Florida High School Shooting

[Bitek]

So many mass shootings. How many of these do you even remember?

I will always remember Aurora theater and Columbine, not only because of their brutality, but they are places I've also been to.

How many others are just one degree away from these shootings? I've posted before about even another mass shooting where I lost a schoolmate.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Guns aren't causing these people to go on deadly rampages.

It's not like it doesn't cause problems either. It may be small, but it still increase the chances of such shootings.

I was reading about one guy that shot his neighbour because they were arguing about whether one guy was trespassing or not. The shooter said it was done in the heat of anger, and might have done something else if he wasn't carrying the gun at that point. Maybe a stabbing would have occured, or may have just punched his neighbour.

In this case, are guns at fault? Yes. Evaluations must always be done on a case-by-case basis. You can't generalize everyone into one category.

 

[Kaido]

That's why it's a compromise. It takes time to feel the full effects. When a generation has grown up and been unable to largely purchase or own these rapid fire weapons, then their children won't be able to just walk in and take them either. Someone like Paddock would hopefully be caught up in the training and screening process. And by screening I mean they go back every 4 years or so for evaluation. It's a privilge, not a right to step beyond bolt action.

That's the best way to address it. Without confiscations, but with some immediate benefit and more serious ramifications down the road.

That approach makes a lot of sense. I think it's going to have to be something we chip away at & take a reduction approach over time, rather than fixing it in one fell swoop, which would obviously be more ideal, but pretty much impossible.

The current situation makes me think of that movie Minority Report, where they arrest people before they do something illegal. In one of the scenes, the husband comes home to discover that his wife is cheating on him & he decides to kill them with scissors...but doesn't actually do so, as the "pre-cogs" see it happen & police are sent in before it happens to arrest him. If what the initial student talk is saying is true, then kids were already joking about how he was probably going to shoot up the school someday. Disciplinary action for other issues were taken, such as expelling him school. Another article said that he once brought a gun to school, also stalked a girl, also got kicked out of school multiple times, also posted a picture of a frog that had been killed, his mom called the cops on him several times, etc.:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html

But the problem is, even though there were apparently a lot of signs of bad behavior, this event still happened. It sounds like those in authority over him took the appropriate actions to manage his behavior, and legally, it's not like they could have really done anything else - the police can't arrest you for something you didn't do, unlike the movie mentioned above. And of course, even the early behavioral issues aren't always an indicator if not one notices them - by all accounts, the Vegas shooter was a bit introverted & slightly strange, but never did anything that was super "off", unlike the shooter in Florida this week.

My heart goes out to the people affect in this terrible event. No kid should ever have to deal with something like this

 

[Sunburn74]

I wonder if they study their brains like the do with NFL players?

He's the only one I can remember in a while that was captured, I hope they put him through the wringer.

Still trying to predict human behavior is an uphill struggle.



I wouldn't even have thought there was crime in N Korea! I guess that's one way to root out bad genes.

Wouldn't be surprised if he gets the death penalty in Florida.

 

[Sunburn74]

Check out Cabelas in Canada:

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/97723/russian-sks-semi-auto-rifle-w-hardwood-stock

There are a lot more restrictions in Canada when it comes to firearms but people can still purchase "assault rifles." Just not thr scary black ones. And even though it is limited to 5 rounds it only takes a little practice to reload a SKS very quickly.

You can do some damage with a SKS.

So why aren't there as many mass shootings in Canada? Could it be that guns are not responsible for the violence in the U.S.?

I know its a liberals wet dream to have guns disappear in the U.S. but it will never happen. Even if it did.... the problem that actually is the cause of this type of violence still exists. An islamic terrorist in Nice, France killed twice as many people than in Las Vegas in half the time.... without using a gun.

Um its extremely simply to explain.

Restrictions increase the difficulty of access.
Decreased access leads to generally decreased demand.*
Decreased demand leads to decreased ownership.
Decreased ownership leads to less mass shootings (as well as less cultural fixation and worship of guns)

*Generally if you place impediments to people trying to get what they want you will decrease their actual getting what they want (see voter ID laws, prior authorizations for medical services used by insurance companies to keep doctors and patients from getting certain services, etc etc. The fact is if people have to work for something, whilst some will take the extra steps, a lot of people will just drop out). That's why if you say want people to get vaccines or exercise or pay their taxes on time or save for retirement and etc, governments have to focus on policies remove the impediments.

