For Christians, By Christians.

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
For the majority, by the majority.

Which is not supposed to be how this country works. It should be majority rules with minority protection, last time I checked at least.

Yep.

 

[Tylanner]

Originally posted by: polm
The election has taught me that this country is NOT the land of freedom for all, or a land of equality.

As I watch the ban on Gay marriage pass in many states, and as I watch those who would choose to remove the rights of women to choose, I realize:

America is for Christians, by Christians. Everyone else just takes a back seat.

No america is NOT an anarchy.

And that is one COMFORTABLE back seat.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Snagle
Around %75 of the US citizens define themselves as christians. When you break it down, %20 of those Christians are Catholic and the rest are spread out among Protestant groups like Evangelicals and Baptists.

There are 102 million evangelicals and born agains in this country.

This was not about catholics. Last night was about protestant zealots flexing their muscle.

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: natedawg

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
For the majority, by the majority.

Then why didn't Gore win the last election?

I don't know why he didn't run this time. He would have won for sure

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: polm
what is the dominant religion in the USA ?

I believe of the people who claim a religion, that Christianity is first.

Your OP seemed to imply (to me, anyway) that Christians are responsible for the results of the gay marriage proposals. I was just asking if you believed that Christians were the only people voting against gay marriage, and if it was possible that non-religious or non-Christians people might also have been opposed.

of course it is not only possible, but guaranteed, that non-Chrisitans will vote many different ways.

My point is that the country must examine itself in terms of the basic bigger picture, before we can start to delve into the details.

As a whole this country is majority Christian. Majority rules, right ?

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: polm
what is the dominant religion in the USA ?

I believe of the people who claim a religion, that Christianity is first.

Your OP seemed to imply (to me, anyway) that Christians are responsible for the results of the gay marriage proposals. I was just asking if you believed that Christians were the only people voting against gay marriage, and if it was possible that non-religious or non-Christians people might also have been opposed.

of course it is not only possible, but guaranteed, that non-Chrisitans will vote many different ways.

My point is that the country must examine itself in terms of the basic bigger picture, before we can start to delve into the details.

As a whole this country is majority Christian. Majority rules, right ?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: assemblage
No one is stopping men from having relationships with each other. You also forget about the rights of innocent children when you talk about rights of women. No need to blame it on Christianity just because you hate Jesus.

Jesus was cool, it's his followers whom we need to be protected from.

Damn straight!

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: polm
what is the dominant religion in the USA ?

I believe of the people who claim a religion, that Christianity is first.

Your OP seemed to imply (to me, anyway) that Christians are responsible for the results of the gay marriage proposals. I was just asking if you believed that Christians were the only people voting against gay marriage, and if it was possible that non-religious or non-Christians people might also have been opposed.

and who would that be? bigots? why else would you oppose (or care for that matter) if a gay coupled wanted to be identified as a married couple?

why does this have to be even a legal issue? people are people are people....infinity. It's just sad because it is a move to make gay people seem inferior to the rest, and I thought as a nation we were moving beyond that way of thinking...

 

[Train]

Christians seem to be an easy scapegoat for all the democrats problems. Christians are not as big of a force as you make them out to be, nor do they vote strictly on religion. Nor does the fact that christians support of an issue make all supporters of that issue "christian fundamentalists"

The last demographic survey I saw on Catholics said 51% of them supported Kerry

If your looking for an easy scapegoat, blame Kerry for his own failures, instead of trying to convince a group of americans that thier beliefs are "wrong" A candidate is supposed to represent the majority, not the other way around.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
For the majority, by the majority.

Yup.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: polm
The election has taught me that this country is NOT the land of freedom for all, or a land of equality.

As I watch the ban on Gay marriage pass in many states, and as I watch those who would choose to remove the rights of women to choose, I realize:

America is for Christians, by Christians. Everyone else just takes a back seat.

I don't get it? If it is so 'obvious' that banning gay marriage and abortions is 'wrong,' then why are they passing? I really love the "OMG! Everyone who disagrees with my opinions is a moron and totally wrong" attitude some of you guys have. I'm a Christian. I'm against abortion. But I am for same-sex marriage. Do you have a nice little pre-fabbed category to shove me in as well?

Who said anything about Obvious. These issues are FAR from clear cut.

I never called anyonoe a moron or said they were wrong.

This thread is concerning majorities, and obviously you as well as MANY MANY others will be exceptions to the rule.

Well then, if the issue is not clear cut, and a vote is taken, and passes one way or the other, then why are you claiming that it is unfair? That 'Christians' are in charge? Again, why must your opinion be accepted by the majority for it to be the 'right' answer.

