Florida High School Shooting

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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,706
1,233
136
If you have time check out this article.
Read it. Thought it was stupid.

A full-fledged citizen doesn't know when he/she might need a weapon. Here have a pistol or a single-shot. Let see what that does when the Protection Squad starts knocking.

Citizens require access to militarized weapons, to fight off paramilitary groups(federally funded or corporation funded).
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Read it. Thought it was stupid.

A full-fledged citizen doesn't know when he/she might need a weapon. Here have a pistol or a single-shot. Let see what that does when the Protection Squad starts knocking.

Citizens require access to militarized weapons, to fight off paramilitary groups(federally funded or corporation funded).
Where is that happening in your mind? Or better, when is that happening? Can we get a date?
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,706
1,233
136
Where is that happening in your mind? Or better, when is that happening? Can we get a date?
It will not be a surprise in hindsight.

If you want a timeline. There it is. Only after the fact will history know.

A gun-free populace is a slave to the security of the federal government. The federal government in a capitalist environment will not respond to ethnic cleansing. As the funding for the government is marginalized for subsidizing.

Sacrifice an inch of liberty, for an inch of security is a trap into tyranny.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
Let's be honest.
There are so many guns on the streets that whatever the politicans do it doesn't matter.
Disagree. Its unlikely legislation can be passed that will reasonably decrease ownership today but its not unreasonable that legislation is passed that decreases ownership significantly in the next 5-10 years. Heck you can start with a tax.

and the fla state house taught them kids a valuable lesson, from the gop to them- don't bother, we don't care!
Are you surprised? The NRA has these guys by the balls.
 

frowertr

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,371
41
91
At least cooler heads prevailed in FL that they won't hear legislation to ban AR15s. Good move. Building out my 8th one currently.
 
Reactions: SlowSpyder

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
Anyone else notice today on the national news (and your local) an indecent that made me absolutely sick?
Three ROTC cadets that were shot and died in the FL shooting are being buried with medals.
WTF is going on here America?
Kids...LITTLE KIDS, children are being treated as grown men fighting in actual wars.
It is nice these young heroes are being honored, but does not everyone realize what is changing in our society? That we have so many shootings and mass killings involving children that dead children are now buried with medals and treated as war heroes? WAR HEROS? REALLY????
This is totally insane that we must now do this FOR SCHOOL KIDS.
Who could have ever imagined that American society would come to this point, and all because the NRA wants everyone to own an assault weapon and every politician enabling that to happen.

Come-on people.... We've come to the point where dead murdered children are given medals exactly as we do with our Vietnam, WWI and WWII, war heroes.
THESE ARE YOUR KIDS for gods sake!!!!!!
Does no one realize America has become so gun crazy that kids die by the day and little children buried as war heroes?
HOLY F##K AMERICA.... Get your head out of your ass and F##K-ing wake up!!!!
We should all be marching in the streets until congress takes action. Ban these damn guns.
And march day in and day out until they take action.

ALSO.....
And exactly as I predicted earlier, just today a local "REPUBLICAN" politician nixed the idea that the mentally ill and the mentally disturbed with a history of violence should be banned from buying and owning an assault weapon.
What this """REPUBLICAN""" political said was... IF THEY HAVE NOT KILLED ANYONE, YET, THEN DO NOT BAN THEM, THE MENTALLY ILL, FROM BUYING AND OWNING AN ASSAULT WEAPON.
So in other words, if someone violently mentally disturbed that has not yet carried out a mass school killing, and they want an assault weapon, then GIVE IT TO THEM so they can.
 
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Reactions: Younigue
Jul 9, 2009
10,728
2,075
136
Oh gosh, a liberal posting an anti-gun article. I'm so convinced now. My life has changed. I'll need to go out and buy an AR-15 just so I can get rid of it and feel all warm and liberal inside.

If you have time check out this article.

https://agingmillennialengineer.com/2018/02/15/fuck-you-i-like-guns-2/

Posted on February 15, 2018
“Fuck you, I like guns.”

"Edited to add: I can’t thank you all enough for interacting with this post. I am actually surprised that it’s become this popular. This is the first time more than ten people have read anything I’ve written here. I’m probably going to turn off commenting soon because everything that can be said already has been. In general, I’d like to point out that this is an opinion piece. I wrote it on a 15 minute coffee break and posted it unedited. It’s raw, and that’s the whole point. The tone, the language, and the style are intentional. This was written for people like my mostly conservative Army buddies who will never click an article that is titled “Gun control is your friend”, and tend to assume those who support such legislation have never seen a gun before. I’m not a professional writer, nor a particularly prolific blogger until about three days ago. I’m just a person trying to sort it out like everybody else. Thank you for stopping by. I really do appreciate every one of you."