 

[Kaido]

So many mass shootings. How many of these do you even remember?

I will always remember Aurora theater and Columbine, not only because of their brutality, but they are places I've also been to.

How many others are just one degree away from these shootings? I've posted before about even another mass shooting where I lost a schoolmate.

It's getting to the point where it's six degrees to Kevin Bacon & shrinking. My first experience was having a roommate who survived Columbine. His account of it was absolutely terrifying. Mass school shootings weren't a thing in the public mind at that point either, which is what I think made Columbine even worse...not much of a historical precedent before that. Then one of my friends survived the Hartford Distributors shooting back in 2010, and then Newtown happened two years later right down the road from where I live. It's all madness.

 

[Jaskalas]

CNN posted a statistic earlier, 19 of the 30 worst mass shootings in US history have occurred in the past 10 years alone. Our media has glorified the shooters with the coverage they provide, and now it's sitting on the minds of the deranged and not even stating their intent to be a "professional school shooter" and interviews by the FBI result in prevention.

Authorities are powerless to strip these people of guns even when they flat out state their intention. Let that sink in.

 

[rommelrommel]

Check out Cabelas in Canada:

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/97723/russian-sks-semi-auto-rifle-w-hardwood-stock

There are a lot more restrictions in Canada when it comes to firearms but people can still purchase "assault rifles." Just not thr scary black ones. And even though it is limited to 5 rounds it only takes a little practice to reload a SKS very quickly.

You can do some damage with a SKS.

So why aren't there as many mass shootings in Canada? Could it be that guns are not responsible for the violence in the U.S.?

I know its a liberals wet dream to have guns disappear in the U.S. but it will never happen. Even if it did.... the problem that actually is the cause of this type of violence still exists. An islamic terrorist in Nice, France killed twice as many people than in Las Vegas in half the time.... without using a gun.

We actually have a lot of guns in Canada. You can buy a ACR, XCR, Tavor, Swiss Arms, or many other semi automatic magazine fed rifles with a non-restricted license here and shoot them in the woods or whatever. AR15’s in particular are restricted, meaning it’s another class of license and you can only take them to the range. Many older military looking rifles were banned in the 90’s... owners were allowed to keep them and buy/sell amongst themselves but no new imports or owners.

We also have legal 10 round magazines for most of those rifles, and many magazines are full capacity with no more than a pop rivet limiting capacity.

I’m not gonna say that we have no issues, but they are rare. I have to think it’s a lot more than just having guns at play.

 

[Jaskalas]

Ugh, did Yahoo news hire a P&N regular here?

... about the attack, which was the 18th mass shooting in America during this year alone.

Only one problem, their sentence is a complete fabrication. The link doesn't even support the assertion. Most of those cases are not mass shootings, some are accidents, etc. Washington Post of all places is trying to set the record straight. Good for them.

It is a horrifying statistic. And it is wrong.

Everytown has long inflated its total by including incidents of gunfire that are not really school shootings. Take, for example, what it counted as the year’s first: On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closed for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

So not only are they NOT mass shootings, some don't even count as school shootings.

 

[jackstar7]

Another turd thinking he is funny politicizing a tragedy.... more mental illness than what you think he represents.

You know you're politicizing this tragedy, right? Or is that lost on you?

And the gross part is that you're on the side that's permissive of these incidents so that you can keep your toys.

 

[jackstar7]

CNN posted a statistic earlier, 19 of the 30 worst mass shootings in US history have occurred in the past 10 years alone. Our media has glorified the shooters with the coverage they provide, and now it's sitting on the minds of the deranged and not even stating their intent to be a "professional school shooter" and interviews by the FBI result in prevention.

Or it was because a black guy was president and a lot of gun-fuckers could not handle their shit. Correlations are exciting that way.

 

[jackstar7]

I’m guessing the government would need to murder a lot more kids to forcibly remove guns from the populace than the resulting ban would “save”.

