Florida High School Shooting

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Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
What I find particularly funny in this forum is that NRA members and pro-gun people are willing to talk about and make compromises to aid the safety of Americans, but the lefties and the anti-gun clueless in here refuse to make common sense decisions that will save lives. Instead they just spew hatred and lies and insanity. They act like rabid animals.
BULLSHIT!
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
What I find particularly funny in this forum is that NRA members and pro-gun people are willing to talk about and make compromises to aid the safety of Americans, but the lefties and the anti-gun clueless in here refuse to make common sense decisions that will save lives. Instead they just spew hatred and lies and insanity. They act like rabid animals.


They'd rather insult because they lose the logic war. The last few pages of comments to me have been particularly entertaining, but totally without substance.
 
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FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
Your association of Dems with criminals shows what is left of your brain is useless to this discussion

Yes, cuz dems NEVER do anything wrong. Your ideas are flawless. This is why one can't have a rational discussion with many on the left, including you. I'm by no means anything close to perfect. At least I'm honest enough with myself about that. Dems would be well served with some hard, honest introspection.
 
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Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,651
132
106
Oh I can see it I just think that those who interpret it that way have small, weak, pathetic minds. They are ruled by fear, paranoia and insecurity. Those are definitely not the kind of people who should be heard in a gun debate.
Why would someone have to be judged as such when it says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." What part of the constitution do you think the 2A was amending? What do you think it was all about? Hunting? Why can't you just say the wording leaves the door too wide open for guns so we need to amend or abolish the 2A? You are just nibbling at the edges and you are not going to be satisfied with what you get (or don't get in a lot of cases). Get to the root of the matter.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Considering after an initial decline alcohol consumption actually rose under prohibition it seems likely the answer is yes.


So you're saying, despite the cost to society of a particular freedom that many people partake in being legal and widely available, prohibition creates an even greater cost when that right is taken away.

I wonder if you can connect the dots here.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
So you're saying, despite the cost to society of a particular freedom that many people partake in being legal and widely available, prohibition creates an even greater cost when that right is taken away.

I wonder if you can connect the dots here.

As I already said, we have ample evidence from around the world that this is not a problem with guns.

I wonder if you can connect the dots, lol. This is not complicated.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
As I already said, we have ample evidence from around the world that this is not a problem with guns.

I wonder if you can connect the dots, lol. This is not complicated.


We are not around the world though, we are America which one of its pillars of freedom that the country is based on, that stands the country up is the right to bear arms. This isn't Australia.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
We are not around the world though, we are America which one of its pillars of freedom that the country is based on, that stands the country up is the right to bear arms. This isn't Australia.

Haha, color me entirely shocked that America is magically special and uniquely unable to undertake a policy most of the rest of the developed world has made work. Odd how those policies America is uniquely unable to do are always ones that conservatives oppose. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

As usual, when empirical evidence tells you things you don't want to hear you invent a reason to ignore it. It's doubly funny considering how you claimed you were basing your opinions in facts and evidence earlier, which we both know is a lie.
 

Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
Its really not quantifiable at this point. To bad we aren't as obsessed with math and science as we are with guns.


Firearm registration Required:
California
District of Columbia
Hawaii
American Samoa
Guam
Puerto Rico
U.S. Virgin Islands

Firearm registration Partial:
Connecticut
Oregon *

Firearm registration Handguns only:
Maryland
Michigan
New Jersey (kinda with exceptions)
New York
Washington


* The Oregon State Police will maintain a record of firearms sales from FFL holders for a period of 5 years, after such period these records are destroyed.


Given that firearm registration has not been going on since the 1800's.
I think that most are not registered is a safe bet.


.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Haha, color me entirely shocked that America is magically special and uniquely unable to undertake a policy most of the rest of the developed world has made work. Odd how those policies America is uniquely unable to do are always ones that conservatives oppose. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

As usual, when empirical evidence tells you things you don't want to hear you invent a reason to ignore it. It's doubly funny considering how you claimed you were basing your opinions in facts and evidence earlier, which we both know is a lie.


Firearms are a culture here to a degree. I really don't think it'd be the same. In an effort to save lives (lol worthy) you'd create a lot of bloodshed. At any rate, in America the answer shouldn't be to take away rights our country was founded on because it scares you. You are overly anxious over something that is exceedingly unlikely to kill you.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,158
136
We tried an Assault Weapon Ban before and it was widely judged to be a failure. That seems directly relevant to discussing the question "on their own merits" and yet you seem to want to ignore that huge data point.

How could it be considered a failure when any metric used didn't show things getting worse?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-...s-used-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent

The study’s findings include:

  • Gun-use is the safest of studied “self-protective strategies,”
  • Suicide accounts for most firearm deaths,
  • Felons who use guns very seldom obtain their guns by stealing them, and
  • There is no evidence that gun restrictions reduce gun violence.

Whooooaaaaaa is that a loaded interpretation of what it said. It said that it was an unresolved issue, in large part because of a lack of data. One of the primary impediments to collecting data was of course conservatives banning research spending on it by federal agencies.

Also, this study was probably commissioned too early to catch more recent research on the issue but now there is most certainly evidence that gun restrictions reduce gun violence:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4504296/

Results. We estimated that the law was associated with a 40% reduction in Connecticut’s firearm homicide rates during the first 10 years that the law was in place. By contrast, there was no evidence for a reduction in nonfirearm homicides.

Conclusions. Consistent with prior research, this study demonstrated that Connecticut’s handgun permit-to-purchase law was associated with a subsequent reduction in homicide rates. As would be expected if the law drove the reduction, the policy’s effects were only evident for homicides committed with firearms.

We also have evidence the other way from Missouri, where relaxing gun control laws appears to have increased their murder rate.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11524-014-9865-8

Using death certificate data available through 2010, the repeal of Missouri’s PTP law was associated with an increase in annual firearm homicides rates of 1.09 per 100,000 (+23 %) but was unrelated to changes in non-firearm homicide rates.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,158
136
most gun owners are open to discussion, and even some more restrictions

the problem is no matter what we suggest, all we get it

"its not enough! ban them all!"

once ant's are open to a logical discussion, we can continue

That's complete bullshit and typical of gun nutters. When you can't argue the merits, change the argument. You are fooling no one.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Firearms are a culture here to a degree. I really don't think it'd be the same. In an effort to save lives (lol worthy) you'd create a lot of bloodshed. At any rate, in America the answer shouldn't be to take away rights our country was founded on because it scares you. You are overly anxious over something that is exceedingly unlikely to kill you.

These emotional arguments are so tiresome. I don't care about your feelings about what you think America is all about or if guns make you feel safe or whatever. This isn't about your feelings. If you want to argue your points use empirical research to do so. Note that if you're going to do that though, that means you can't simply declare that research which tells you things you don't like doesn't count anymore.
 
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