Totally agree. While the manager didn’t use any racial slurs her actions were super biased.
That’s what you were referring to, right?
I see your "Bullshit" and raise you a "Actions speak louder than words".
Starbucks to Close All Stores Nationwide for Racial-Bias Education on May 29
Are you sure you aren't mistaking me for someone else? You just attributed to me a ton of utter crap I never, ever said.
I never asked for 100% proof.
Now, unless you've got proof
Now I'll admit I could be wrong. I don't have a crystal ball to see into the heart of that manager and know why she did what she did
I never said that if the manager admitted it was race that drove her that I wouldn't accept her statement. And I never said shit about the dumbass Trump.
What I have said from the beginning is that lacking reasonable evidence otherwise, I find it easier to believe she was simply following store policy or just needed the tables for paying customers rather than she decided to engage in a bit of public racism and risk her job and safety and start one hell of a holy shitstorm. I can't believe anyone would be that stupid, racist or not. Even if she was racist, to show it so openly and publicly is hardly something anyone with an IQ over 50 would try. Is this what everyone yelling racism wants us to believe?
I can't believe rational people believe it's easier to accept that she went batshit racist in public, than she just needed those tables. As said many times in this very thread, racist folks usually try to hide it. They don't often exercise it in a way that is sure to cost them at least their job.
And on a personal note, I would have to be pretty darn sure before I called ANYONE a racist. Kinda the whole innocent until at least reasonable sure the person is guilty. I wish more folks felt the same way.
You are poisoned by racism and will never rise above reveling in it.
Please quote people properly next time. The way you did it means I didn't get a notification that someone had responded to something I wrote, and to others it won't be obvious who you're responding to. I only noticed after scan-reading and a double-take that some of the quotes looked familiar.
You're asking a lot of unanswerable questions and then you led to your opinion that maybe it's not racism. Maybe it isn't, which is a fairly obvious inference from the post you responded to.
Well that makes two of us and after this incident its going to stay that way.Damn the one day I wanted to go to Starbucks. But never been to a starbucks never had starbucks.
Implicit bias doesn't mean someone is racist. With that attitude, you could say things like similar to me bias = sexism or other nonsense
As an aside, I looked at a link posted here after I responded and found out that she's quite young and now has a masters in Spanish, which adds weight to other explanations besides racism.
<refreshes the page in question to make sure the word "RACIAL" hadn't since disappeared from the headline I quoted> Yeah, didn't think so.
I've already given my opinion about naysayers to the racism argument needing to ignore evidence in order to hold their opinion, I see no reason to re-word it, especially since you're adding weight to it. I'm just surprised someone would do it so obviously, especially after reading that post.
A small amount, but being educated in an irrelevant topic and youth are hardly game-changers with regard to the topic in hand.
You even say you're not sure, yet you want to assume it's racism. It could easily be implicit bias.
Being educated I'm sure is correlated with less racial animus. Same with being young. And she has the degrees in Spanish. Don't believe that's a degree deplorables get.
I said I'd want to be darn sure before I did, right? Well, after reading his posts and the statement in his signature (that's the one that really got me to thinking) I am pretty darn sure that he is....YOU ALREADY DID CALL SOMEONE RACIST! IN THIS VERY THREAD!
It's hard to argue when the only two options you seem willing to accept are either the manager is 1) knowingly racist or 2) just not self-aware enough understand she is racist. Is that true for every non-minority? Every person regardless of race?I don't want to assume such a thing, it's my considered opinion from the available evidence. I don't subscribe to the idea that there's an awful lot of difference between someone who is wilfully ignorant (ie. an overt racist who for example uses racial epithets as part of an insult) and plain ignorance: someone who in this freaking day and age still hasn't bothered to examine their thoughts and feelings on topics like race, gender, sexuality, etc, and then proceeds to discriminate against people because of it. Anyone who has worked in a customer-facing role should have engaged in reflective practice every time a slightly less-than-stellar customer service situation has occurred, or when they find themselves thinking things about people and critically analyse those opinions. She was a freaking manager. How can she not have done this already? I've never been a manager and I do it all the freaking time!
Furthermore, trying to determine whether someone was acting due to unconscious bias or they're just trying to cover up their intended bigotry is an exercise in futility IMO, and even if I somehow knew for a fact that in this case it was implicit bias with regard to race as opposed to overt racism, it wouldn't change my opinion that it's time this person looked for another job and more importantly reflect on their intolerance; maybe she'll conclude that it's not her fault but society's and she was made a scapegoat by PC types in management bending over backwards to appease the Cult of the Extreme Left and maybe subsquently upgrade her status to a full-on racist. Maybe she'll be more careful in future and confine her racism to posting dick-ish things about non-whites on forums/social media under a different name. Maybe she'll own her actions at least to herself and consciously make the effort to ensure she won't do any stupid shit like that again. Who knows.
