Florida High School Shooting

[quikah]

No audio at work, got something that's not a youtube video? I provided a wikipedia link, at least.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/germany.php

The general requirements for obtaining any type of weapons license are

• a minimum age of eighteen years;
• the proven reliability of the applicant;
• knowledge of weapons technology and
  law, and expertise in the use of a firearm;
• five years of residency in Germany; and
• a need for the weapon.

Also, the license specifies the number of weapons you are allowed. The applicant is categorized based on their use, such as hunter or marksmen.

BTW: Germany has had several mass school shootings as well, in 2002, 2006 & 2009. Much of the above restrictions were added due to these.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

"Jereb said that Cruz was associated with ROF, having been “brought up” by another membe"​

Does that mean his late adoptive parents were ROF members?

Think of it like biker gangs. Brought up more means vouched for.

 

[Puffnstuff]

People are too quick to go get a gun these days in lieu of actually trying to problem solve. On the flip side if you are the recipient of such behavior I do appreciate FL's stand your ground law so if they come to my home or try to carjack me I can defend myself accordingly.

 

[WackyDan]

Hey guys, we should be celebrating the fact that there was only ONE school shooting yesterday, and that toddlers in a day care weren't part of the bodycount!

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Rifle-wielding father tries to storm Alabama daycare; worker hailed as hero for blocking entry

The ordeal began about 2 p.m. at the small daycare on Dewey Drive off of Friendship Road near Oxford. Wade said they received a 911 call from the daycare reporting a man with a gun. Sheriff's deputies, Oxford police and even a game warden who was nearby and heard the police radio call, flocked to the scene.

When they arrived, Turner was already gone. The daycare worker told lawmen the man went to the daycare demanding his 1-year-old daughter.

The worker, whose name hasn't been released, refused to let him inside. While she blocked his way, she also instructed other workers to usher all of the children into a room to keep them safe should he make entry.

Turner then threatened to drive his truck through into the daycare, Wade said. He went to his truck and retrieved a rifle. "He threatened to kill everyone in the building,'' he said.

Likely was the case of a man in a custody fight with his ex, or a case where the ex was preventing him from seeing his child. Not enough details, but either way he handled that the wrong way and glad it was upgraded to felony.

 

[SMOGZINN]

You are never going to get any legislation passed if it is an outright ban, if it imparts registration, etc. You aren't very realistic are you?

Not really. All it takes is money. Politicians love money.

Not really. I think we are getting closer to being able to enact such restrictions as I proposed. People are getting seriously tired of this happening over and over. Believe it or not, it was not that long ago that I was a major 2A supporter. I still own multiple firearms. I regularly open carried. I still shoot at nearly every family gathering. All my relatives bring their guns to family gatherings so we can compete in games of marksmanship. I used to do fast draw competitions. But none of it is worth the lives it costs. All I have to do is look at other countries to see that gun ownership is at least a major contributing factor in these mass murders.

And I'm not fooling myself, I know how rare these sorts of mass shootings are. I know that me and my kids are much more likely to die from drowning at the beach than gun violence. But gun violence is mitigatable, and I can find little reason not to do so. If we require people to wear seatbelts, we can enact laws to mitigate this as well.

I really think all it is going to take for something like this to happen is for Democrats to get control like the Republicans have now.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/germany.php

The general requirements for obtaining any type of weapons license are

• a minimum age of eighteen years;
• the proven reliability of the applicant;
• knowledge of weapons technology and
  law, and expertise in the use of a firearm;
• five years of residency in Germany; and
• a need for the weapon.

Also, the license specifies the number of weapons you are allowed. The applicant is categorized based on their use, such as hunter or marksmen.

BTW: Germany has had several mass school shootings as well, in 2002, 2006 & 2009. Much of the above restrictions were added due to these.

The US has similar requirements for age restriction, knowledge of safety/law apparently now (or maybe that's just for the hunting license now?), and you do need to be a US resident... most of the time the US doesn't have duration-based residency requirements for things I think since migrations are a little more fluid in the EU. Need for weapon is odd, considering it can be anything from hunting to collecting, you just state your intention I guess.

