Florida 'speed trap' town disbands police force

[The Merg]

Not in the US. There has to be a 45 zone in between.
FHWA mandates that state and federal highways, the maximum speed drop is 10mph between adjacent speed zones, and a maximal drop of 15mph when transitioning from limited access to non-limited access. Each speed zone also has a minimal segment length, designed to prevent this type of situation.

I wasn't trying to imply that the speed needed to drop from 55 directly to 30, but just that there was a drop in the limit from one to the other. If there was a drop first to 45 and then 30, so be it.

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

Absolutely.

So you feel that traffic laws are not valid? So someone that is drunk should be able to drive at will as long as they haven't hurt someone else yet?

Traffic lights are there for safety not for infraction purposes. Yes its okay to go through a red light but that doesn't remove you from the consequences.

And speed limits are there for safety as well. There's a reason why the speed limit in residential areas is 25 and not 55.

- Merg

 

[MrCassdin]

Having dealt with some municipalities on a professional level it is my experience that many speed limits are politically selected and have nothing to do with regulations or traffic engineer findings/research. So the idea that it is causing danger simply because the sign is posted is a tough pill to swallow. For instance, a town I lived in down in Florida had 35 and 25 mph speed limits on many roads which were designed for 45 mph, but for years they were less. Finally enough new council members were voted in and they were changed to the correct speeds for the design. In fact some were raised to 55 mph.

I take those signs with a grain of salt, and the traffic code in most areas says something along these lines when it comes to speed: "may not exceed a reasonable speed for conditions." which does not make mention of posted speed limits. Most speeding tickets are actually "failure to follow a road sign" and have nothing to do with what is safe or reasonable speed.

Just my two cents.

 

[The Merg]

Most speeding tickets are actually "failure to follow a road sign"

Around here, speeding convictions will get you points. Some cops are sympathetic to that when they stop someone with a good driving record. Instead of writing the ticket for speeding, they might write it for failing to obey a highway sign. That ticket doesn't have any points on it. Not sure what it is like in other states though.

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

Half of a town, city, county, whatevers revenue should not come from citations. That turns the police into a revenue generating entity instead of a law enforcement entity.

Why do you think he was trying to institute quotas, the towns budget required the police to continue writing at least as many citations. That is never ever a good thing and when that is the case this is usually the best possible outcome.

I don't disagree that quotas are bad. All that does is make a revenue generator out of cops. It even seems as though the cops of this town turned in the interim chief for trying to instill the quota. I thought that kinda implied that there was no quota beforehand.

- Merg

 

[sao123]

I wasn't trying to imply that the speed needed to drop from 55 directly to 30, but just that there was a drop in the limit from one to the other. If there was a drop first to 45 and then 30, so be it.

- Merg

My point was this... there was a time when the speed limit could drop from 55 to 25 and a cop could sit 250 feet beyond with posted sign, and then give you a ticket because unless you slammed on your brakes, there was no way you could be going the speed limit.

FHWA made the limit drop by a max of 10mph, and a minimum distance before the limit can change again, to give you safely time to slow down without having to brake heavily, and thus eliminate unfair tickets.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't disagree that quotas are bad. All that does is make a revenue generator out of cops. It even seems as though the cops of this town turned in the interim chief for trying to instill the quota. I thought that kinda implied that there was no quota beforehand.

- Merg

If half of the towns revenue comes from tickets the cops are already nothing but revenue generators. They are THE TOP revenue generators for the town before any quota was instituted. The quota was required in order to keep the revenue that the town had grown accustomed to, that's why you want to prevent these types of situations from ever getting this far.

 

[Darwin333]

My point was this... there was a time when the speed limit could drop from 55 to 25 and a cop could sit 250 feet beyond with posted sign, and then give you a ticket because unless you slammed on your brakes, there was no way you could be going the speed limit.

FHWA made the limit drop by a max of 10mph, and a minimum distance before the limit can change again, to give you safely time to slow down without having to brake heavily, and thus eliminate unfair tickets.

There is a stretch of highway around here that, seemingly for no reason (not saying there is NONE but nothing that I can see) the speed limit drops 15mph and the cops actually setup a nice little "blind" to sit in and tag you as soon as you pass the sign.

