Footage of two black men handcuffed in Starbucks prompts police investigation

[senseamp]

I don't think calling the cops on someone, when they have clearly violated the law, is NOT "declaring themselves judge and jury".

And SJWs wonder why normal sane people think they have a mental illness?

Follow in her footsteps then. See how that works out for you.

 

[Paratus]

I don't think calling the cops on someone, when they have clearly violated the law, is NOT "declaring themselves judge and jury".

And SJWs wonder why normal sane people think they have a mental illness?

You seem very emotionally invested in defending this as not being discriminatory?

The cops were called after they waited 10-15 minutes. The CEO has apologized and stated Starbucks doesn’t condone racial profiling.

Yet you keep saying nothing was done wrong?

Care to explain?

 

[IJTSSG]

Were they there to use the bathroom or were they waiting on a friend?

 

[Xellos2099]

Using logic, the manager did nothing wrong. Using logic, is there any reasons why the young man stay at the table when they were asked to leave if they are not going to order anything?The 2 Young man escalated the issue by refusing to leave. What sort of idiots will remains on the area if they knew cops are coming. You can say maybe the manager escalated the issue but it is a lawful request

 

[Xellos2099]

You seem very emotionally invested in defending this as not being discriminatory?

The cops were called after they waited 10-15 minutes. The CEO has apologized and stated Starbucks doesn’t condone racial profiling.

Yet you keep saying nothing was done wrong?

Care to explain?

PR deparment. Humans are often govern by emotions than logic.

 

[senseamp]

Using logic, the manager did nothing wrong. Using logic, is there any reasons why the young man stay at the table when they were asked to leave if they are not going to order anything?The 2 Young man escalated the issue by refusing to leave. What sort of idiots will remains on the area if they knew cops are coming.

They were there without disturbing anyone for a business meeting waiting for the other party to arrive, at which point someone from the party may have ordered something. Nothing Starbucks said so far indicates they have any problem with that. But this manager did, so the question is why? One reason would be other customers wanting to sit down, but there was ample seating for other customers.The most likely explanation to most people is she is a racist. If she has an alternative explanation, she should bring it.

 

[purbeast0]

Using logic, the manager did nothing wrong. Using logic, is there any reasons why the young man stay at the table when they were asked to leave if they are not going to order anything?The 2 Young man escalated the issue by refusing to leave. What sort of idiots will remains on the area if they knew cops are coming. You can say maybe the manager escalated the issue but it is a lawful request

They were waiting to meet someone, which one can make the logical conclusion that once everyone was there, they would place an order and all sit down together, having their orders together at the same time.

 

[IJTSSG]

The CNN article says they came in, asked to use the bathroom and were told it was for paying customers only.

 

[Xellos2099]

See, you are using emotion. You are assuming it is a racist action. Let have another example, plenty of restaurant have the policy of only paying customer can use the washroom. If a black man gotr refuse because he is not buying anything, is ti still racist?

 

[senseamp]

See, you are using emotion. You are assuming it is a racist action. Let have another example, plenty of restaurant have the policy of only paying customer can use the washroom. If a black man gotr refuse because he is not buying anything, is ti still racist?

If it's selectively enforced only against black men, then yes, it's racist.

 

[Xellos2099]

They were waiting to meet someone, which one can make the logical conclusion that once everyone was there, they would place an order and all sit down together, having their orders together at the same time.

If it's selectively enforced only against black men, then yes, it's racist.

I see your point but I believe most people will leave if they are asked to leave. I been to plenty of restaurant where they require full party to be seated and I do not find it offensives.

 

[Paratus]

PR deparment. Humans are often govern by emotions than logic.

That’s true. Many people are emotionally invested in the just-world fallacy.

For Starbucks to be in the right legally they would have had to have asked the customers to leave for a reason other than being a minority and that reason could not have been a pretense.

As everyone directly involved with the incident, the witness and the customers, indicated they had done nothing disruptive before being asked to leave.

That leaves Starbucks policy to ask non paying to customer to leave the premises after 10-15 minutes being an actual policy and equally enforced. The CEOs statement do not support this mitigating view. They only suggest the local manager did not follow policy and an attempt to deal with this PR cluster fuck.

Therefore the logic and evidence strongly suggest illegal discriminatory intent at the time the customers were asked to leave.

So other than being emotionally invested against “social justice “ and equality under the law do you have some logic that specifically supports your view that the manger was in the right?

 

[purbeast0]

I see your point but I believe most people will leave if they are asked to leave. I been to plenty of restaurant where they require full party to be seated and I do not find it offensives.