Reliability of applicant and (potentially) knowledge of weapon/weapon law and expertise are the only real differences from the US side, and I'd be curious how that's enforced. Are we talking about a DoD-style security clearance check and a multi-week camp with a competency test at the end? Or a phone call against a national database and a 2-hour weekend course with a certificate at the end?

 

[sandorski]

No audio at work, got something that's not a youtube video? I provided a wikipedia link, at least.

Not really, but some details are:

-get a license, which includes a course, test, and some practice(a year was mentioned, but don't recall details)
-with a license you buy a permit
-to get a permit you need to disclose what purpose you want it for: Hunting, Sport, or Collecting
-the gun can only be used for the purpose your permit allows
-you can only buy 4 fire arms per permit, but can purchase more permits

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Not really, but some details are:

-get a license, which includes a course, test, and some practice(a year was mentioned, but don't recall details)
-with a license you buy a permit
-to get a permit you need to disclose what purpose you want it for: Hunting, Sport, or Collecting
-the gun can only be used for the purpose your permit allows
-you can only buy 4 fire arms per permit, but can purchase more permits

So it's a bit more onerous, with the potential for tracking someone with a large quantity of guns, but doesn't necessarily halt the ability a) someone to obtain a gun or b) prevent a mass shooting. I definitely don't see these rules, if put in place in the US, bring us in line with Germany's overall level of shootings per capita. It *might* reduce it, I'll concede.

 

[WackyDan]

Not really. All it takes is money. Politicians love money.

Not really. I think we are getting closer to being able to enact such restrictions as I proposed. People are getting seriously tired of this happening over and over. Believe it or not, it was not that long ago that I was a major 2A supporter. I still own multiple firearms. I regularly open carried. I still shoot at nearly every family gathering. All my relatives bring their guns to family gatherings so we can compete in games of marksmanship. I used to do fast draw competitions. But none of it is worth the lives it costs. All I have to do is look at other countries to see that gun ownership is at least a major contributing factor in these mass murders.

And I'm not fooling myself, I know how rare these sorts of mass shootings are. I know that me and my kids are much more likely to die from drowning at the beach than gun violence. But gun violence is mitigatable, and I can find little reason not to do so. If we require people to wear seatbelts, we can enact laws to mitigate this as well.

I really think all it is going to take for something like this to happen is for Democrats to get control like the Republicans have now.

Same here to some extent. I'm still a 2A supporter but not rabid about it. I still carry concealed from time to time, but most of my time with my firearms is spent at the range. The primary use of my guns are target and home defense if we really break it down. I only carry once a month or so and what determines that is where I might be that day. I own two ARs and over the last several months I've thought long and hard about why. I mean I know why I bought them and have them. I also am ok with not having them anymore and that is something I thought I'd never think. I'd be ok with an AR platform that limited me to 5 rounds and no rapid magazine changes - that is a compromise I'm ok with. It preserves the primary function and still allows you to own the platform. That would also satisfy those that hunt with them... and yes I know multiple people who hunt with ARs chambered in different calibers. I'm also realistic and still get caught on the fact that if we erased ARs from the picture, the 9mm semi auto becomes the mass shooters favorite again as it has been in other mass shootings.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Thought this might be a good time to remind everyone of Trumps past speeches. A few parts in particular.

“This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”

“I’ll be able to make sure that when you walk down the street in your inner city, or wherever you are, you’re not going to be shot, Your child isn’t going to be shot.”

“The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon come to an end, Beginning on January 20, 2017, safety will be restored.”

I'm curious how he is going to accomplish all/any of this without doing ANYTHING at all.

 

[Jaskalas]

Thought this might be a good time to remind everyone of Trumps past speeches. A few parts in particular.

I'm curious how he is going to accomplish all/any of this without doing ANYTHING at all.

What do you mean, thoughts and prayers haven't worked?

 

[Dulanic]

No way to prevent this, says only nation the conservatives and paid for politicans where this regularly happens.

FTFY.

