Footage of two black men handcuffed in Starbucks prompts police investigation

[Paladin3]

Please don't project your absolutism on to anyone you perceive to have the opposite of your opinion. You're the one who's been asking for proof all the way along, and you know that the only way that proof could materialise would be if the person who asked them to leave admitted they were being racist, which is extremely unlikely to happen (anything less is simply highly suggestive evidence, just like what has already happened). Most (if not all) of the people you're arguing with don't need proof to accept what is highly probable to be probably true.

Believe what you like. No-one here is going to convince you otherwise.

So, lacking any evidence (I've been using that word rather than "proof" in most of my later comments because it's more accurate) it's okay to assume the worst is probably true?

 

[mikeymikec]

Come on dude, own your absolutism already, even in your previous post you already confirmed what I only suggesting at the time of writing was probably true:

I don't have a crystal ball to see into the heart of that manager and know why she did what she did

Then you went on to accuse esquared of racism despite no evidence whatsoever:

You are poisoned by racism and will never rise above reveling in it.

So don't pretend that you're suddenly being more reasonable now, because there's even the absolutist gem in your last response to me, emphasis mine:

So, lacking any evidence (I've been using that word rather than "proof" in most of my later comments because it's more accurate) it's okay to assume the worst if probably true?

But to answer your question despite your persistent bias, yes, it's okay to for us to make assumptions based on the evidence available. You've been doing a fair bit of assuming yourself, if you bother to engage in a bit of critical analysis.

 

[Starbuck1975]

WhoTF says that? No one. I have never heard anyone in any restaurant, coffee shop, store or place of business
say that to me or anyone I have been with, ever, at any anytime.

I’ve seen Starbucks managers ask people to leave if they’re clearly squatting to use the free wifi and not ordering anything, usually if its busy and seating is an issue. I’ve also seen this at Panera. Some leave, some order a drink or food. Race was never a factor when I’ve observed it. Usually age was.

 

[glenn1]

I’ve seen Starbucks managers ask people to leave if they’re clearly squatting to use the free wifi and not ordering anything, usually if its busy and seating is an issue. I’ve also seen this at Panera. Some leave, some order a drink or food. Race was never a factor when I’ve observed it. Usually age was.

I'm sure other factors come into play as well. For example, if a store manager was dealing with someone who said "I'm just waiting for a friend" but there were other reasons to ask them to leave (e.g. people known to be drug dealers, or covered in blood or other hazardous conditions, or a loitering repeat offender) then the manager would still be completely justified in asking them to leave even if they just arrived moments before. This is a hypothetical example and isn't the case here (unless more news comes out to prove me wrong), but it's not cut-and-dried as some are making it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'm sure other factors come into play as well. For example, if a store manager was dealing with someone who said "I'm just waiting for a friend" but there were other reasons to ask them to leave (e.g. people known to be drug dealers, or covered in blood or other hazardous conditions, or a loitering repeat offender) then the manager would still be completely justified in asking them to leave even if they just arrived moments before. This is a hypothetical example and isn't the case here (unless more news comes out to prove me wrong), but it's not cut-and-dried as some are making it.

It’s never cut and dry, which is why I despise social media frenzies before all the facts are out.

There is another Starbucks I frequent that is in close proximity to an area with a huge homeless problem. They lock the bathroom door because of it, and profile people to access it. The profiling is not race based but rather attire based.

 

[glenn1]

It’s never cut and dry, which is why I despise social media frenzies before all the facts are out.

There is another Starbucks I frequent that is in close proximity to an area with a huge homeless problem. They lock the bathroom door because of it, and profile people to access it. The profiling is not race based but rather attire based.

For all we know this is what might have gone down, minus actually purchasing the coffee of course.

 

[soulcougher73]

I wont way in on if this was racially motivated or not, but it sounds like they brought the arrest part upon themselves. Being asked to leave even if its racist is no reason to get yourself arrested over it.

 

[1prophet]

Has the person who called the cops on them been identified for public shaming and blacklisting from future jobs?

