http://wfla.com/2018/02/19/florida-mental-health-agency-examined-cruz-in-2016-didnt-hospitalize-him/

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This might be what you were thinking of

Florida mental health agency examined Cruz in 2016, didn’t hospitalize him

"Crisis workers from a South Florida mental health facility were called in 2016 to hold alleged gunman Nikolas Cruz for a psychiatric evaluation after he sent out a Snapchat video in which he cut his arms and said he wanted to buy a gun, according to a mental health report.

But after speaking with Cruz, Henderson Behavioral Health health professionals chose not to hospitalize him, according to a November 2016 Florida Department of Children and Families investigative report obtained by NBC News."

http://wfla.com/2018/02/19/florida-mental-health-agency-examined-cruz-in-2016-didnt-hospitalize-him/

Oh Florida you silly goose

 

[pmv]

How long can you keep someone in, if you hospitalise (I'd say 'section') them involuntarily?
If he'd been admitted in 2016, would he not have inevitably gotten out again before now?
Perhaps I'm being pessimistic in ruling out the idea that he'd have been 'cured'.

 

[realibrad]

This might be what you were thinking of

Florida mental health agency examined Cruz in 2016, didn’t hospitalize him

"Crisis workers from a South Florida mental health facility were called in 2016 to hold alleged gunman Nikolas Cruz for a psychiatric evaluation after he sent out a Snapchat video in which he cut his arms and said he wanted to buy a gun, according to a mental health report.

But after speaking with Cruz, Henderson Behavioral Health health professionals chose not to hospitalize him, according to a November 2016 Florida Department of Children and Families investigative report obtained by NBC News."

http://wfla.com/2018/02/19/florida-mental-health-agency-examined-cruz-in-2016-didnt-hospitalize-him/

That is what I found too, but I could not find that it was a psychiatrist. I would expect or at least hope that a psychiatrist would be the one doing the eval, but I can't find where it says it was was explicitly. I also found where the school counselor disagreed with the evaluation.

Though there had been an account of medical neglect, the report said that "[Cruz's] clinician from Henderson mental health has stated that there are no issues with [Cruz's] medication and he has been compliant with taking his medication and keeps all of his appointments."

A counselor at the school told the Florida Department of Children and Families investigators that a professional from the mental health facility had visited Cruz and "found him to be stable enough [to] not be hospitalized." The school counselor expressed concern with the department, according to the report, and said she and her staff wanted to "ensure that the assessment of Henderson was not premature."

From what it looks like, back in 2016 Cruz was looked at because of his postings where he cut himself and said some things that concerned people. The investigation was about him being neglected, and they felt he was not. So the incident was about him hurting himself and then seeing if he was being properly treated. At that time, they felt that his medication along with the fact that he was seeing someone about his mental health would be enough to not consider him a risk. After his mom died, he had nobody to govern him and verify that he was still being treated. Had the FBI done its job, local authorities would have checked up and seen that he lost his support network and likely could have found enough cause to get him reevaluated. That may have been enough here.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It just seems like so many things failed here.

I agree, and it was not just the LEO failing to do something when they were given the warning signs. Our society failed Cruz in many ways that lead to this. I think that once we have all the details our society needs to have a long discussion on how to prevent such failures again, both by LEO and by finding support for people crying out for it. Just go and look at all the parallels between what we already know about Cruz and Adam Lanza (the Sandy Hook killer). There are definitely some things we can learn about how (some) individuals gets to were they do this sort of thing, and from that we can find ways to detect warning signs and ways to intercede beforehand.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I’d think that having a documented video by a State Agency of a person cutting themselves and saying they want a gun to shoot themself or others would be enough to put that person on a no buy gun list.

 

[soundforbjt]

I’d think that having a documented video by a State Agency of a person cutting themselves and saying they want a gun to shoot themself or others would be enough to put that person on a no buy gun list.

Florida laws.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Florida laws.

Yah I forgot

 

[SMOGZINN]

That is what I found too, but I could not find that it was a psychiatrist. I would expect or at least hope that a psychiatrist would be the one doing the eval, but I can't find where it says it was was explicitly. I also found where the school counselor disagreed with the evaluation.

I don't know about Florida but at in the State of Texas it would have to been at least a licensed Psychologist that (oversaw) the evaluation (which probably would have been done by an intern working on getting his license.)

 

[Svnla]

The gun was jam or things could have been a lot worse because the killer still had about 150 bullets. Also, the FBI said it dropped the ball in this case.


- http://www.newsweek.com/nikolas-cruz-guns-assault-rifles-parkland-florida-823091