Florida High School Shooting

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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
That's a lot of crazy packed into one post.

LOL and filled with so much bullshit it's leaking brown juice... I completely destroy his post by simply being a lefty that own pistols, a bolt action rifle to hunt, and a Mossberg for those stupid enough to come in. There is no reason other than being 'scurd to own an AR. I can defend myself and hunt just fine without all the while still having my 2A rights intact.

These people who claim otherwise are gun nuts. No other way to put it...
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
I sure does which is why Obama never attempted to touch it and I don't want anybody who understands Constitutional law to mess with it either. Once we start monkeying with basic rights where will it stop? This has to be addressed through USC by enacting mental health guidelines that will not be arbitrarily dismissed by idiots like Trump.
And you've twisted it to your own devices. The 2A clearly allows for a well regulated state militia. Not for anybody to own weapons of mass casuality like we have now.

The basic right set forth under the 2A has been twisted in our country. Very few states keep a state militia as intended, and the federal government that the 2A was created to defend against has far surpassed any ability for the states to defend themselves.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,457
7,393
136
The root cause of this is improperly treated mental illness. In question is how to deal with that.
You cannot blame it all on mental illness. Easy access to guns allows people, mentally ill or not, to quickly cause large amounts of carnage.

On a related note: constantly blaming it all on mental illness helps perpetuates unrealistic stereotypes about people with mental illness.
 
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Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
And you've twisted it to your own devices. The 2A clearly allows for a well regulated state militia. Not for anybody to own weapons of mass casuality like we have now.
That is not correct as you are forgetting the principle of common law which our Constitution and USC are founded upon.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
And here's the typical Dem version...

1. OOOMMMMMFFFFFGGGGGG, GUNSSSSSS!!!!!!!! MUST CONTROL GUUUUNNNNNSSSS!!!!!!!!! THE NRA IS EEEEVVIIIIILLLLL!!!!!!
2. Identify victims
2.1 If any members of politically approved victims groups injured / killed, play up the tragedy, highlighting as many of the victims as possible, repeat step 1 louder, then proceed to step 3
2.2 If victims are mostly white men and / or Christians, ignore victims, repeat step 1 louder, go to step 4
3. Identify shooter
3.1 If shooter is a straight white male, go to step 4 after repeating step 1 even louder
3.2 If shooter is a member of a politically approved victim group, go to step 5 after repeating step 1 even louder
4. Float the accusation the that shooter is a conservative
4.1 If the accusation turns out to be false, downplay the shooter and still try to imply he's a conservative, repeat step 1
4.2 If the accusation turns out to be true, condemn all white males and conservatives in general, repeat step 2.1, repeat step 1 louder still
5 Downplay the shooter, impugn anyone that attempts to blame him / her/ or whichever of the 57 accepted genders the shooter identifies as, accuse the blamers of racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, homophobia, or other phobia / hatred as applicable, encourage empathy for the shooter, repeat step 1 again

Meh..I see my post triggered a little emotional unhinged diatribe about the imagined boogyman, enemy of the state - the "Dems" and the infamous "the libs". According to today's conserative's, anyone who disagree's with Trumpland is a "lib" anyway, thats 60 fukin percent of the country. That's sure is a lot of "libs". Your labeling is laughable and rings hollow, especially if this is how you engage in debate face to face, not on a message board.

Sorry man, if you don't see a pattern of responses from Trump, his administration and today's 21st century conservatives when these type of incidents happen, and depending on who the perp. is. If he is American or not, you are simply not paying attention or just willfully ignoring it for your "team". Hey, If it walks like a duck, and all that. When will today's conservative's start owning Trump and his administrations behavior?.

Here's another pattern with today's 21st century conservative's. They hate public schools. That's big government. Privatize the school system. People paying attention can see that some conservatives will shut down the public school system before they do anything about gun violence.

If conservatives started blaming mass shootings on the existence of public schools, I wouldn't be surprised. This seems to be their logic:

1) All kids should be either homeschooled and sent to highly exclusive private schools because government is bad.

2) Only reckless, foolish parents send their kids to schools where any maniac can come in and shoot up the place because these schools are gun free zones and the teachers don't carry.

3) Conclusion: It's like going to the ghetto at night carrying a bunch of cash and then crying when you're mugged. It's like getting drunk at the frat party and then crying when you're raped. If you're too lazy to mitigate known risks (by homeschooling or sending your kids to a private school), then you lose the right to cry when your son or daughter gets attacked by the inevitable gun man our society somehow has to learn to live with because of the "fetishized" interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

Carry on with you next diatribe...
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
Then provide text of the parts that you feel support your claim.
Common law is based upon the accepted general interpretation of a given law or circumstance. Historically the commonly held belief on 2A is that if the Congress wanted gun ownership to be restricted to only standing militia members that it would expressly state this but it doesn't. It specifies that the "right of the people" which explicitly states that the citizens outside of the recognized state militia have the right to keep and bear arms.