Why stop there, declare them public enemy number one and someday somewhere will dox them or swat them, the equivalent of calling some one a witch in the old days so the mob can take action while you take pleasure vicariously in the revenge you seek.

 

[Perknose]

I’ve seen Starbucks managers ask people to leave if they’re clearly squatting to use the free wifi and not ordering anything, usually if its busy and seating is an issue. I’ve also seen this at Panera. Some leave, some order a drink or food. Race was never a factor when I’ve observed it. Usually age was.

But in this case, seating was NOT an issue. Moreover other WHITE patrons were dumbfounded and upset that the police were called and were arresting the two guys. The manager erred big time. The question is why. Why would the manager go to such an extreme measure in this situation? Again, seating space was not an issue and the other (white) patrons were not only not bothered, but supportive of the two black guys. It's not hard to see that race probably played a salient part.

 

[senseamp]

Why stop there, declare them public enemy number one and someday somewhere will dox them or swat them, the equivalent of calling some one a witch in the old days so the mob can take action while you take pleasure vicariously in the revenge you seek.

Because we are a civilized society. So public shaming and blacklisting is sufficient.

 

[bshole]

Because we are a civilized society. So public shaming and blacklisting is sufficient.

Our murder and violent crime rates would beg to differ (a majority of other countries are less violent). Visit Singapore, Japan or South Korea to see what civilized societies actually look like. The difference is truly shocking.

The woman in question probably makes $10/hr. This puts her at the very bottom of the economic ladder. There probably is not much further she can go down other than welfare. I didn't realize that blacklisting absolute shit jobs was a thing.... that the job market in America is such a horror show that people are fighting for jobs that don't pay a living wage. Do I want this woman shamed and blacklisted? I dunno. I should think firing would be sufficient. I would rather have her working a new shit job than living on welfare.

Meanwhile in my own hometown.... the glories of being a fast food worker strike again. There appears to be a growing trend in Glendale to physically assault the fast food workers if they make a mistake on your order. This is like the 4th time something like this happened since I moved here.
http://www.wisn.com/article/incorrect-biscuit-leads-to-mcdonald-s-worker-s-attack/19496521

 

[Starbuck1975]

The manager erred big time. The question is why. Why would the manager go to such an extreme measure in this situation?

Calling the police was certainly an extreme response. In the examples I previously gave, some managers are more assertive than others in approaching non paying customers.

When I’ve encountered such scenarios play out, one of three things happen: the people buy something, the people leave or someone unnecessarily escalates the situation. In this case it seems the manager handled the situation poorly.

 

[mindless1]

WhoTF says that? No one. I have never heard anyone in any restaurant, coffee shop, store or place of business say that to me or anyone I have been with, ever, at any anytime.

I've both seen it happen dozens of times and done so myself years ago. Regular customers might get some latitude but others don't get to just hang out, particularly if they're disruptive or seating is limited so they're taking the seats of someone who would buy something. It seems even more appropriate at a coffee shop rather than a restaurant. You might not want to order food and eat ahead of someone else but coffee? No such social norm about coffee.

I wasn't there and can't claim this case wasn't racist, but I am sure that people get asked told to leave if not buying anything. It is possible this wasn't the first time these two were there without buying anything and didn't buy anything in the past at all. Waiting for a friend presumes buying something once the friend gets there at the very least but I don't feel that waiting to order applies to coffee.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Well shit, I've sat in Starbucks and not ordered something. Guess the ones around here don't care

*Note, I'm white.

Obviously your whiteness was acceptable to them. This was just wrong all the way around and the manager should've given them a few minutes while they waited for their friend. Personally I don't enter a facility until I'm ready to order so I can understand the manager's POV too. Being multiracial I have a firm grasp of racism having experienced it first hand many times in my life.

 

[IJTSSG]

1. 2 people walk into a coffee bar and ask for the restroom code, which is printed on receipts. They are told the bathroom is for paying customers only. They sit down.
2. The manager approaches them and asks them if they are going to place an order. They now say that they are waiting for someone. The mgr. says they need to order or leave. They repeat they are waiting for someone. Don't order, don't leave.
3. The mgr. calls the police to report trespassers.
4. The police arrive and ask the 2 people to leave. 3 times.
5. The 2 people are handcuffed, arrested and escorted from the premises.