Your claim that Christians must be running the country on the basis of the results of gay marriage banning votes is no more valid that a claim that too long have Satanic Cultists been in charge given the legality of abortions and such. It's silly. And perhaps I'm just being dense, but I don't see your point.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: Train
Christians seem to be an easy scapegoat for all the democrats problems. Christians are not as big of a force as you make them out to be, nor do they vote strictly on religion. Nor does the fact that christians support of an issue make all supporters of that issue "christian fundamentalists"

The last demographic survey I saw on Catholics said 51% of them supported Kerry

If your looking for an easy scapegoat, blame Kerry for his own failures, instead of trying to convince a group of americans that thier beliefs are "wrong" A candidate is supposed to represent the majority, not the other way around.

This is not about blame, or losing. This is just a simple reality check about the majority of this nation.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Train
Christians seem to be an easy scapegoat for all the democrats problems. Christians are not as big of a force as you make them out to be, nor do they vote strictly on religion. Nor does the fact that christians support of an issue make all supporters of that issue "christian fundamentalists"

The last demographic survey I saw on Catholics said 51% of them supported Kerry

If your looking for an easy scapegoat, blame Kerry for his own failures, instead of trying to convince a group of americans that thier beliefs are "wrong" A candidate is supposed to represent the majority, not the other way around.

There is truth in that re:Kerry but also you misconstrue an apparent attack on Christianity. It's not against all Christians. It's against the fundamentals. It's against the ones who forget about the need for the separation of church and state. It's against the ones that distort their religion and the teachings of that which they worship. It's against the ones who lack the ability to think critically and follow blindly their party line.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

The problem with many Christians is that they are incredibly hypocritical. I mean, the Evangelicals are some of the biggest hawks and proponents for the war and they seem to care nothing for the innocent Iraqi lives that are lost by the dozens each day. Yet mention abortion or stem cells and they are up in flames. People need to understand that religion was something created by mankind for mankind. It was created to give man a sense of purpose in life, to guide him with a set of values through life. But realize this all you Christians, not everyone shares your religion or your values. It is not right for you to force your beliefs on others.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Train
Christians seem to be an easy scapegoat for all the democrats problems. Christians are not as big of a force as you make them out to be, nor do they vote strictly on religion. Nor does the fact that christians support of an issue make all supporters of that issue "christian fundamentalists"

The last demographic survey I saw on Catholics said 51% of them supported Kerry

If your looking for an easy scapegoat, blame Kerry for his own failures, instead of trying to convince a group of americans that thier beliefs are "wrong" A candidate is supposed to represent the majority, not the other way around.

No one is trying to tell anyone their beliefs are wrong, but it's not a "belief" that you can make me follow your beliefs. I'm perfectly OK with saying people are wrong by trying to force their beliefs on anyone else.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: polm
The election has taught me that this country is NOT the land of freedom for all, or a land of equality.

As I watch the ban on Gay marriage pass in many states, and as I watch those who would choose to remove the rights of women to choose, I realize:

America is for Christians, by Christians. Everyone else just takes a back seat.

I don't get it? If it is so 'obvious' that banning gay marriage and abortions is 'wrong,' then why are they passing? I really love the "OMG! Everyone who disagrees with my opinions is a moron and totally wrong" attitude some of you guys have. I'm a Christian. I'm against abortion. But I am for same-sex marriage. Do you have a nice little pre-fabbed category to shove me in as well?

Who said anything about Obvious. These issues are FAR from clear cut.

I never called anyonoe a moron or said they were wrong.

This thread is concerning majorities, and obviously you as well as MANY MANY others will be exceptions to the rule.

Well then, if the issue is not clear cut, and a vote is taken, and passes one way or the other, then why are you claiming that it is unfair? That 'Christians' are in charge? Again, why must your opinion be accepted by the majority for it to be the 'right' answer.

Your claim that Christians must be running the country on the basis of the results of gay marriage banning votes is no more valid that a claim that too long have Satanic Cultists been in charge given the legality of abortions and such. It's silly. And perhaps I'm just being dense, but I don't see your point.

If "running" is ruling, and Majority rules, then how could one not conclude that the Majority of this Country, bring Chrisitian, runs things ?

 

[Tylanner]

But there is one fact you can not dispute....


Gay marriage and Abortion are un-natural.


Proven by your own pets...



How can you put in on CHRISTIANS.....

Very cheap shot.

 

[imported_Snagle]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Snagle
Around %75 of the US citizens define themselves as christians. When you break it down, %20 of those Christians are Catholic and the rest are spread out among Protestant groups like Evangelicals and Baptists.

There are 102 million evangelicals and born agains in this country.

