Florida High School Shooting

[Kaido]

thats a pro gun psychopath for you.

I'm not anti-gun, but there's a time & a place for throwing your views out there...publicly posting a picture of yourself with a mask & a gun to a teenage kid who just watched his friends get murdered a year ago is pretty dang insensitive. The Internet has made it waaaaaaay too easy to stick your foot in your mouth:

Searcy later deleted the tweet following a backlash and even posted an apology to Hogg, but the gun activist had already retweeted the picture calling out the principal, telling him ‘what’s more cool’ than guns.

‘Cool guns, you know what’s more cool?,’ Hogg rhetorically asked. ‘Mom's and dads getting to see their kids graduate high school alive; Kids not having to step over bloodstained sidewalks on their way to school; Parents not coming home to find their child with a self inflicted gun shot wound.’

I mean, I understand what the principle was doing, as he enjoys guns himself & wants to protect that right, and gun rights is a very serious discussion, but now he's been placed on leave from his job because of the way he expressed those views, and probably getting a ton of hate mail from the Internet because of it. That's the other difficult problem with the Internet - you basically get branded for life. Remember Kathy Griffin? She took her humor over the line with the severed head photo & got fired because of it. It's hard because we've all done moronic stuff at some point in our life, but for most of us, it becomes a distant memory & we learn & grow from it...with the Internet, it seems like steeping over the line can haunt you for the rest of your life.

 

[DrDoug]

The article has it wrong, it's "principal". As in "This asshole should lose his job as a school principal because he has no principles."

 

[Kaido]

The article has it wrong, it's "principal". As in "This asshole should lose his job as a school principal because he has no principles."

Oh yeah, I wrote it wrong too...princi"pal" right?

 

[DrDoug]

Oh yeah, I wrote it wrong too...princi"pal" right?

I know the word well as I spent a lot of time talking to principals and got to read the plate on their door a lot while waiting to do so.

 

[pmv]

I'm not anti-gun, but there's a time & a place for throwing your views out there...publicly posting a picture of yourself with a mask & a gun to a teenage kid who just watched his friends get murdered a year ago is pretty dang insensitive. The Internet has made it waaaaaaay too easy to stick your foot in your mouth:


I mean, I understand what the principle was doing, as he enjoys guns himself & wants to protect that right, and gun rights is a very serious discussion, but now he's been placed on leave from his job because of the way he expressed those views, and probably getting a ton of hate mail from the Internet because of it. That's the other difficult problem with the Internet - you basically get branded for life. Remember Kathy Griffin? She took her humor over the line with the severed head photo & got fired because of it. It's hard because we've all done moronic stuff at some point in our life, but for most of us, it becomes a distant memory & we learn & grow from it...with the Internet, it seems like steeping over the line can haunt you for the rest of your life.

While I'm honesly shocked that someone in the job he was in could be so immature/crass (and even the picture of him fits all my negative prejudices - he _looks_ like the kind of guy who might do that), and I can't say I'm at all sorry he's been disciplined by his employer, I agree with your wider point. Moments of crassness that previously wouldn't go any further than someone's immediate social circle, and might quickly be forgotten, now become an international news story, and can follow you forever.

Twitter in particular seems like the best mechanism ever invented for celebrities, politicians, and people in positions of responsibility to destroy themselves. It's really quite weird and I'm not sure it's entirely a good thing.

 

[SMOGZINN]

but for most of us, it becomes a distant memory & we learn & grow from it...with the Internet, it seems like steeping over the line can haunt you for the rest of your life.

It is a direct response to how easy it has become to be a complete asshole to complete strangers with almost not accountability. The counter to millions of people feeling like they can get away with bullying people online with no accountability is that when you do get caught and held accountable it is drastic and follows you for life.

 

[pmv]

It is a direct response to how easy it has become to be a complete asshole to complete strangers with almost not accountability. The counter to millions of people feeling like they can get away with bullying people online with no accountability is that when you do get caught and held accountable it is drastic and follows you for life.

It's not really a 'counter' though. Maybe a corollary. Because it's somewhat random in how it plays out. Some people seem to get away with everything, others can't get away wit' nuttin'. I suppose it depends what your 'constituency' is, whether you've offended those on your own 'team' or not, and also just how much social power the group you've offended against actually have.

"Social Justice" sometimes seems as selective and as subject to the effects of power differences as any other kind of justice.