I have a CCL, I have a gun. I don't get the far rights problem with some regulation. I vote both ways, but I can completely understand common sense gun regulation. They always argue that it just lets the bad people have guns. Whatever, that might be right part of the time. But in cases when you have a young kid getting a gun LEGALLY when they have issues that should have prevented this.

But no matter, now isn't the time to debate gun regulation amirite? Never is.

 

[mdram]

. they have issues that should have prevented this.
.

and we need to find out what happened and why it didnt work

 

[Dulanic]

and we need to find out what happened and why it didnt work

Not the point, that's what is always said. It doesn't depend upon this circumstance to say trouble teenagers shouldn't be able to legally buy a AR-15. We don't need to determine what happened this time to say this shouldn't be legal.

 

[K1052]

What do you mean, thoughts and prayers haven't worked?

After regularly trying them to get Chris Hemsworth into my bed I'm left to question their overall effectiveness.

 

[mdram]

Not the point, that's what is always said. It doesn't depend upon this circumstance to say trouble teenagers shouldn't be able to legally buy a AR-15. We don't need to determine what happened this time to say this shouldn't be legal.

if he was that troubled why did a healthcare professional not report him?
why did the school not contact law enforcement?

find the failure in the system and fix that

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Not the point, that's what is always said. It doesn't depend upon this circumstance to say trouble teenagers shouldn't be able to legally buy a AR-15. We don't need to determine what happened this time to say this shouldn't be legal.

I think mdram is trying to state that we need to know which portion of the system failed to determine where it went wrong. It's already unlawful to sell a firearm to someone with mental issues (definition fungible), but there was either no indication that this kid was, or those indicators were never reported in a way they could/should have been.

 

[Dulanic]

if he was that troubled why did a healthcare professional not report him?
why did the school not contact law enforcement?

find the failure in the system and fix that

Again not the point, why should a teenager be able to legally buy a AR-15? He shouldn't. It's irrelevant to my point.

Do we need to address other issues? Absolutely, but why not address the obvious one first. There is no reason someone who has been expelled, has pictures on facebook holding a gun up acting like a shithead and taking pictures of that should be approved to buy any gun, let alone a AR-15.

Yes other things need to be addressed too, but we keep avoiding common sense gun laws.

 

[mdram]

I think mdram is trying to state that we need to know which portion of the system failed to determine where it went wrong. It's already unlawful to sell a firearm to someone with mental issues (definition fungible), but there was either no indication that this kid was, or those indicators were never reported in a way they could/should have been.

exactly. where did the system fail, and what can be done to fix that.
no new law will do anything, if current laws dont work

 

[mdram]

Again not the point, why should a teenager be able to legally buy a AR-15? He shouldn't. It's irrelevant to my point.

18 is the legal age.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Again not the point, why should a teenager be able to legally buy a AR-15? He shouldn't. It's irrelevant to my point.

Sigh, right now you can purchase any given long gun at age 18, primarily for hunting reasons. Same for long gun ammunition. If it's old enough for someone to vote for their leader, it's probably old enough to plink cans and/or hunt for their family.

 

[Dulanic]

if he was that troubled why did a healthcare professional not report him?
why did the school not contact law enforcement?

find the failure in the system and fix that

Failure #1 a punk ass teenager can buy the AR-15 legally.

That's the biggest failure IMO. Are there other failures? Absolutely, but I'm, fucking tired of the non stop deflection away from gun laws.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Failure #1 a punk ass teenager can buy the AR-15 legally.

That's quite the prejudice you've got going on. Hindsight's a pain in the ass, what with telling us who should have been denied access to a gun after they kill people.

 

[jackstar7]

AP Reports shooter was member of white nationalist group.

Now I know where he was radicalized. Sorry Islamophobes!

 

[SlowSpyder]

Failure #1 a punk ass teenager can buy the AR-15 legally.

That's the biggest failure IMO. Are there other failures? Absolutely, but I'm, fucking tired of the non stop deflection away from gun laws.

Why does one have to be older than a legal adult to buy a gun?