Florida 'speed trap' town disbands police force

[HumblePie]

Many small towns around here in Texas, and more in north Texas, do egregious ticketing.

Some of them do it on purpose. When I was driving through north Texas previously, I would see small towns that would purposefully put a church or school On THE HIGHWAY to force motorists on the highway to slow down from 75 mph (speed limit) to 30 mph to go through the school or church 'zone' that they created on purpose on the highway. Cops would just sit there all the time day and night just out of sight because the cops would literally build "hunting" blinds for their cars. There would be one warning sign, usually most blocked by some overgrown tree, that was about 100 yards from the 'zone' that would have the words "Reduced Speed Zone Ahead" and then bamm! massive drop in speed from 75 to 30. The setup wasn't done that way haphazardly, but completely on purpose to create a trap to get massive tickets. Motorists are then fined huge amounts for going usually because they are now going 45 mph or more in a small 100 yard reduced speed zone stretch that also happens to be a church or school so the ticket fine can be doubled. What's worse is about half those towns conveniently would have some sort of "construction" nearby as well where nothing ever gets done in the decades that construction area has been there, but allows the fines on the tickets to be increased even more.

Spots like that aren't meant for safety at all. It's meant for making money. A small town like that which is actually concerned for safety wouldn't put a church or school on the middle of a damn highway and hope that motorists slow down from 75 to 30 in less than 100 yards to go through another 100 yard stretch of a reduced speed zone. There is no reason for that setup except to trap people for fines. If concerned about safety of the town, you build the church or school somewhere safer in town away from a high speed road.

 

[Texashiker]

I'll bite, law dog.

Who's the victim?

Governments have the right to protect the health and welfare of its citizens.

The victim is when you are speeding and run over a child.

 

[The Merg]

Many small towns around here in Texas, and more in north Texas, do egregious ticketing.

Some of them do it on purpose. When I was driving through north Texas previously, I would see small towns that would purposefully put a church or school On THE HIGHWAY to force motorists on the highway to slow down from 75 mph (speed limit) to 30 mph to go through the school or church 'zone' that they created on purpose on the highway. Cops would just sit there all the time day and night just out of sight because the cops would literally build "hunting" blinds for their cars. There would be one warning sign, usually most blocked by some overgrown tree, that was about 100 yards from the 'zone' that would have the words "Reduced Speed Zone Ahead" and then bamm! massive drop in speed from 75 to 30. The setup wasn't done that way haphazardly, but completely on purpose to create a trap to get massive tickets. Motorists are then fined huge amounts for going usually because they are now going 45 mph or more in a small 100 yard reduced speed zone stretch that also happens to be a church or school so the ticket fine can be doubled. What's worse is about half those towns conveniently would have some sort of "construction" nearby as well where nothing ever gets done in the decades that construction area has been there, but allows the fines on the tickets to be increased even more.

Spots like that aren't meant for safety at all. It's meant for making money. A small town like that which is actually concerned for safety wouldn't put a church or school on the middle of a damn highway and hope that motorists slow down from 75 to 30 in less than 100 yards to go through another 100 yard stretch of a reduced speed zone. There is no reason for that setup except to trap people for fines. If concerned about safety of the town, you build the church or school somewhere safer in town away from a high speed road.

While I don't doubt that there are areas with that issue, I find it hard to believe that a town would purpsely put a school along a highway just so that they can create a speed trap. Also, how would the town purposely have a Church built along the highway. Wouldn't it be up to the Board Members of the Church to determine where they wanted their Church built?

With regards to blocked signage, if you can show that the sign was blocked from view that warned you to reduce speed, you can generally get out of the ticket then. I've seen a judge throw out a whole officer's docket since a shrub was blocking view of a stop sign. After the third case, the judge asked anyone in court that received a ticket from the officer for a stop sign violation at that intersection to stand up. He then told them all that their case was dismissed and to have a nice day. The look on the officer's face was classic.

- Merg

 

[Genx87]

It's generally illegal for any police officer to receive a portion of the proceeds from tickets. Generally, money received from tickets goes to into the General Fund for a town or county

- Merg

That is why I proposed this as a reason for their suspension from the states investigation.

 

[The Merg]

That is why I proposed this as a reason for their suspension from the states investigation.

Gotcha.

Although the article states that the Chief was suspended due to possibly recording conversations with other officers.

The Interim Chief was suspended for trying to institute the quotas and mishandling of evidence.

- Merg

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Governments have the right to protect the health and welfare of its citizens.

The victim is when you are speeding and run over a child.

Which child was run over?