It doesn't matter if you like this or not just like the right doesn't like free speech when people are opposing their views but its their right to hold their own opinions. This is exactly why Congress needs to amend USC to specifically address the conditions under which gun ownership is not permissible. That way it will be law and not under the control of the executive branch to dismiss on a whim like what Trump did.
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,120
276
136
And you've twisted it to your own devices. The 2A clearly allows for a well regulated state militia. Not for anybody to own weapons of mass casuality like we have now.

The basic right set forth under the 2A has been twisted in our country. Very few states keep a state militia as intended, and the federal government that the 2A was created to defend against has far surpassed any ability for the states to defend themselves.

Fortunately, people far smarter than you have ruled that you're wrong. See the Supreme Court case - D.C vs. Heller. It will be a long time before that gets overturned. The gun grabbing, fascist, c0cksucker crowd may want to start proposing some solutions that don't involve stripping millions of law abiding Americans of their constitutional rights. That will be met with immediate and over whelming resistance every single time. We can do better screenings, we can limit magazine size, if federal law enforcement can look at every threat to POTUS, they can start looking at other threats, etc.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
LOL and filled with so much bullshit it's leaking brown juice... I completely destroy his post by simply being a lefty that own pistols, a bolt action rifle to hunt, and a Mossberg for those stupid enough to come in. There is no reason other than being 'scurd to own an AR. I can defend myself and hunt just fine without all the while still having my 2A rights intact.

These people who claim otherwise are gun nuts. No other way to put it...

I would have loved to own a private AR-15 while I was active duty to supplement my shooting practice, even with the extra rounds we were provided above service support types it still wasn't as many as would be ideal. Personally I think an acceptable middle ground for a lot of parties would be to allow ownership of almost any kind of weapon but limit their actual use to the range and perhaps require storage of them there or somewhere other than the home. There could even be a tiers system akin to narcotics where their handling and use was prescribed by category of the danger they represent; someone putting a $3,000 Olympic quality Hammerli target shooting pistol into the same category as some rando's AR-15 kit is stupid.



Someone with one of these isn't going to use it to commit a school shooting and treating all firearms owners alike isn't good policy.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
Typical lib reaction to anyone that dares to call them out on their BS. I've never been triggered by anything on this forum. I'd say that if anything, my response triggered you little boy. I'm so sorry that I dared to state how bad dems are in their own way. So sorry that I don't acknowledge your evolutionary superiority. Sorry that you're not capable of seeing just how effed up your side can be. I fully acknowledge that those on the right can do some pretty stupid things. If you actually had the ability to look at things in a non-partisan fashion, you'd go back and look at the dem/media response and see that my ouline isn't that far off the mark. But hey, live in your little fantasy world where your farts smell like lavender.

The thought of the likes of you triggering the likes of me is hilarious.

Meh..I see my post triggered a little emotional unhinged diatribe about the imagined boogyman,
<snip>
Carry on with you next diatribe...
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
You sound like you're a step away from being a shooter yourself. I'm sorry we share different opinions, actually no I'm not. But, I wish you well at any rate.
I've owned a couple of ar's in my day buying lowers and customizing them with different stocks and pistol grips but I was running uppers with a 1 in 9 twist so I couldn't handle the heavier 5.56 loads. To be honest I'm not a big fan of direct gas impingement preferring a gas piston setup like the ak but their stock buffer system sucks.

Even with wolf extra power springs it would still bottom out sending the shock into my shoulder which made me not want to take it to the range and I eventually sold it. When I was younger I enjoyed range time with them but not so much anymore as I'd rather do other things. My hobbies are cyclical so who knows what I will take up next. Couldn't you see me in cooking class with a big fire at the stove?
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
One more thing. Where in the hell do you guys get the idea that only Republicans own guns? Our constitution applies to everyone equally and while we might disagree on ideologies I will never surrender my right as a citizen to own a gun or speak my mind.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I've owned a couple of ar's in my day buying lowers and customizing them with different stocks and pistol grips but I was running uppers with a 1 in 9 twist so I couldn't handle the heavier 5.56 loads. To be honest I'm not a big fan of direct gas impingement preferring a gas piston setup like the ak but their stock buffer system sucks.

Even with wolf extra power springs it would still bottom out sending the shock into my shoulder which made me not want to take it to the range and I eventually sold it. When I was younger I enjoyed range time with them but not so much anymore as I'd rather do other things. My hobbies are cyclical so who knows what I will take up next. Couldn't you see me in cooking class with a big fire at the stove?

I never really got into the AR platform to be honest, but it is largely in part very popular for some of the reasons you mention... it is very customizable, and generally speaking quite reliable. But I don't think it is inherently more deadly than any other semi-automatic gun. And that's where there is a big disconnect between me and some on this forum. I don't blame the AR15, if you're familiar with guns you're well aware that there are many non-"assault weapons" style guns that can create the same body count in a given situation. In some cases maybe even more dead.

