Florida High School Shooting

[[DHT]Osiris]

Well can you go buy a grenade from the grenade store? An RPG from the RPG store? A tank from the tank store?

No, you cannot, there are some lines beyond which we make concessions of freedom in order to maintain some level of law and order with the population. Things like explosive weaponry falls in that category. Though I'll note that you can, in fact, buy a tank... (Tank stores wouldn't be able to cover overhead though). I'll also note that with appropriate licensing you can, in fact, buy military explosives. Even with severe restrictions we permit personal freedoms to an extent.

Guns fall into a rather hotly contested grey area, where an exceedingly small minority is causing issues for an exceedingly large minority (some 45% of households own a gun), which is causing some mix of minority and majority to get up in arms, if you'll pardon the pun.

 

[mdram]

The next logical step would have been to ban him from legally purchasing a gun or separate him from any guns he already owned. You people would have screamed holy hell. You always blame mental health but are unwilling to take that final step. Absent that it will happen again.

if a qualified health care professional deems a person to be a threat to themselves or others, they are required to report that to nics

 

[purbeast0]

No, you cannot, there are some lines beyond which we make concessions of freedom in order to maintain some level of law and order with the population. Things like explosive weaponry falls in that category. Though I'll note that you can, in fact, buy a tank... (Tank stores wouldn't be able to cover overhead though). I'll also note that with appropriate licensing you can, in fact, buy military explosives. Even with severe restrictions we permit personal freedoms to an extent.

Guns fall into a rather hotly contested grey area, where an exceedingly small minority is causing issues for an exceedingly large minority (some 45% of households own a gun), which is causing some mix of minority and majority to get up in arms, if you'll pardon the pun.

Well why not AR's in that category then? Regardless of why they are used? Just make them nearly impossible for anyone to get them.

 

[mdram]

Well why not AR's in that category then? Regardless of why they are used? Just make them nearly impossible for anyone to get them.

because the ar is nothing more than a scary looking semi auto rifle
no diff than any other one.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Well why not AR's in that category then? Regardless of why they are used? Just make them nearly impossible for anyone to get them.

Because a semi-automatic AR is a rifle styled with bits all over it and painted black. Usually has a magazine that holds a handful more than a stock/unmodified hunting rifle of equivalent caliber. It's just a goddamned rifle.

EDIT: Here, ignore all the gun nutter garbage, the picture is the point I'm trying to make:

 

[Dulanic]

apples and oranges
its illegal to sell a firearm banned in state 'A' to resident of state 'A' while resident is in state 'B' even if said firearm is legal in state 'B'

It's not even a legal requirement to require a ID in all states. Sure maybe it might technically be illegal, only if they openly announce it. Half the issue is it does vary so much state to state, talk about following a bunch of different regulations.

 

[K1052]

because the ar is nothing more than a scary looking semi auto rifle
no diff than any other one.

Which is why semi-auto firearms should probably be banned.

 

[brycejones]

Because a semi-automatic AR is a rifle styled with bits all over it and painted black. Usually has a magazine that holds a handful more than a stock/unmodified hunting rifle of equivalent caliber. It's just a goddamned rifle.

EDIT: Here, ignore all the gun nutter garbage, the picture is the point I'm trying to make:

Ban them both. Problem solved

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Which is why semi-auto firearms should probably be banned.

Ban them both. Problem solved

You're both welcome to climb that hill, but it's a steep one, and I'd wager we have a full, comprehensive mental health reform moonshot program before you get semi-auto rifles banned in any state. You'll probably have states leave the union before 2A gets repealed.

 

[interchange]

Because a semi-automatic AR is a rifle styled with bits all over it and painted black. Usually has a magazine that holds a handful more than a stock/unmodified hunting rifle of equivalent caliber. It's just a goddamned rifle.

Weapons are chosen for this purpose because they make the bearer feel powerful and dangerous. It has little to do with efficacy for the task. Shooting up random people in a school serves no rational purpose. We shouldn't expect such people to use reason in how to do it. We should instead look at what people actually do, and it turns out a whole damn lot them use ARs.

 

[zerocool84]

Because restricting ownership of objects based on need is a pretty shitty way to govern a populace, and it's a shitty place to live in for the people. I'm not going to delve into the potential abuses of such a notion, just suffice to say there's a lot of people that take issue with someone else telling them what they can/cannot do, as most free thinking individuals should.

That's the thing, gun nutters have no problem having laws for things they don't like/want but god forbid national background checks for any gun purchase from any source

 

[FerrelGeek]

Can Rocketman nuke us already?

Living in a post-nuclear holocaust US may still be preferable to living under fat boy and his sister. But by all means feel free to move to that glorious people's paradise. Just don't do anything to offend the little boy or you may get strapped on that nuke missile headed towards us. You can do a Slim Pickins on the way down.

 

[fskimospy]

Because a semi-automatic AR is a rifle styled with bits all over it and painted black. Usually has a magazine that holds a handful more than a stock/unmodified hunting rifle of equivalent caliber. It's just a goddamned rifle.

Yes, banning AR-15's doesn't do anything by itself as there are plenty of other firearms that could achieve similar results. I agree with you that if you're looking for effective gun control to reduce mass casualty events like this we should be looking more into the aspects of these weapons that make them deadly. ie: clip/magazine sizes, things like that. Banning AR-15's specifically is probably counterproductive as it will give the impression something is being done when really it's just as easy as ever to shoot a bunch of people.