 

[HumblePie]

While I don't doubt that there are areas with that issue, I find it hard to believe that a town would purpsely put a school along a highway just so that they can create a speed trap. Also, how would the town purposely have a Church built along the highway. Wouldn't it be up to the Board Members of the Church to determine where they wanted their Church built?

With regards to blocked signage, if you can show that the sign was blocked from view that warned you to reduce speed, you can generally get out of the ticket then. I've seen a judge throw out a whole officer's docket since a shrub was blocking view of a stop sign. After the third case, the judge asked anyone in court that received a ticket from the officer for a stop sign violation at that intersection to stand up. He then told them all that their case was dismissed and to have a nice day. The look on the officer's face was classic.

- Merg

Oh, if it the tickets are fought in those places they are generally dismissed on appeal. I know because I've done exactly that. Many times the church put on the highway there isn't the church the town actually attends. It's a dummy church. It's there for revenue generation specifically. The local police and judges are all in on it. Which is why I say you have to appeal the tickets, because if you take it to the local court only you will lose regardless. On appeal, just pointing out the partial hidden signs and other problems tends to make it poof. But that means sinking in the cost to go to appeals court along with the time and effort. These setups know that the vast majority of people getting issued these tickets aren't going to fight them. That is why they do this.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Of course these were bogus the whole system there was setup to write and excessive amount of tickets. Only a knuckle dragging COP would attempt to defend this.

FTFY

 

[The Merg]

Oh, if it the tickets are fought in those places they are generally dismissed on appeal. I know because I've done exactly that. Many times the church put on the highway there isn't the church the town actually attends. It's a dummy church. It's there for revenue generation specifically. The local police and judges are all in on it. Which is why I say you have to appeal the tickets, because if you take it to the local court only you will lose regardless. On appeal, just pointing out the partial hidden signs and other problems tends to make it poof. But that means sinking in the cost to go to appeals court along with the time and effort. These setups know that the vast majority of people getting issued these tickets aren't going to fight them. That is why they do this.

Big difference between here and Texas then. Generally, here the judges will toss those cases first time up. No need to be found guilty and then appeal it.

If you are found guilty, you appeal it to Circuit Court (just upstairs) and pay a $100 bond. If you win the appeal, you get the bond back. If you lose, it goes towards your court costs/fees.

- Merg

 

[HumblePie]

Big difference between here and Texas then. Generally, here the judges will toss those cases first time up. No need to be found guilty and then appeal it.

If you are found guilty, you appeal it to Circuit Court (just upstairs) and pay a $100 bond. If you win the appeal, you get the bond back. If you lose, it goes towards your court costs/fees.

- Merg

HAHAHA, the judges around here are in the small towns are buddy buddy with the cops. Again, I have had to fight 2 of those stupid tickets, and won mind you, from these small town speed trap setups.

One cool thing about Texas is you can request a jury trial for a speeding ticket. If the town isn't too small, they HATE that. Usually because they know the jury will more than likely toss the case AND the costs incurred in paying for a jury make pursuing the ticket not even worth it anymore.

As for the appeal, the appeal courts here aren't usually in the same municipality. Also, the bond cost is much higher. Last time I check it was like $400 for the bond to appeal. Which is a heavy discouragement, on purpose, for people to appeal and fight the ticket.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Which child was run over?

In that little town, probably none. Are you saying that speeding laws shouldn't be put in place and enforced until someone gets run over? In this particular case, speeding tickets were being issued at an abnormally high rate which should be cause for investigation. It may be that the police have quotas, not enough signs to notify people to slow down, or a bunch of other reasons.

Either way, speed limits are in place for the safety of not only others but drivers themselves.

 

[The Merg]

HAHAHA, the judges around here are in the small towns are buddy buddy with the cops. Again, I have had to fight 2 of those stupid tickets, and won mind you, from these small town speed trap setups.

One cool thing about Texas is you can request a jury trial for a speeding ticket. If the town isn't too small, they HATE that. Usually because they know the jury will more than likely toss the case AND the costs incurred in paying for a jury make pursuing the ticket not even worth it anymore.

As for the appeal, the appeal courts here aren't usually in the same municipality. Also, the bond cost is much higher. Last time I check it was like $400 for the bond to appeal. Which is a heavy discouragement, on purpose, for people to appeal and fight the ticket.

Here, there is no jury trial available in General District Court (traffic and criminal misdemeanors). If you appeal to Circuit Court, you can ask for a jury trial.