"America, can we talk? Let’s just cut the shit for once and actually talk about what’s going on without blustering and pretending we’re actually doing a good job at adulting as a country right now. We’re not. We’re really screwing this whole society thing up, and we have to do better. We don’t have a choice. People are dying. At this rate, it’s not if your kids, or mine, are involved in a school shooting, it’s when. One of these happens every 60 hours on average in the US. If you think it can’t affect you, you’re wrong. Dead wrong. So let’s talk.

I’ll start. I’m an Army veteran. I like M-4’s, which are, for all practical purposes, an AR-15, just with a few extra features that people almost never use anyway. I’d say at least 70% of my formal weapons training is on that exact rifle, with the other 30% being split between various and sundry machineguns and grenade launchers. My experience is pretty representative of soldiers of my era. Most of us are really good with an M-4, and most of us like it at least reasonably well, because it is an objectively good rifle. I was good with an M-4, really good. I earned the Expert badge every time I went to the range, starting in Basic Training. This isn’t uncommon. I can name dozens of other soldiers/veterans I know personally who can say the exact same thing. This rifle is surprisingly easy to use, completely idiot-proof really, has next to no recoil, comes apart and cleans up like a dream, and is light to carry around. I’m probably more accurate with it than I would be with pretty much any other weapon in existence. I like this rifle a lot. I like marksmanship as a sport. When I was in the military, I enjoyed combining these two things as often as they’d let me.

With all that said, enough is enough. My knee jerk reaction is to consider weapons like the AR-15 no big deal because it is my default setting. It’s where my training lies. It is my normal, because I learned how to fire a rifle IN THE ARMY. You know, while I may only have shot plastic targets on the ranges of Texas, Georgia, and Missouri, that’s not what those weapons were designed for, and those targets weren’t shaped like deer. They were shaped like people. Sometimes we even put little hats on them. You learn to take a gut shot, “center mass”, because it’s a bigger target than the head, and also because if you maim the enemy soldier rather than killing him cleanly, more of his buddies will come out and get him, and you can shoot them, too. He’ll die of those injuries, but it’ll take him a while, giving you the chance to pick off as many of his compadres as you can. That’s how my Drill Sergeant explained it anyway. I’m sure there are many schools of thought on it. The fact is, though, when I went through my marksmanship training in the US Army, I was not learning how to be a competition shooter in the Olympics, or a good hunter. I was being taught how to kill people as efficiently as possible, and that was never a secret.

As an avowed pacifist now, it turns my stomach to even type the above words, but can you refute them? I can’t. Every weapon that a US Army soldier uses has the express purpose of killing human beings. That is what they are made for. The choice rifle for years has been some variant of what civilians are sold as an AR-15. Whether it was an M-4 or an M-16 matters little. The function is the same, and so is the purpose. These are not deer rifles. They are not target rifles. They are people killing rifles. Let’s stop pretending they’re not.

With this in mind, is anybody surprised that nearly every mass shooter in recent US history has used an AR-15 to commit their crime? And why wouldn’t they? High capacity magazine, ease of loading and unloading, almost no recoil, really accurate even without a scope, but numerous scopes available for high precision, great from a distance or up close, easy to carry, and readily available. You can buy one at Wal-Mart, or just about any sports store, and since they’re long guns, I don’t believe you have to be any more than 18 years old with a valid ID. This rifle was made for the modern mass shooter, especially the young one. If he could custom design a weapon to suit his sinister purposes, he couldn’t do a better job than Armalite did with this one already.

This rifle is so deadly and so easy to use that no civilian should be able to get their hands on one. We simply don’t need these things in society at large. I always find it interesting that when I was in the Army, and part of my job was to be incredibly proficient with this exact weapon, I never carried one at any point in garrison other than at the range. Our rifles lived in the arms room, cleaned and oiled, ready for the next range day or deployment. We didn’t carry them around just because we liked them. We didn’t bluster on about barracks defense and our second amendment rights. We tucked our rifles away in the arms room until the next time we needed them, just as it had been done since the Army’s inception. The military police protected us from threats in garrison. They had 9 mm Berettas to carry. They were the only soldiers who carry weapons in garrison. We trusted them to protect us, and they delivered. With notably rare exceptions, this system has worked well. There are fewer shootings on Army posts than in society in general, probably because soldiers are actively discouraged from walking around with rifles, despite being impeccably well trained with them. Perchance, we could have the largely untrained civilian population take a page from that book?