So have I, dozens and dozens of times, and they never asked me to leave the restaurant while I waited.

 

[Xellos2099]

That’s true. Many people are emotionally invested in the just-world fallacy.

For Starbucks to be in the right legally they would have had to have asked the customers to leave for a reason other than being a minority and that reason could not have been a pretense.

As everyone directly involved with the incident, the witness and the customers, indicated they had done nothing disruptive before being asked to leave.

That leaves Starbucks policy to ask non paying to customer to leave the premises after 10-15 minutes being an actual policy and equally enforced. The CEOs statement do not support this mitigating view. They only suggest the local manager did not follow policy and an attempt to deal with this PR cluster fuck.

Therefore the logic and evidence strongly suggest illegal discriminatory intent at the time the customers were asked to leave.

So other than being emotionally invested against “social justice “ and equality under the law do you have some logic that specifically supports your view that they were in the right?

How about if they want to stay one of them have to order something? Actually we might not have all the information on hand atm. I remember I HAD to buy a fountain drink before I am allowed to use the washroom. Is that consider racists too?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Were they there to use the bathroom or were they waiting on a friend?

You could always try reading the linked article(s).

 

[Paratus]

How about if they want to stay one of them have to order something? Actually we might not have all the information on hand atm. I remember I HAD to buy a fountain drink before I am allowed to use the washroom. Is that consider racists too?

You seem to be struggling with the concept.

It’s not racist to ask you to buy something before using the bathroom. It’s racist to ask you to buy something because if your race, sex, disability, etc.

 

[UNCjigga]

The CNN article says they came in, asked to use the bathroom and were told it was for paying customers only.

The story I've seen everywhere is that they were waiting 12ish minutes for a man who they had a business meeting with (not sure if lawyer or real estate agent) he showed up as the 2 guys were getting arrested and tried to explain things to the cops, then gets visibly upset in the video (he's the white guy arguing with police in the viral video.)

Not ordering something as soon as you walk into a coffee shop is pretty normal, especially if you have a professional meeting. When I was meeting potential hiring managers for informational interviews, I'd show up at least 15 minutes early to secure a table. I wouldn't order anything because it's common courtesy to pay for the person I'm interviewing with, so I'd wait to get their order. Nobody ever asked me to leave, not once.

 

[rommelrommel]

She declared herself the judge and jury of those two men and got them arrested, and she should face the consequences you long for.

Even if she is racist and it doesn’t look good for her on that front, they got themselves arrested. They were given repeated lawful orders and should have left. Comply now, sue later.

 

[Paladin3]

Sorry, I've read the CEO's extended statement twice and he absolutely did not say that Starbucks or the manager of that store used race as a factor when she asked the two men to leave. He said the company was sorry for what happened, they would change policy and training to make sure it never happened again, and that the company is against racial profiling. None of that is admitting that they used racial profiling or is evidence that the manager was racist when she asked them to leave.

I'm not supporting what the manager did in any way. She may be racist and maybe singled out those two men specifically because they were black. It's possible, but that still doesn't prove the ejection was racially motivated. It's just as likely she wanted the table, or was on a mission to clear the store of non-customers for some other reason.

I'll say it again: In the minds of many on this board, there is no way a black man could be asked to leave a business and it NOT be racism.

 

[esquared]

Sorry, I've read the CEO's extended statement twice and he absolutely did not say that Starbucks or the manager of that store used race as a factor when she asked the two men to leave. He said the company was sorry for what happened, they would change policy and training to make sure it never happened again, and that the company is against racial profiling. None of that is admitting that they used racial profiling or is evidence that the manager was racist when she asked them to leave.

I'm not supporting what the manager did in any way. She may be racist and single out those two men specifically because they were black. That still doesn't prove the ejection was racially motivated.

I'll say it again: In the minds of many on this board, there is no way a black man could be asked to leave a business and it NOT be racism.

Your problem its right in front of you but you refuse to see. That CEO has made it clear just from the inferences. No rocket science is need to see it.
You have heard multiple people from this board and if you looked at the comments section of the article and
the twitter comments, we all say the same thing. You just flat out refuse to believe it.

My guess is wherever you're from, you don't have many African Americans and/or have no friends that have had these experiences
themselves or could explain it to you. These racist stories happen all the effing time, everywhere, in any population center where there are African Americans.