This was not about catholics. Last night was about protestant zealots flexing their muscle.

I'm aware of that, I was just responding to his question about religions in the country.

Offtopid kind of, but what can the Dems do political strategy wise to win over parts of this huge population of (mostly) republican supporters. How the hell are they going to ever win any seats back in '06 or the country in '08 if this many states are such rabid supporters of this movement?

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: polm
The election has taught me that this country is NOT the land of freedom for all, or a land of equality.

As I watch the ban on Gay marriage pass in many states, and as I watch those who would choose to remove the rights of women to choose, I realize:

America is for Christians, by Christians. Everyone else just takes a back seat.

I don't get it? If it is so 'obvious' that banning gay marriage and abortions is 'wrong,' then why are they passing? I really love the "OMG! Everyone who disagrees with my opinions is a moron and totally wrong" attitude some of you guys have. I'm a Christian. I'm against abortion. But I am for same-sex marriage. Do you have a nice little pre-fabbed category to shove me in as well?

Who said anything about Obvious. These issues are FAR from clear cut.

I never called anyonoe a moron or said they were wrong.

This thread is concerning majorities, and obviously you as well as MANY MANY others will be exceptions to the rule.

The majority in California passed an idiotic 6 BILLION dollar law establishing a state-run stem cell research lab. You know what, I don't like it. I guess it's time for me to start a thread bashing the MAJORITY of LIBERALS in this state and cry like a baby about how unfair it is for me and how wrong they are. :roll:

You want to argue gay marriage, then be a man about it and start a thread on THE ISSUE instead of just whining about how it's all somehow the "Christians" fault. Didn't work for Nero, won't work for you. You'll find even non-Christians have a problem with the erosion of family values brought about by same sex marriage.

There's a hundred million born again Christians? Almost all of them will have premarital sex. All of them will lie. Some of them will murder. Very few of them tithe. They pick and choose what parts of Christianity suit them and do those and don't do the ones they don't like. So they didn't vote against same sex marriage BECAUSE they were Christians, they voted against it because they think it's a bad idea. THE END. GET OVER IT. KTHX.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Train
Christians seem to be an easy scapegoat for all the democrats problems. Christians are not as big of a force as you make them out to be, nor do they vote strictly on religion. Nor does the fact that christians support of an issue make all supporters of that issue "christian fundamentalists"

The last demographic survey I saw on Catholics said 51% of them supported Kerry

If your looking for an easy scapegoat, blame Kerry for his own failures, instead of trying to convince a group of americans that thier beliefs are "wrong" A candidate is supposed to represent the majority, not the other way around.

There is truth in that re:Kerry but also you misconstrue an apparent attack on Christianity. It's not against all Christians. It's against the fundamentals. It's against the ones who forget about the need for the separation of church and state. It's against the ones that distort their religion and the teachings of that which they worship. It's against the ones who lack the ability to think critically and follow blindly their party line.

your attempting to polarize the gay marriage issue to religion. Like I said, just because fundamentalists support it, does not mean all supporters are fundamentalists. Ever take a logic class?

If John is a sheep,
And John is a male,
You are trying to prove All sheeps are males. this is False.

 

[Tylanner]

People need to stop expecting America to be an impossible Utopian Society...

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Train
Christians seem to be an easy scapegoat for all the democrats problems. Christians are not as big of a force as you make them out to be, nor do they vote strictly on religion.

How do you know that? What makes you think they aren't a big force?

Your info about catholics isn't helpful. When people talk about the religious right, they do not mean catholics. Cathloics are traditionally democrats. Most people are talking about protestant evangelicals and born-agains.

Nor does the fact that christians support of an issue make all supporters of that issue "christian fundamentalists"

I don't think anybody suggested that.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
The problem with many Christians is that they are incredibly hypocritical. I mean, the Evangelicals are some of the biggest hawks and proponents for the war and they seem to care nothing for the innocent Iraqi lives that are lost by the dozens each day. Yet mention abortion or stem cells and they are up in flames. People need to understand that religion was something created by mankind for mankind. It was created to give man a sense of purpose in life, to guide him with a set of values through life. But realize this all you Christians, not everyone shares your religion or your values. It is not right for you to force your beliefs on others.

the fundies were out in full force this election. After all is said in done, they'll be backsliden and tuned into the daily springer show by 4pm

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

I don't think anybody suggested that.

[/quote]

Look at the original post in this freaking thread, Einstein.

 

[Tab]

America is for Christians? You mean christian hacks right? What makes you think our country is based on Christian values? Prove to me Christians own the values in the Bible when they are in every other major religion!

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaty of Tripoli 1797 - passed unanimously into the senate