I understand that people want to be able to own guns. That’s ok. We just need to really think about how we’re managing this. Yes, we have to manage it, just as we manage car ownership. People have to get a license to operate a car, and if you operate a car without a license, you’re going to get in trouble for that. We manage all things in society that can pose a danger to other people by their misuse. In addition to cars, we manage drugs, alcohol, exotic animals (there are certain zip codes where you can’t own Serval cats, for example), and fireworks, among other things. We restrict what types of businesses can operate in which zones of the city or county. We have a whole system of permitting for just about any activity a person wants to conduct since those activities could affect others, and we realize, as a society, that we need to try to minimize the risk to other people that comes from the chosen activities of those around them in which they have no say. Gun ownership is the one thing our country collectively refuses to manage, and the result is a lot of dead people.

I can’t drive a Formula One car to work. It would be really cool to be able to do that, and I could probably cut my commute time by a lot. Hey, I’m a good driver, a responsible Formula One owner. You shouldn’t be scared to be on the freeway next to me as I zip around you at 140 MPH, leaving your Mazda in a cloud of dust! Why are you scared? Cars don’t kill people. People kill people. Doesn’t this sound like bullshit? It is bullshit, and everybody knows. Not one person I know would argue non-ironically that Formula One cars on the freeway are a good idea. Yet, these same people will say it’s totally ok to own the firearm equivalent because, in the words of comedian Jim Jeffries, “fuck you, I like guns”.

Yes, yes, I hear you now. We have a second amendment to the constitution, which must be held sacrosanct over all other amendments. Dude. No. The constitution was made to be a malleable document. It’s intentionally vague. We can enact gun control without infringing on the right to bear arms. You can have your deer rifle. You can have your shotgun that you love to shoot clay pigeons with. You can have your target pistol. Get a license. Get a training course. Recertify at a predetermined interval. You do not need a military grade rifle. You don’t. There’s no excuse.

“But we’re supposed to protect against tyranny! I need the same weapons the military would come at me with!” Dude. You know where I can get an Apache helicopter and a Paladin?! Hook a girl up! Seriously, though, do you really think you’d be able to hold off the government with an individual level weapon? Because you wouldn’t. One grenade, and you’re toast. Don’t have these illusions of standing up to the government, and needing military style rifles for that purpose. You’re not going to stand up to the government with this thing. They’d take you out in about half a second.

Let’s be honest. You just want a cool toy, and for the vast majority of people, that’s all an AR-15 is. It’s something fun to take to the range and put some really wicked holes in a piece of paper. Good for you. I know how enjoyable that is. I’m sure for a certain percentage of people, they might not kill anyone driving a Formula One car down the freeway, or owning a Cheetah as a pet, or setting off professional grade fireworks without a permit. Some people are good with this stuff, and some people are lucky, but those cases don’t negate the overall rule. Military style rifles have been the choice du jour in the incidents that have made our country the mass shootings capitol of the world. Formula One cars aren’t good for commuting. Cheetahs are bitey. Professional grade fireworks will probably take your hand off. All but one of these are common sense to the average American. Let’s fix that. Be honest, you don’t need that AR-15. Nobody does. Society needs them gone, no matter how good you may be with yours. Kids are dying, and it’s time to stop fucking around."
 
Reactions: SlowSpyder
Feb 4, 2009
35,254
16,729
136
Oh gosh, a liberal posting an anti-gun article. I'm so convinced now. My life has changed. I'll need to go out and buy an AR-15 just so I can get rid of it and feel all warm and liberal inside.

Good man Taj.
I think you are a little to the right of where I am and I think I'm a little to the left of where you are. This is an issue where we could work together to make something that is good.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,641
132
106
Why is the 2A different from other amendments when it says the people have certain rights? For example:

1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
2. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
4. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
9. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
10. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

But apparently I must be a sick person if I think it's the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed instead of the militia.
 
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Reactions: imported_tajmahal

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Why is the 2A different from other amendments when it says the people have certain rights? For example:

1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
2. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
4. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
9. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
10. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

But apparently I must be a sick person if I think it's the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed instead of the militia.
You're not sick. But it does sound like you are using motivated reasoning to arrive at the outcome you want.

Also, it's largely not up to any of us. It's the courts primarily, and potentially Congress. We'll see how this shakes out, but you may have to find a new hobby.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,641
132
106
You're not sick. But it does sound like you are using motivated reasoning to arrive at the outcome you want.

Also, it's largely not up to any of us. It's the courts primarily, and potentially Congress. We'll see how this shakes out, but you may have to find a new hobby.
You have not addressed the question. Why is it different for the 2A from the others? Maybe folks like you are motivated to think it doesn't mean what it says.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Those NRA campaign contributions speak the loudest to me.

No, the founding fathers wisdom speak loudest.

Democrats led by emotion, and "for the children" are revealing just how willing they are to give up their rights, from guns to speech, nothing is safe from your "safe space". Its no surprise that in europe left wing parties are pushing for voting ages to drop to 16, they know their ideology appeals to the ignorant and easily led.
 
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