To add some irony to the situation, traveling the above stretch of road daily, I slow down well before the sign so I don't have to brake dangerously hard. I got friggen pulled over for going to slow within 100 yards of the reduced speed sign. I didn't actually get a ticket but I almost wish I did just to be able to go argue it in court, I had pics of the spot I was pulled over, the sign, and the cop waiting to give me a speeding ticket 100ish yards from where I got pulled over.

With the scam cams they have set up in the city I go 5mph under the speed limit after hearing a bunch of people getting tickets that were simply unavoidable in any sort of safe manner. Got pulled over for that once too but that was actually a pleasant experience, cop laughed his ass off and we bullshitted about guns for a bit.

 

[The Merg]

If half of the towns revenue comes from tickets the cops are already nothing but revenue generators. They are THE TOP revenue generators for the town before any quota was instituted. The quota was required in order to keep the revenue that the town had grown accustomed to, that's why you want to prevent these types of situations from ever getting this far.

Very true, but in a small town I have to wonder just how easy it is to have this type of situation. I really don't know myself.

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

My point was this... there was a time when the speed limit could drop from 55 to 25 and a cop could sit 250 feet beyond with posted sign, and then give you a ticket because unless you slammed on your brakes, there was no way you could be going the speed limit.

FHWA made the limit drop by a max of 10mph, and a minimum distance before the limit can change again, to give you safely time to slow down without having to brake heavily, and thus eliminate unfair tickets.

Gotcha.

Does anyone know what the speed limit was through the town limits (and outside the town limits) and if they followed FHWA regs?

- Merg

 

[sao123]

Gotcha.

Does anyone know what the speed limit was through the town limits (and outside the town limits) and if they followed FHWA regs?

- Merg

FHWA regs only apply to state and federal roads... so if its a township / city road, they may not.

 

[The Merg]

FHWA regs only apply to state and federal roads... so if its a township / city road, they may not.

The article refers to U.S. 301 and Highway 24. I would assume that 301 at least is a State highway.

- Merg

 

[Oldgamer]

10-4-2014

http://news.yahoo.com/florida-speed-trap-town-disbands-105100625.html

Florida 'speed trap' town disbands police force

The tiny town of Waldo in north Florida has such a notorious reputation as a speed trap that AAA erected billboards to warn drivers about it, but all that may be about to change.

On Tuesday, weeks after the police chief and interim chief resigned due to state investigations into ticket quotas, mishandling of evidence and other issues, Waldo's City Council disbanded its police force.


About half of the town's roughly $1 million budget comes from citations, according to its budget.

This sort of reminds me of that small city that had to disband and get rid of their entire police force because of the enormous law suits that bankrupted them. Damn wish I could find that article, I know I linked it here on Reddit months and months back.

 

[The Merg]

This sort of reminds me of that small city that had to disband and get rid of their entire police force because of the enormous law suits that bankrupted them. Damn wish I could find that article, I know I linked it here on Reddit months and months back.

I think I remember that. Maybe in Ohio or some other mid-West state?

- Merg

 

[MrPickins]

This sort of reminds me of that small city that had to disband and get rid of their entire police force because of the enormous law suits that bankrupted them. Damn wish I could find that article, I know I linked it here on Reddit months and months back.

I thought it was the same article...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2372599


lolFlorida



(I know, that's ironic coming from someone in TX)

 

[The Merg]

I thought it was the same article...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2372599


lolFlorida



(I know, that's ironic coming from someone in TX)

That's not the one I was thinking of... I'll keep trying to find it...

- Merg

 

[LegendKiller]

And you know the tickets were bogus, why?

According to the article, even citizens believe there was a speeding problem in the town.

And the disbandment of the department does not seem to be related to the fact that they wrote tickets. The only connection is that the interim chief was trying to make a strict quota, however, that implies that before he was in charge there was no strict quota.

As long as there is ample opportunity for people to slow down and noticed that the speed is being lowered, I don't see what the problem is. If you are speeding, you are speeding. You can get a ticket for that. there are plenty of roads were icy live where the speed limit is 55 and then drops down to 25 or 30 because you are going through a small town.

Because Mc0wned knows everything. He knows tornado strength by tv shots, he knows hurricane strength by radar tracks, he knows how bridges fall by pictures and he knows finance by being able to add 1+1.

 

[dmcowen674]

Because Mc0wned knows everything. He knows tornado strength by tv shots, he knows hurricane strength by radar tracks, he knows how bridges fall by pictures and he knows finance by being able to add 1+1.