I cite Boris Johnson's seeming immunity to any sort of social shaming. Even a fellow Tory like Michael Gove doesn't seem to get his special dispensation.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It's not really a 'counter' though. Maybe a corollary. Because it's somewhat random in how it plays out. Some people seem to get away with everything, others can't get away wit' nuttin'. I suppose it depends what your 'constituency' is, whether you've offended those on your own 'team' or not, and also just how much social power the group you've offended against actually have.

"Social Justice" sometimes seems as selective and as subject to the effects of power differences as any other kind of justice.

I cite Boris Johnson's seeming immunity to any sort of social shaming. Even a fellow Tory like Michael Gove doesn't seem to get his special dispensation.

That is just it, that is how almost all justice works. Most people get away with it most of the time, but when you are caught, or piss off the wrong person enough, the hammer of justice comes down and is harsh.

Now, I'm not actually going so far as to call internet virtual vigilantism as justice, I'm just pointing out that these are related concepts. The freedom to be an asshole created the need for people to be able to counter it, so they came up with a way to fight back. While one is low grade but fairly constant and ubiquitous, the other is high powered but rare and capricious.

 

[Kaido]

While I'm honesly shocked that someone in the job he was in could be so immature/crass (and even the picture of him fits all my negative prejudices - he _looks_ like the kind of guy who might do that), and I can't say I'm at all sorry he's been disciplined by his employer, I agree with your wider point. Moments of crassness that previously wouldn't go any further than someone's immediate social circle, and might quickly be forgotten, now become an international news story, and can follow you forever.

Twitter in particular seems like the best mechanism ever invented for celebrities, politicians, and people in positions of responsibility to destroy themselves. It's really quite weird and I'm not sure it's entirely a good thing.

I'd imagine he was thinking the following:

1. It's been a year since the shooting
2. There's a kid out there preaching "no more guns"
3. The guy likes guns
4. He posted a tweet at the kid stating so, in order to defend & support his position on a very public topic

It's standard human fallacy to not see the whole picture & to stick your foot in your mouth. I'd imagine he didn't intend for it to be as insensitive as it came across...he was probably coming from the "I like guns & that's what I think this country is all about", not "you're a kid who saw your friends mowed down in front of you, so here's a picture of me in a mask with a gun, ha-ha-ha". But, now he's stuck with the very public repercussions of his actions.

 

[pmv]

That is just it, that is how almost all justice works. Most people get away with it most of the time, but when you are caught, or piss off the wrong person enough, the hammer of justice comes down and is harsh.

Now, I'm not actually going so far as to call internet virtual vigilantism as justice, I'm just pointing out that these are related concepts. The freedom to be an asshole created the need for people to be able to counter it, so they came up with a way to fight back. While one is low grade but fairly constant and ubiquitous, the other is high powered but rare and capricious.

They are related, but they don't necessarily oppose each other - they are both subject to the same imbalances of power. The 'hammer of justice' is not really random, it itself can be dependent on similar power imbalances as the original offenses.
Even when its about defending the less-powerful, some less-powerful groups are more less-powerful than others. You have a better chance of getting away with an abuse of one sort of power if you have other forms of power as well.

I don't know what the solution is, mind you.

 

[pmv]

I'd imagine he was thinking the following:

1. It's been a year since the shooting
2. There's a kid out there preaching "no more guns"
3. The guy likes guns
4. He posted a tweet at the kid stating so, in order to defend & support his position on a very public topic

It's standard human fallacy to not see the whole picture & to stick your foot in your mouth. I'd imagine he didn't intend for it to be as insensitive as it came across...he was probably coming from the "I like guns & that's what I think this country is all about", not "you're a kid who saw your friends mowed down in front of you, so here's a picture of me in a mask with a gun, ha-ha-ha". But, now he's stuck with the very public repercussions of his actions.

While that's true, I'd expect someone in such a responsible position to have better impulse-control and be more inclined to think things through before acting. His lack of doing so seems oddly immature for someone in such a position. It's disappointing. Though if Twitter and the internet didn't exist maybe he'd never have been tempted to do something so foolish?

 

[0roo0roo]

It is a direct response to how easy it has become to be a complete asshole to complete strangers with almost not accountability. The counter to millions of people feeling like they can get away with bullying people online with no accountability is that when you do get caught and held accountable it is drastic and follows you for life.

The missing part is this, based on the progressive caste system, the left "can get away with bullying people online with no accountability " as a rule.

They cut out this man's tongue over this article because they don't really want to understand why, their every concern is insincere.