Neat! Reality says there are already all these dead kids because you need to keep your toys, but your speculation is very convincing. You should expound.

 

[jackstar7]

The FBI was warned.

On another note why did his guardians let him keep guns if he was suffering from depression, maybe they should have acted like adults and took his guns away since it was obvious to the family he had mental health issues. It seems the parents know they have this demon seed kid yet they let him buy guns and ammo. It could have been prevented if we had adults who gave a rats ass instead of taking the path of least effort/least resistance when it comes to raising children etc..

Should the parents be sued for their complacency?

Also, my original post was sardonic. Seems it was lost on many folks here.

 

[sportage]

Trump says this is a mental illness issue and nothing more.
Well, if we could detect and control mental illness then Donald Trump would never have been president.
Don't you know.....

 

[ch33zw1z]

Check out Cabelas in Canada:

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/97723/russian-sks-semi-auto-rifle-w-hardwood-stock

There are a lot more restrictions in Canada when it comes to firearms but people can still purchase "assault rifles." Just not thr scary black ones. And even though it is limited to 5 rounds it only takes a little practice to reload a SKS very quickly.

You can do some damage with a SKS.

So why aren't there as many mass shootings in Canada? Could it be that guns are not responsible for the violence in the U.S.?

I know its a liberals wet dream to have guns disappear in the U.S. but it will never happen. Even if it did.... the problem that actually is the cause of this type of violence still exists. An islamic terrorist in Nice, France killed twice as many people than in Las Vegas in half the time.... without using a gun.

Google

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

Canada - kicking our ass in education

http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/cody-battershill/why-are-canadians-so-happy_b_4075109.html

Canada - in top 10 for happiest people

Careful, you're almost arguing for socialist tendencies. Can't have that in capitalist nutjob America.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Look at the armed citizenery we have in the U.S. And we still have a governement agency that is armed (FBI) that tried to influence a presidential election to benefit someone whomthe FBI should have convicted (which due to lack of oversight never happened). Leftists would love Americans to be unarmed and that is reason enough for me to own a scary black rifle.

This right here is reason enough to make a reasonable person cringe. This guy believes every single word he hears on Faux News and is probably heavily armed too. The only conspiracy in progress is the one being conducted by the very people you worship.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The FBI was warned.

On another note why did his guardians let him keep guns if he was suffering from depression, maybe they should have acted like adults and took his guns away since it was obvious to the family he had mental health issues. It seems the parents know they have this demon seed kid yet they let him buy guns and ammo. It could have been prevented if we had adults who gave a rats ass instead of taking the path of least effort/least resistance when it comes to raising children etc..

Plenty of adults give a rats ass. Fact is, this guy got his hands on killing machines and put them to use.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...bought-gun-legally-authorities-say/340606002/

He's 19, bought legally, used for what it's made for.

Don't get too outraged, there will be another soon enough, you'll want some energy to pretend to care again.

 

[sportage]

PS.
One huge part of these shootings that I have a big problem with... are the police.
The police are the first responders in every occurrence.
They should be quite vocal and very outspoken about the need for gun control.
The police see the carnage first hand, they know it well, and they know more than most just what these assault weapons of mass destruction are capable of doing to human flesh.
However..... we never once hear from any of them that this must be stopped by enacting strict laws.
They the police simply come in, clean up the mess, and never openly express what should be quite obvious to them.
That being, the only purpose of assault weapons are to kill. And kill in the most horrific way.
Police had never came across such violence in such everyday occurrence until the NRA insisted that assault weapons of mass destruction should be a legal household item.
Then, the congress followed through to allow this.

If the police spoke up and simply said that allowing such weapons to be sold was just insane, then maybe that along with outraged citizens and outraged parents of victims would force the hand of congress into action. To ban these guns.
The cops really need to be out front and very vocal about this.
That would do a great deal of positive good with helping the survivors and relatives of the dead.
To kick start congress and presidents into doing something.