You're learning, there's hope for you yet.

 

[feralkid]

Very true, but in a small town I have to wonder just how easy it is to have this type of situation. I really don't know myself.

- Merg

Google speed trap towns.

Both AAA and NMA have lists. Decide for yourself.

 

[The Merg]

Google speed trap towns.

Both AAA and NMA have lists. Decide for yourself.

I was more referring where it could legitimately happen. There have to be places that are small enough to not have a very high tax base, yet due to their location receive a lot of commuter/through traffic. Obviously setting up a speed trap right at the spot where the speed limit increases or decreases is a little suspect, but I'm sure there are places where the speed traps are in the middle of the town where a person has had plenty of time to slow down.

Thinking about it, there is actually one town near me that is somewhat of this type of situation. There is a major state road (4 lanes) that goes through the town. The town itself is basically the shape of a dumbell with the state road running perpendicular through the handle of the dumbell. The speed on the state road is 45 MPH normally. However, when in the jurisdiction for the town the speed is 25 MPH (every road in the town is 25 MPH). The length of the roadway on the state road is about a 1/2 mile (maybe a little more, but definitely less than a mile). There is one traffic light about half way through. The cops usually sit south of the traffic light watching southbound traffic. I've never really seen them sitting on the northend watching northbound traffic.

- Merg

 

[CLite]

I thought it was the same article...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2372599


lolFlorida



(I know, that's ironic coming from someone in TX)

I was getting confused reading the OP article because I swore the story was about a town that bought a long narrow lot to extend into a highway and then started ticketing, the OP town however seemed to be built entirely around the highway.

Now I see it's another town, the story you linked being the one I was thinking of.

lolFlorida /seconded

 

[unokitty]

As CBS News reported last month, Waldo's seven police officers wrote nearly 12,000 speeding tickets last year, collecting more than $400,000 in fines - a third of the town's revenue.

The town had six different speed limits in just a couple of miles. Drivers enter the city at 65 miles per hour. It then drops to 55, 45 and then 35.

Asked if the situation "rings well" with him, Gordon Smith, the sheriff in neighboring Bradford County, said: "It doesn't because you're creating this cash cow. Where there's cash register justice."

..."That's legalized robbery," Smith said. "And we shouldn't be doing that."

Waldo has long carried the notoriety as a speed trap with black and white patrol cars working busy stretches of U.S. 301 and State Road 24, but that began to change last month when its last police chief, Mike Szabo, was suspended pending the results of a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation.

On Aug. 26, five Waldo officers revolted against Szabo and Cpl. Kenneth Smith with a presentation before the City Council that was rife with allegations that included an unlawful ticket quota, deceptive court appearances and unethical evidence storage.

Shortly after the presentation, Waldo City Manager Kim Worley also suspended Smith, with the launch of a second FDLE investigation. Both Szabo and Smith later resigned...

During the Tuesday night meeting, Worley said an audit of the department conducted by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined that the city would need to drastically update its storage facilities and computer systems to keep up with standards required for criminal investigations.

1 town
1,000 residents
7 police officers
12,000 tickets issued annually
$400,000 annual traffic ticket revenue
1 suspended police chief
1 suspended acting police chief
1 failed state audit
2 ongoing state investigations

1 neighbouring sheriff who described the situation as 'legalized robbery.'

LOL

Uno

 

[Genx87]

I wonder if the ole police chief was getting a bonus based on the amount of tickets issued?

 

[The Merg]

I wonder if the ole police chief was getting a bonus based on the amount of tickets issued?

It's generally illegal for any police officer to receive a portion of the proceeds from tickets. Generally, money received from tickets goes to into the General Fund for a town or county

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

1 town
1,000 residents
7 police officers
12,000 tickets issued annually
$400,000 annual traffic ticket revenue
1 suspended police chief
1 suspended acting police chief
1 failed state audit
2 ongoing state investigations

1 neighbouring sheriff who described the situation as 'legalized robbery.'

LOL

Uno

That's about 10 tickets per officer per day they work. While 10 tickets per day is not unheard of, doing that every day that you work is a lot for a regular patrol officer, unless you are specifically a traffic officer. However, I would doubt that all 7 officers for an entire town were assigned to traffic. Now even if half the officers were assigned for traffic, that means they'd be writing 20 tickets a day, which is still not unheard of for a traffic officer.

- Merg