I am a hobbyist, going plinking and target shooting is really fun for me. I know for many shooters using open sites at 100, 200 yards is no big feat. But I'll admit that for me it is a challenge, and I enjoy going to the range a few times a year and wasting half a day doing just that. I used to shoot more, but it isn't as cheap these days and work, parenting, other hobbies do get in the way. But, I'm still a strong supporter of the 2A. I grew up around guns, they were never taboo in my home, just a normal way of life for me.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Do you feel like annoyances and disappointing fantasies would prevent someone from an act like this? I'm nothing more than an armchair psychologist so I'm in no way authoritative here, but I feel like someone committing themselves to an action like this is going to find a way to do it. They will 'put on their shoes' as you put it, rather than simply decide to do something else. Hell, when I was a kid, my peers and I just spray-painted toy guns, or wrapped them in electric tape, to make them 'cooler' (aka what we saw on TV, mostly). The barrier for entry into scary gun territory is pretty low... guns are scary enough as they are.

Isn’t ‘if someone really wants to do something they will find a way to do it’ an argument against all laws though?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
One more thing. Where in the hell do you guys get the idea that only Republicans own guns? Our constitution applies to everyone equally and while we might disagree on ideologies I will never surrender my right as a citizen to own a gun or speak my mind.

I've gone handgun shooting many times with a friend of mine that is a registered Dem. He has two handguns that he target shoots with and he would use them in a heartbeat in a self defense situation.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Isn’t ‘if someone really wants to do something they will find a way to do it’ an argument against all laws though?


I know you didn't ask me, but I'll chime in... I think it applies especially well to the madman that wants to cause harm and has surprise on his side, though. I don't think more restrictive gun laws will stop a madman that is determined to do harm that is under the radar. That person has time to plan and the element of surprise over unsuspecting victims.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,659
12,782
146
Isn’t ‘if someone really wants to do something they will find a way to do it’ an argument against all laws though?
Well, locks on doors keep people honest, they don't keep people out if they want in. Likewise, laws guide people who generally are inclined to 'follow the herd' to continue doing so. Adding additional laws which serve to hinder law-abiding citizens may not, necessarily, hinder law-breaking citizens. It's already illegal to shoot people, after all.

Now having said all that, it's still very possible/probable that if access to any of the classifications of weapons which permit something like this to happen would actually reduce the the chances of it happening. I would still prefer that we focus on the why rather than the how, though.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
I never really got into the AR platform to be honest, but it is largely in part very popular for some of the reasons you mention... it is very customizable, and generally speaking quite reliable. But I don't think it is inherently more deadly than any other semi-automatic gun. And that's where there is a big disconnect between me and some on this forum. I don't blame the AR15, if you're familiar with guns you're well aware that there are many non-"assault weapons" style guns that can create the same body count in a given situation. In some cases maybe even more dead.

The focus on the AR platform specifically is a lack of information on the part of people who would like to ban it and intentional misdirection on the part of people who want to keep it who really understand that the issue is semi-automatic firearms in general.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
I don't blame the AR15, if you're familiar with guns you're well aware that there are many non-"assault weapons" style guns that can create the same body count in a given situation. In some cases maybe even more dead.
My first hunting rifle was a Remington 7400 30-06 which was semi-auto with a 4 round hunting magazine. That rifle with a 30 round clip and a quality 4-12 scope would be far more destructive than any ar I've ever owned.
I am a hobbyist, going plinking and target shooting is really fun for me. I know for many shooters using open sites at 100, 200 yards is no big feat. But I'll admit that for me it is a challenge, and I enjoy going to the range a few times a year and wasting half a day doing just that. I used to shoot more, but it isn't as cheap these days and work, parenting, other hobbies do get in the way. But, I'm still a strong supporter of the 2A. I grew up around guns, they were never taboo in my home, just a normal way of life for me.
The only time I've shot open sites with any range was in the Army on the qualifying range with a 400m max. Although I qualified expert with all assigned weapons I don't consider myself to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I started using peep sites when I was 10 years old so it was natural for me when I joined the Army. I just had to explain to my drills that they had to let me look through it my way and once they did I hit everything I was trying to.

I'm also glad that I have never had to draw a weapon for use against another person and hope that it stays that way all of my days.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Well, locks on doors keep people honest, they don't keep people out if they want in. Likewise, laws guide people who generally are inclined to 'follow the herd' to continue doing so. Adding additional laws which serve to hinder law-abiding citizens may not, necessarily, hinder law-breaking citizens. It's already illegal to shoot people, after all.

Now having said all that, it's still very possible/probable that if access to any of the classifications of weapons which permit something like this to happen would actually reduce the the chances of it happening. I would still prefer that we focus on the why rather than the how, though.

I strongly suspect a lot more people would be shot every year if it was legal, haha. The deterrence effect of laws is pretty well established. Sure they clearly don’t stop everyone, but they certainly stop a bunch.

As for focusing on the why instead of the how, why not both?
 
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