You've already made this argument, I've already responded to it. This isn't anything new.
It's hard to argue when the only two options you seem willing to accept are either the manager is 1) knowingly racist or 2) just not self-aware enough understand she is racist. Is that true for every non-minority? Every person regardless of race?
That kind of thinking makes me fall back on my earlier question: "is there ever an instance when a black non-customer can be asked to leave a Starbucks and it not be racism?" And please don't add in "not when whites are never asked to leave" like that's some kind of established fact. Because it's not.
I said I'd want to be darn sure before I did, right? Well, after reading his posts and the statement in his signature (that's the one that really got me to thinking) I am pretty darn sure that he is.
esquared sig said:"here's no way that the white race can make up to the blacks for the villainy they have perpetrated against them" - unknown author.
Try reading the conversation between him and myself: He asked whether I had considered implicit bias rather than racism. My response therefore was to discuss those two options. Furthermore, I have talked about other possibilities earlier in the thread.
Quote some statements from him that have convinced you that he's racist.
As for his sig, I assume you're referring to this: ""There's no way that the white race can make up to the blacks for the villainy they have perpetrated against them" - unknown author."
At face value, I entirely agree with it. The course of history has basically been forever altered for countries where thousands of people were kidnapped and sold into slavery, both from economical and societal development perspectives, not to mention the normalisation of attitudes regarding the moral question of whether subjugating people based on notions of racial superiority is OK. Nothing can be done to change any of that or make it better. The best a civilised society can do is to be mindful of the fact that at least shadows of such attitudes towards non-whites still lingers and to do its best to ensure that everyone is treated fairly in future.
If the person we are referring to believes what you just expressed in his heart I would be happy to hear it. From the postings of his I have read I still have my doubts.
The idea that all whites are racist and just need the proper education and training to realize it is absolute bullshit. Sorry, that not really directed at you, just something that I feel strongly about. Each individual needs to be judge according to the content of their character, which is impossible if you believe everyone is racist.
He tries to play middle of the road but his conservative incognito routine has left him exposed.Ok, you've gone from being certain he's racist to having doubts, and you've provided no evidence that he's racist despite advocating being certain saying such a thing. Your opinion is coming across as a confused and hypocritical mess.
I find this way interesting. Seems Starbucks was instructing its employees to ask non-customers to leave, assuming these reports are to be believed. I don't know why this post and aspect of the story hasn't been discussed more. It supports the idea that the manager may have only been following policy.
There’s a missing piece to the story.i just don’t buy it that the manager called 911 because they hadn’t bought something in two minutes. Racist or not. Something else happened. No clue what and I doubt we’ll ever hear.
Yep and I'm sure all the witnesses, the store manager, and the police are all involved in this BLM conspiracy.
/s
I don't know if its true but my gut says it's true- the mantra of the brain dead
Typical, white people are always looking for an excuse to dismiss the racism that exists and that the victims have been telling us exists for years as we covered our eyes and ears.Has there been interviews with witnesses, managers, police, etc? I have no idea, haven’t read through 15 pages.
Typical, white people are always looking for an excuse to dismiss the racism that exists and that the victims have been telling us exists for years as we covered our eyes and ears.
Or a story sounds incredibly absurd, and generally when that’s the case there’s more to it than the side we’re hearing. Not saying the manager isn’t racist or race played a factor. I’m saying it sounds pretty incredible that 911 was dialed within two minutes over absolutely nothing.
Has there been interviews with witnesses, managers, police, etc? I have no idea, haven’t read through 15 pages.
Has there been interviews with witnesses, managers, police, etc? I have no idea, haven’t read through 15 pages.
Or a story sounds incredibly absurd, and generally when that’s the case there’s more to it than the side we’re hearing. Not saying the manager isn’t racist or race played a factor. I’m saying it sounds pretty incredible that 911 was dialed within two minutes over absolutely nothing.
Has there been interviews with witnesses, managers, police, etc? I have no idea, haven’t read through 15 pages.
Or a story sounds incredibly absurd, and generally when that’s the case there’s more to it than the side we’re hearing. Not saying the manager isn’t racist or race played a factor. I’m saying it sounds pretty incredible that 911 was dialed within two minutes over absolutely nothing.