 

[K1052]

You're both welcome to climb that hill, but it's a steep one, and I'd wager we have a full, comprehensive mental health reform moonshot program before you get semi-auto rifles banned in any state. You'll probably have states leave the union before 2A gets repealed.

I don't think a semi-auto ban is unconstitutional wrt the 2A. At least I'm not aware of it having even been tried.

 

[mdram]

That's the thing, gun nutters have no problem having laws for things they don't like/want but god forbid national background checks for any gun purchase from any source

i listed a national background check law, did you miss it?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Weapons are chosen for this purpose because they make the bearer feel powerful and dangerous. It has little to do with efficacy for the task. Shooting up random people in a school serves no rational purpose. We shouldn't expect such people to use reason in how to do it. We should instead look at what people actually do, and it turns out a whole damn lot them use ARs.

Very likely true, but the fact remains that banning black rifles with bits all over them wouldn't stop someone from using an equivalent wooden one without bits all over them to do the same thing. You'd have to ban them categorically as K1052 and brycejones are suggesting.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That's the thing, gun nutters have no problem having laws for things they don't like/want but god forbid national background checks for any gun purchase from any source

I'm all for background checks out the wazoo, probably for more than just firearms, I just want to make sure we're on the same page that dictating what people are permitted to buy based on whether or not they need it is jacked up.

Yes, banning AR-15's doesn't do anything by itself as there are plenty of other firearms that could achieve similar results. I agree with you that if you're looking for effective gun control to reduce mass casualty events like this we should be looking more into the aspects of these weapons that make them deadly. ie: clip/magazine sizes, things like that. Banning AR-15's specifically is probably counterproductive as it will give the impression something is being done when really it's just as easy as ever to shoot a bunch of people.

Agreed, it'd be feelgood garbage legislation that wouldn't effectively curtail a damned thing.

I don't think a semi-auto ban is unconstitutional wrt the 2A. At least I'm not aware of it having even been tried.

I know you'd have plenty fighting to convince the supreme court that it was, I have no idea what direction it'd go.

 

[pauldun170]

Very fine people

 

[IJTSSG]

The next time a drunk driver hits and kills a minivan full of people, I think we should outlaw whatever car he was driving.
Then we should sue the manufacturer.

 

[fskimospy]

Very fine people

I wonder what Trump's reaction would have been if he were connected to a radical Islamist or BLM group instead of white nationalists.

Silly me, we all know it would be exactly the same because the president definitely isn't a racist or an Islamophobe.

 

[interchange]

Very likely true, but the fact remains that banning black rifles with bits all over them wouldn't stop someone from using an equivalent wooden one without bits all over them to do the same thing. You'd have to ban them categorically as K1052 and brycejones are suggesting.

It wouldn't stop them, no, but then again why don't they buy the wooden ones in the first place if they're just as good already?

Have you ever had a hankering for some popcorn (or other snack) and went to the pantry only to realize you didn't have any popcorn? But you had some chips and really they're just as salty delicious snacky as popcorn. Did you eat the chips? Sometimes you do, sometimes you just want popcorn and don't eat anything because nothing but popcorn will do. Now, you could drive to the store and get some popcorn but that involves finding your shoes, putting them on, and driving. Maybe you do it anyway, but that'd be a serious popcorn hankering.

Point is, people don't automatically settle for second place even when second place is pretty good too.

 

[Dulanic]

The next time a drunk driver hits and kills a minivan full of people, I think we should outlaw whatever car he was driving.
Then we should sue the manufacturer.

Moron of the day contest?

 

[Commodus]

Because a semi-automatic AR is a rifle styled with bits all over it and painted black. Usually has a magazine that holds a handful more than a stock/unmodified hunting rifle of equivalent caliber. It's just a goddamned rifle.

EDIT: Here, ignore all the gun nutter garbage, the picture is the point I'm trying to make:

There is a degree of ridiculousness, but the problem is that the argument in the image loses all credibility with its last sentence. It jumps from a sensible "don't confuse appearance with function" argument to the classic NRA-backed false claim: that the guns are never the problem.

 

[zinfamous]

I thought there were pictures of him wearing Antifa shirts. If we are going the political route. Very little is known right now about the kid other than him having mental health treatments in the past.

You think a lot of things.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It wouldn't stop them, no, but then again why don't they buy the wooden ones? Have you ever had a hankering for some popcorn (or other snack) and went to the pantry only to realize you didn't have any popcorn? But you had some chips and really they're just as salty delicious snacky as popcorn. Did you eat the chips? Sometimes you do, sometimes you just want popcorn and don't eat anything because popcorn won't do. Now, you could drive to the store and get some popcorn but that involves finding your shoes, putting them on, and driving. Maybe you do it anyway, but I'm sure sometimes you won't.

Point is, people don't automatically settle for second place even when second place is pretty good too.

I mean, they do buy the wooden ones. I sold hundreds of those suckers when I worked at Wal-Mart. Some people want the scary black military lookin' ones, some want nice polished wood, some don't care and just want something cheap to shoot squirrels/rabbits/small deer with. But if someone decides he's ready to lose his shit, if he walks into a gun store and only sees wood stock firearms I seriously doubt he's gonna say 'welp, guess I'll just not kill people instead, won't be as cool now, oh well'.