For Christians, By Christians.

[polm]

People, please beleive me when I say, I do not beleive this is a black and white issue.

Stop assuming that my OP is directed at ALL Chrisitan people. It is simply to say that the majority of this nation is Christian, and if you don't think that plays a HUGE role in national politics, then you are crazy.

In a country where majority rules, it is important to look at your nation's religuos majorities.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Train
Christians seem to be an easy scapegoat for all the democrats problems. Christians are not as big of a force as you make them out to be, nor do they vote strictly on religion. Nor does the fact that christians support of an issue make all supporters of that issue "christian fundamentalists"

The last demographic survey I saw on Catholics said 51% of them supported Kerry

If your looking for an easy scapegoat, blame Kerry for his own failures, instead of trying to convince a group of americans that thier beliefs are "wrong" A candidate is supposed to represent the majority, not the other way around.

There is truth in that re:Kerry but also you misconstrue an apparent attack on Christianity. It's not against all Christians. It's against the fundamentals. It's against the ones who forget about the need for the separation of church and state. It's against the ones that distort their religion and the teachings of that which they worship. It's against the ones who lack the ability to think critically and follow blindly their party line.

your attempting to polarize the gay marriage issue to religion. Like I said, just because fundamentalists support it, does not mean all supporters are fundamentalists. Ever take a logic class?

If John is a sheep,
And John is a male,
You are trying to prove All sheeps are males. this is False.

WTF are you talking about??

I'm not talking about gay marriage at all! I'm talking about your defending ALL Christians. No one here is saying ALL Christians are bad, evil, etc. Re-read my post to understand what I'm saying.

 

[Tylanner]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
The problem with many Christians is that they are incredibly hypocritical. I mean, the Evangelicals are some of the biggest hawks and proponents for the war and they seem to care nothing for the innocent Iraqi lives that are lost by the dozens each day. Yet mention abortion or stem cells and they are up in flames. People need to understand that religion was something created by mankind for mankind. It was created to give man a sense of purpose in life, to guide him with a set of values through life. But realize this all you Christians, not everyone shares your religion or your values. It is not right for you to force your beliefs on others.

There is no debating that abortion is un-natural no matter what religion, Atheist or anyone.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Tylanner
But there is one fact you can not dispute....

Gay marriage and Abortion are un-natural.

Proven by your own pets...

WTF? You make no sense. How do your pets prove this to you exactly? Are you going to make me dig up the links about gay and bisexual animals?
BTW, pills that help people stay alive by correcting problems with the body are also unnatural; should we get rid of them too? Cars are unnatural, should they be done away with?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Pat Buchanan was dead on when he gave the keynote address a few years back when he described the "cultural" war that is being waged in America. Conservatives look at the media and the state of the nation where interracial couples are more common, gay people are getting married, television and movies becoming far more explicit, and I think they are incredibly scared and alarmed. What you saw in this election was an incredibly immense reaction from this crowd to take back what they used to know and love about America.

With all this discussion of gay marriages, does anyone seriously believe that 10-20 years from now gay marriages still won't be recognized?

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: Tylanner
But there is one fact you can not dispute....

Gay marriage and Abortion are un-natural.

So is monogamy. I mean, a man could impregnate one woman each day or more, if he wanted, yet religion says he can only impregnate one every 9+ months.

 

[bamacre]

I love it when Democrats bash Christians, and then nominate them for office.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Infohawk

I don't think anybody suggested that.

Look at the original post in this freaking thread, Einstein.[/quote]

Last time you said something to me, it was this. Same bizarre rhetoric. Same garbage:

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Hey, genius, evolution isn't science. That's why its called a theory.

 

[assemblage]

Isn't Pat Buchanan a swinger?

 

[rickn]

there's always civil war. 50/50 split.

 

[Pandaren]

As to the original subject, whether America is "For Christians, By Christians," I think this is somewhat, but not absolutely true.

I grew up in the suburbs, the population of which was 99% white and Christian. When I was a kid in the 1980's and early 1990's, I was often the target of racist jokes and told I was going to hell because I didn't believe in God.