That about covers it. Next.

 

[Noah Abrams]

Has the person who called the cops on them been identified for public shaming and blacklisting from future jobs?

Are you serious? I hope not

 

[Noah Abrams]

Now more people will brazenly use such places as their living rooms. No decent people won’t but there are countless who don’t fall anywhere close to decent category. Because of how trashy media has become and it’s endless hunger for click dollars

 

[VirtualLarry]

Are you serious? I hope not

Of course he is. SJWs are power-hungry whack-jobs, that just want to topple people in power so that THEY can be in power, dishing out their dictatorial / mob-rule, rather than the respected Rule of Law.

No civilized society can tolerate SJWs. We need to lock them up.

Edit: If you think it through, pretty-much ALL "mass shootings", are not due to "guns", but due to SJWs, or people just like them, that think that it's somehow acceptable to humans, to isolate, shame, blacklist, deprive someone of livelyhood and social interaction. The result is, there are unstable people out there, that instead of leaving and finding a new life somewhere else, they "take a stand". With sadly predictable results.

That factor is just but one reason why SJWs need to be locked up.

 

[Thebobo]

1. 2 people walk into a coffee bar and ask for the restroom code, which is printed on receipts. They are told the bathroom is for paying customers only. They sit down.
2. The manager approaches them and asks them if they are going to place an order. They now say that they are waiting for someone. The mgr. says they need to order or leave. They repeat they are waiting for someone. Don't order, don't leave.
3. The mgr. calls the police to report trespassers.
4. The police arrive and ask the 2 people to leave. 3 times.
5. The 2 people are handcuffed, arrested and escorted from the premises.

That about covers it. Next.

1. CEO of the company says manager was wrong
2. Manager fired

That about covers it.

 

[realibrad]

1. CEO of the company says manager was wrong
2. Manager fired

That about covers it.

That would have happened even if the manager was right.

 

[brycejones]

Now more people will brazenly use such places as their living rooms. No decent people won’t but there are countless who don’t fall anywhere close to decent category. Because of how trashy media has become and it’s endless hunger for click dollars

uh huh, please do go on

 

[mikeymikec]

Of course he is. SJWs are power-hungry whack-jobs, that just want to topple people in power so that THEY can be in power, dishing out their dictatorial / mob-rule, rather than the respected Rule of Law.

No civilized society can tolerate SJWs. We need to lock them up.

Edit: If you think it through, pretty-much ALL "mass shootings", are not due to "guns", but due to SJWs, or people just like them, that think that it's somehow acceptable to humans, to isolate, shame, blacklist, deprive someone of livelyhood and social interaction. The result is, there are unstable people out there, that instead of leaving and finding a new life somewhere else, they "take a stand". With sadly predictable results.

That factor is just but one reason why SJWs need to be locked up.

Let me just run this back to you: "I think senseamp's opinion is way over the top, but I can top that easily. Who's going to hold my beer? Where's my leather jacket and waterskis?"

If this had been your first post on this topic, I would have taken this as a possible parody of people like Blue_Max and 0roo0roo. However I'm pretty sure they would be in awe.

 

[Noah Abrams]

uh huh, please do go on

What do you even mean? I am no conservative and racism is an issue in the society. But it is crystal clear that the store did the right thing by their policy, and would have happened to anybody regardless of race. Plus they were asked to leave repeatedly and still did not. Only a certain kind of people are that brazen. This is just an example of the media creating news out of nothing to generate revenue.

 

[JSt0rm]

What do you even mean? I am no conservative and racism is an issue in the society. But it is crystal clear that the store did the right thing by their policy, and would have happened to anybody regardless of race. Plus they were asked to leave repeatedly and still did not. Only a certain kind of people are that brazen. This is just an example of the media creating news out of nothing to generate revenue.

my words

 

[DrunkenSano]

1. CEO of the company says manager was wrong
2. Manager fired

That about covers it.

Unfortunately the CEO wanted to protect the company's image at the cost of sacrificing a manager.