Guns Don’t Kill People, School Psychologists Do, by Kantbot
https://archive.fo/LcuIh

People who burn books don't get to talk about bullying.

 

[purbeast0]

I think we all know that guns don't kill people...

 

[pmv]

The missing part is this, based on the progressive caste system, the left "can get away with bullying people online with no accountability " as a rule.

The reality is mostly the reverse, though. The right tend to be able to get away with almost anything, because their supporters will forgive almost anything. Clearly even they have limits, cf what happened to Milo. But Trump is clearly not subject to the same standards as others, and nor is Boris Johnson.

 

[cytg111]

The missing part is this, based on the progressive caste system, the left "can get away with bullying people online with no accountability " as a rule.

They cut out this man's tongue over this article because they don't really want to understand why, their every concern is insincere.

Guns Don’t Kill People, School Psychologists Do, by Kantbot
https://archive.fo/LcuIh

People who burn books don't get to talk about bullying.

Is the alt right adopting an alt klingon dialect? I dont understand a word of that salad.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The missing part is this, based on the progressive caste system, the left "can get away with bullying people online with no accountability " as a rule.

That is not even close to true. The left castigate other members of the left regularly. Be an ass on a left leaning forum and you will get roasted. Be a big enough ass and they will put the full weight of their wrath on your life.

The #metoo movement has caught as many left-wing members as right, maybe more.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Broward School Superintendent Allegedly Lied to Grand Jury Investigating Aftermath of Parkland Mass Shooting

Robert Runcie, 59, the school superintendent of Broward County, Florida, was arrested Wednesday for perjury. He allegedly lied to a grand jury that was investigating the aftermath of the 2018 Parkland mass shooting.

lawandcrime.com

Records: Florida school superintendent lied to jury investigating Parkland massacre

Still looking at stuff.

 

[Linux23]

Broward School Superintendent Allegedly Lied to Grand Jury Investigating Aftermath of Parkland Mass Shooting

Robert Runcie, 59, the school superintendent of Broward County, Florida, was arrested Wednesday for perjury. He allegedly lied to a grand jury that was investigating the aftermath of the 2018 Parkland mass shooting.

lawandcrime.com

Records: Florida school superintendent lied to jury investigating Parkland massacre

Still looking at stuff.

No need for alarm people. He's black. Move along. Move along.

 

[darkswordsman17]

No need for alarm people. He's black. Move along. Move along.

Shut the fuck up.

 

[Linux23]

Shut the fuck up.

oh baby, don't be like that. where's the love?

 

[woolfe9998]

Jury just decided to not impose the death penalty on the shooter, gave him LWOP instead. His counsel argued he was brain damaged from chronic alcohol and drug use during his mother's pregnancy, and that he was mentally ill. The jury seems to have agreed.

Live updates: Nikolas Cruz, Florida school shooter, will be sentenced to life in prison | CNN

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

That's what it should have been from the beginning. The state wasted a ton of money for no good reason.

 

[Muse]

Jury just decided to not impose the death penalty on the shooter, gave him LWOP instead. His counsel argued he was brain damaged from chronic alcohol and drug use during his mother's pregnancy, and that he was mentally ill. The jury seems to have agreed.

Live updates: Nikolas Cruz, Florida school shooter, will be sentenced to life in prison | CNN

I don't think they agreed (saw the story on ABC network news tonight), they just didn't agree that he should get the death penalty, the foreman was against the decision. Honestly, I am not big on capital punishment but in this case I think they should have acceded to the wishes of the families of the slain, who evidently wanted the DP. Badly.

 

[woolfe9998]

I don't think they agreed (saw the story on ABC network news tonight), they just didn't agree that he should get the death penalty, the foreman was against the decision. Honestly, I am not big on capital punishment but in this case I think they should have acceded to the wishes of the families of the slain, who evidently wanted the DP. Badly.

Some of them must have agreed, or they presumably would have imposed the DP. This was a pretty egregious crime even as murders go. I can't see them declining the DP unless they thought there were mitigating factors. Unless somehow the jury consisted mainly of DP opponents, of which there aren't that many in Florida.

 

[DaaQ]

I heard the suspect wanted DP, so granting him LwoP would be against his wishes. He will not last long in a Federal Pen. Unless completely solitary confined. Maybe.

Edit: I think they wanted to pass it off on the judge, but were confused by rules. Judge cannot overturn a life in prison, but could revert a death penalty to life in prison if needed. Seems like kicking the ball to the judge.

Either way, he will not last long in prison, unless completely isolated. IMO.