Can you imagine how that feels? My parents are fairly traditional Chinese parents and made sure I was well behaved. I did my best not to cause trouble and to be polite and respectful to people, and then many of these people told me I was siding with Satan. It made me incredibly angry because I do not think I was a bad person, yet people said I was in the "evil" camp and maybe a Communist because I was Chinese.

I resented such treatment and it really did have a huge impact during my most impressionable years. I never told Christians that their faith had tenets that I disagreed with - I figured that was what they were brought up with and that I would not disrespect them by telling them they were on the wrong side or "evil." I just wish I had been accorded the same consideration.

These were the lessons I learned from Kindergarten.

 

[BigPoppa]

Originally posted by: Tylanner
But there is one fact you can not dispute....


Gay marriage and Abortion are un-natural.


Proven by your own pets...



How can you put in on CHRISTIANS.....

Very cheap shot.

I've seen one of my male dogs hump my other male dog. I've also seen him hump female dogs. Your "proof" is bullshit.

Originally posted by: Tylanner

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
The problem with many Christians is that they are incredibly hypocritical. I mean, the Evangelicals are some of the biggest hawks and proponents for the war and they seem to care nothing for the innocent Iraqi lives that are lost by the dozens each day. Yet mention abortion or stem cells and they are up in flames. People need to understand that religion was something created by mankind for mankind. It was created to give man a sense of purpose in life, to guide him with a set of values through life. But realize this all you Christians, not everyone shares your religion or your values. It is not right for you to force your beliefs on others.

There is no debating that abortion is un-natural no matter what religion, Atheist or anyone.

Surgery is unnatural. Taking prescription drugs is unnatural.

You need to examine your empty rhetoric a little more closely next time.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I love it when Democrats bash Christians, and then nominate them for office.

Try and think for a change. Re-read this entire thread and then think real hard about what it's really saying.

Come back when successful.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: BigPoppa
I've seen one of my male dogs hump my other male dog. I've also seen him hump female dogs. Your "proof" is bullshit.

You know, now that I think of it, our two female cats do sometimes resort to... activities when in heat.

 

[Tylanner]

Originally posted by: BigPoppa

Originally posted by: Tylanner
But there is one fact you can not dispute....


Gay marriage and Abortion are un-natural.


Proven by your own pets...



How can you put in on CHRISTIANS.....

Very cheap shot.

I've seen one of my male dogs hump my other male dog. I've also seen him hump female dogs. Your "proof" is bullshit.

Originally posted by: Tylanner

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
The problem with many Christians is that they are incredibly hypocritical. I mean, the Evangelicals are some of the biggest hawks and proponents for the war and they seem to care nothing for the innocent Iraqi lives that are lost by the dozens each day. Yet mention abortion or stem cells and they are up in flames. People need to understand that religion was something created by mankind for mankind. It was created to give man a sense of purpose in life, to guide him with a set of values through life. But realize this all you Christians, not everyone shares your religion or your values. It is not right for you to force your beliefs on others.

There is no debating that abortion is un-natural no matter what religion, Atheist or anyone.

Surgery is unnatural. Taking prescription drugs is unnatural.

You need to examine your empty rhetoric a little more closely next time.

I was refering to the anatomy of your pets and "How things work" down below. All dictated by nature.


Surgery? Perscription drugs? How does this relate to christians and the election again?

The OP put the blame for the voting down of Gay marriage and Abortion on the christians... I'm saying that that is a cheap shot as christianity is not wholly to blame for the wonders of nature.

 

[BigPoppa]

Originally posted by: Tylanner

Originally posted by: BigPoppa

Originally posted by: Tylanner
But there is one fact you can not dispute....


Gay marriage and Abortion are un-natural.


Proven by your own pets...



How can you put in on CHRISTIANS.....

Very cheap shot.

I've seen one of my male dogs hump my other male dog. I've also seen him hump female dogs. Your "proof" is bullshit.

Originally posted by: Tylanner

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
The problem with many Christians is that they are incredibly hypocritical. I mean, the Evangelicals are some of the biggest hawks and proponents for the war and they seem to care nothing for the innocent Iraqi lives that are lost by the dozens each day. Yet mention abortion or stem cells and they are up in flames. People need to understand that religion was something created by mankind for mankind. It was created to give man a sense of purpose in life, to guide him with a set of values through life. But realize this all you Christians, not everyone shares your religion or your values. It is not right for you to force your beliefs on others.