"I'll say it again: In the minds of many on this board, there is no way a black man could be asked to leave a business and it NOT be racism"
You are correct unless it was shown that the business was ejecting people of all races. No one yet has shown that to be the case.
Not a single piece of anecdotal evidence from anyone who said they were asked to leave a starbucks when waiting.

If anything the converse it true. Multiple people had said the waited longer than these two, "for their friends to show up" without being asked to leave,
at other establishments. This is an Occam's razor moment.

 

[JSt0rm]

See, you are using emotion. You are assuming it is a racist action. Let have another example, plenty of restaurant have the policy of only paying customer can use the washroom. If a black man gotr refuse because he is not buying anything, is ti still racist?

Are you autistic?

 

[mindless1]

No one yet has shown that to be the case.

No one has shown that not to be the case and in fact it is quite normal that EVERYONE is told that if they're not buying something then they have to leave. It's such a normal situation that it has even been a recurring scene in movies for decades.

This is a standard business practice that makes perfect sense.

 

[esquared]

No one has shown that not to be the case and in fact it is quite normal that EVERYONE is told that if they're not buying something then they have to leave. It's such a normal situation that it has even been a recurring scene in movies for decades.

This is a standard business practice that makes perfect sense.

"No one has shown that not to be the case"
Actually, we have posted multiple examples of that actually being the case. Read the posts here and
on the article and on twitter. They have been pointed out multiple times.

You like the few "others' here that refuse to believe what be said here? I don't care what you think
because you're the minority here and everywhere else.

"EVERYONE is told that if they're not buying something then they have to leave."
WhoTF says that? No one. I have never heard anyone in any restaurant, coffee shop, store or place of business
say that to me or anyone I have been with, ever, at any anytime.

 

[Paladin3]

Your problem its right in front of you but you refuse to see. That CEO has made it clear just from the inferences. No rocket science is need to see it.
You have heard multiple people from this board and if you looked at the comments section of the article and
the twitter comments, we all say the same thing. You just flat out refuse to believe it.

My guess is wherever you're from, you don't have many African Americans and/or have no friends that have had these experiences
themselves or could explain it to you. These racist stories happen all the effing time, everywhere, in any population center where there are African Americans.

"I'll say it again: In the minds of many on this board, there is no way a black man could be asked to leave a business and it NOT be racism"
You are correct unless it was shown that the business was ejecting people of all races. No one yet has shown that to be the case.
Not a single piece of anecdotal evidence from anyone who said they were asked to leave a starbucks when waiting.

If anything the converse it true. Multiple people had said the waited longer than these two, "for their friends to show up" without being asked to leave,
at other establishments. This is an Occam's razor moment.

I refuse to see nothing. I'm Mexican/Spanish on my father's side and was born in the Los Angeles Area. I was a newspaper photojournalist in the LA for many years covering things like the Rodney King beating and LA riots. I've covered gangs, hung out with undocumented day laborers and spent time with Latino leaders trying to better the lives of my people.

I also lived in the San Francisco East Bay area for four years, so I'm not some hick from the backwoods.

My mother's side of the family is from the Ozarks of Missouri and Oklahoma, so I've seen southern racism first hand. Now I live in North Idaho where the folks are polite, but darn white. Luckily, most folks keep opinions on race to themselves or it wouldn't be worth living up here regardless of how good the hunting, fishing and quite are.

My point is that I've seen and reported on enough racism, sexism, violence and hate in general for two lifetimes. You can claim the moral high ground and argue that I'm just too stupid or racist to see what you claim to be clear, but it's not true.

If you want to apply Occam's Razor then you've got it all wrong. It's far easier to believe that manager was just following Starbucks policy or needed the table than it is to believe she had enough hatred and racism in her heart to jeopardize her job and cause the shitstorm that has resulted. Now I'll admit I could be wrong. I don't have a crystal ball to see into the heart of that manager and know why she did what she did, like you seem to have.

Looking at the quotes in your signature I can see why you feel the way you do. Whites can never make up for the atrocities of the past, according to you. You are poisoned by racism and will never rise above reveling in it.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'll say it again: In the minds of many on this board, there is no way a black man could be asked to leave a business and it NOT be racism.

Please don't project your absolutism on to anyone you perceive to have the opposite of your opinion. You're the one who's been asking for proof all the way along, and you know that the only way that proof could materialise would be if the person who asked them to leave admitted they were being racist, which is extremely unlikely to happen (anything less is simply highly suggestive evidence, just like what has already happened). Most (if not all) of the people you're arguing with don't need proof to accept what is highly probable to be probably true.

Believe what you like. No-one here is going to convince you otherwise.