- Merg

 

[dmcowen674]

1 town
1,000 residents
7 police officers
12,000 tickets issued annually
$400,000 annual traffic ticket revenue
1 suspended police chief
1 suspended acting police chief
1 failed state audit
2 ongoing state investigations

1 neighbouring sheriff who described the situation as 'legalized robbery.'

and a forum full of people that support the thug police.

Very sad times we live in now.

 

[master_shake_]

Governments have the right to protect the health and welfare of its citizens.

The victim is when you are speeding and run over a child.

so there are children playing on interstates...

interesting

 

[JockoJohnson]

and a forum full of people that support the thug police.

Very sad times we live in now.

Who is supporting this? Pull your head out of your ass and realize that not every issue is R vs. D or Liberal vs. Conservative. There is plenty of agreement that people don't like dirty cops or a dirty system.

 

[JockoJohnson]

so there are children playing on interstates...

interesting

So interstates shouldn't have speed limits?

 

[HumblePie]

So interstates shouldn't have speed limits?

They dont in many countries.

 

[simpletron]

I was curious of how bad the speed trap could be, so I look on google maps for the speed limits signs. The signs on hwy 24 goes 65mph -> warning 55mph ahead -> 55mph -> warning 45mph ahead -> 45mph -> warning 35mph ahead -> 35mph. The warning 55mph ahead sign is right at the city limits and ~0.6 miles later is the 35 mph sign. Hwy 24 is a divided hwy with two lanes of traffic in both directions, even through town. In town, there are no stop lights or four-way stops; there is a school zone with a limit of 15 mph when flashing near a park without a school. I bet the cops get a lot of people who were going 65-70 on open road who just coast to 50-55 where the 35mph sign is or the 15 mph light flashs all the time and cops get them there.

 

[HumblePie]

I was curious of how bad the speed trap could be, so I look on google maps for the speed limits signs. The signs on hwy 24 goes 65mph -> warning 55mph ahead -> 55mph -> warning 45mph ahead -> 45mph -> warning 35mph ahead -> 35mph. The warning 55mph ahead sign is right at the city limits and ~0.6 miles later is the 35 mph sign. Hwy 24 is a divided hwy with two lanes of traffic in both directions, even through town. In town, there are no stop lights or four-way stops; there is a school zone with a limit of 15 mph when flashing near a park without a school. I bet the cops get a lot of people who were going 65-70 on open road who just coast to 50-55 where the 35mph sign is or the 15 mph light flashs all the time and cops get them there.

Yep, sounds like some of the towns around here. No real reason for the reduced speed areas, and done in such a way to be very hard to slow down fast enough in a long enough time frame to be considered safe.

 

[DigDog]

FTFY

Where there's no victim there's no crime. Traffic infractions are no different. Who's the offended party making the claim?

So, attempted murder is not a crime, because you didn't kill anyone.

Speeding means the victim is the person you kill .. statistically.

It's not a crime ofc, but it's an enforceable law; the same way that driving down the wrong side of the road is also not a crime .. until you wreck someone.


Anyway, the whole point isn't that speeders got tickets, is that they had speed traps. Where the word "trap" means "trap" - you can't get down to the required speed limit in time, or the signs are hidden.

 

[Darwin333]

So interstates shouldn't have speed limits?

Look, the bottom line is that traffic laws should stem and be enforced for safety reasons and not revenue generation for the local jackboots. Period. Full stop. End of story.

If a town is getting half of its yearly revenue from traffic tickets then the police are writing tickets to generate revenue and not for safety. It really isn't that difficult of a concept to understand.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

In that little town, probably none. Are you saying that speeding laws shouldn't be put in place and enforced until someone gets run over? In this particular case, speeding tickets were being issued at an abnormally high rate which should be cause for investigation. It may be that the police have quotas, not enough signs to notify people to slow down, or a bunch of other reasons.

Either way, speed limits are in place for the safety of not only others but drivers themselves.

I was replying to a post that said a little child was the victim. I was simply pointing out that there wasn't actually a victim. Please don't try to read anything more into what I say than what I actually say

 

[Pipeline 1010]

So, attempted murder is not a crime, because you didn't kill anyone.

Bad analogy. Attempted murder is not murder because you didn't kill anyone. If you killed them, it would be murder. If you tried but failed, it would be ATTEMPTED murder, which is still a crime and still has a victim.

 

[Darwin333]

So, attempted murder is not a crime, because you didn't kill anyone.

The only way that analogy works is if the speeder is trying to kill a child but misses, are you implying that a few hundred dollar ticket actually deters someone who is intent on killing a child, in this case with their vehicle, from doing so?

 

[doubledeluxe]

Merg you sound like a really fun guy to have at parties.