Come-on police, don't give us the impression you enjoy this, or this is a normal part of your job, or just another day on duty.
This is not a normal for us, for you, for society and you need to help make that very clear.
To be very vocal in public and to the media.
Explain exactly in no uncertain terms just what Assault weapons can do, and that such weapons have no place in society.
Police need to make that quite clear just as THEY OFTEN DO when it involves drugs and the carnage from drug abuse.

Funny, the cops have no problem sharing with the public and with the media their first hand horror when it comes to drugs and law enforcement. But never when it comes to assault weapons and dead children,
Does their picking and choosing not seem a bit odd?

 

[ch33zw1z]

This right here is reason enough to make a reasonable person cringe. This guy believes every single word he hears on Faux News and is probably heavily armed too. The only conspiracy in progress is the one being conducted by the very people you worship.

Im sure rudder is all about his volunteer state militia, you know....what the 2a was all about.

Just ignore his nutjobbery, the Hilary hate will never end. I like how they turn a blind eye to the FBI basically throwing shit at Hilary right before the election as well. She must really hate her prison cell, i know she will be there a long time. Glad she is finally locked up. What a menace

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

How many people are part of a well regulated militia run by a free state?

More like a gun clutchers dream here America.

 

[Puffnstuff]

How many people are part of a well regulated militia run by a free state?

Brother 2A does guarantee everyone that their right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed and while it was written in a cause and effect manner the meaning is still the same. However, if little Johnny has been threatening the neighbors, at the range using targets with their likeness on them, demonstrates hate towards everybody and is generally displaying signs that he's about to crack then he should not be allowed to possess firearms.

President Obama's rules towards that end were opposed by the rabid right and as we all know Trump gutted them like he's doing with pretty much anything else put into place by the previous administration. The right's worship of guns at any cost really needs to be reevaluated and the media needs to stay on the relationship between the NRA and donations to the GOP.

FWIW the school shooter trained with the white nationalist group the Republic of Florida (ROF).

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/white-nationalist-militia-claims-florida-shooting-suspect-as-member/
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/what-is-the-republic-of-florida-militia
https://republicofflorida.wordpress.com/

 

[ch33zw1z]

You are welcome to show me in the verbage of the 2A where it says that.

 

[Puffnstuff]

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You are welcome to show me in the verbage of the 2A where it says that.

I'll use your quote which is verbatim of 2A. The blue colored text is the cause for which the founders wanted the effect of armed citizens shown by the red colored text. Like it or not if you haven't broken the law you can own a weapon just like people who can't drive can own a high performance motor vehicle.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I'll use your quote which is verbatim of 2A. The blue colored text is the cause for which the founders wanted the effect of armed citizens shown by the red colored text. Like it or not if you haven't broken the law you can own a weapon just like people who can't drive can own a high performance motor vehicle.

Except that's not what that says. Shit, it doesn't even say anything about breaking the law. And if that's your stance, explain which laws specifically, because tons have been created since the 2A was written, you know....because humanity moves forward and things have changed. And if that's your stance, then you must support changing how we view and enact 2A rights, since humanity has changed in 200 years.

People treat the 2a just like the Bible, interpret it how they want to fit their needs.

The 2A has a very clear context. IMO, you want to own a firearm, your automatically enrolled in a state militia, with mandatory training monthly. Physical and mental aptitude monitored on a regular basis.

 

[brycejones]

I can hunt with an AR and it is very effective in detering intruders.

Look at the armed citizenery we have in the U.S. And we still have a governement agency that is armed (FBI) that tried to influence a presidential election to benefit someone whomthe FBI should have convicted (which due to lack of oversight never happened). Leftists would love Americans to be unarmed and that is reason enough for me to own a scary black rifle.

And what about black lives matters? Do you want the police killing all these young black men to be the only ones allowed to carry weapons?

That's a lot of crazy packed into one post.

 

[Puffnstuff]

The 2A has a very clear context. IMO, you want to own a firearm, your automatically enrolled in a state militia, with mandatory training monthly. Physical and mental aptitude monitored on a regular basis.

I sure does which is why Obama never attempted to touch it and I don't want anybody who understands Constitutional law to mess with it either. Once we start monkeying with basic rights where will it stop? This has to be addressed through USC by enacting mental health guidelines that will not be arbitrarily dismissed by idiots like Trump.