There is no debating that abortion is un-natural no matter what religion, Atheist or anyone.

Surgery is unnatural. Taking prescription drugs is unnatural.

You need to examine your empty rhetoric a little more closely next time.

I was refering to the anatomy of your pets and "How things work" down below. All dictated by nature.


Surgery? Perscription drugs? How does this relate to christians and the election again?

The OP put the blame for the voting down of Gay marriage and Abortion on the christians... I'm saying that that is a cheap shot as christianity is not wholly to blame for the wonders of nature.

I was referring to the way that nature made my dog get jiggy with my other male dog. NATURE MADE HIM DO IT.

As to how surgery and prescription drugs relate, you said abortion is unnatural. I gave you two other things, one that most people will experience and the other that 99% of america will use, that are also unnatural that have and will continue to be used by christians and non-christians alike.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre
I love it when Democrats bash Christians, and then nominate them for office.

Try and think for a change. Re-read this entire thread and then think real hard about what it's really saying.

Come back when successful.

Oh, I know. My statement was a bit of a joke.

Seriously, I do understand the OP feelings. But, people vote on their beliefes, regardless of what others think. You cannot ask people to vote without thinking about their religious beliefs.

I don't think the banning of gay marriages is solely due to fundamentalists, people just aren't comfortable with the idea. Give it time. Smoking a doob in this country is still illegal.

Frankly, and I may be more ignorant on this than I think, but I don't really understand Christians views against gay marriage. Marriage recognized by a church and marriage recognized by the state are completeley different. Christians vew marriage as a Sacrement, states view marriage as any two morons who want to sign a piece of paper that says they will try to be together until they decide on divorce.

If anythng, my point is that the churches aught to try harder to SEPARATE their idea of marriage from the state's, not bind them together. They should perceive their idea of marriage as being on a higher level than that of the states, and thus, not give a sh$t what the state decides upon in regards to a legal marriage.

To me, abortion is a whole different issue. I am pro-Life and always will be (except when a mother's life is in extreme danger, and maybe in cases of rape).

This whole thing about, "it's my body, it's my choice" is plain bullshit. They can have a legal abortion as soon as I can smoke a legal doob.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Would it be fair to say that the real issue behind the gay-marriage ban is not a backlash against gays but rather against liberal judges in the likes of MA who choose to legislate from the bench? Had it not been for those judges in MA, you would not have had 11 states vote to ban gay marriage.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre
I love it when Democrats bash Christians, and then nominate them for office.

Try and think for a change. Re-read this entire thread and then think real hard about what it's really saying.

Come back when successful.

Oh, I know. My statement was a bit of a joke.

Seriously, I do understand the OP feelings. But, people vote on their beliefes, regardless of what others think. You cannot ask people to vote without thinking about their religious beliefs.

I don't think the banning of gay marriages is solely due to fundamentalists, people just aren't comfortable with the idea. Give it time. Smoking a doob in this country is still illegal.

Frankly, and I may be more ignorant on this than I think, but I don't really understand Christians views against gay marriage. Marriage recognized by a church and marriage recognized by the state are completeley different. Christians vew marriage as a Sacrement, states view marriage as any two morons who want to sign a piece of paper that says they will try to be together until they decide on divorce.

If anythng, my point is that the churches aught to try harder to SEPARATE their idea of marriage from the state's, not bind them together. They should perceive their idea of marriage as being on a higher level than that of the states, and thus, not give a sh$t what the state decides upon in regards to a legal marriage.

To me, abortion is a whole different issue. I am pro-Life and always will be (except when a mother's life is in extreme danger, and maybe in cases of rape).

This whole thing about, "it's my body, it's my choice" is plain bullshit. They can have a legal abortion as soon as I can smoke a legal doob.

I don't know if anyone is truly "pro-abortion" but, rather, "pro-choice". There *is* a difference.

Do we really want to go back to back-alley abortion doctors and coat hangers? I shudder at the thought of that as much as I do about partial-birth abortions. Some median must be met and if it's merely not allowing federal funding for abortions, so be it.

As for gay marriage, those amendments were worded the way they were to specifically play on the fears of the religious bigots. Rove is a genius in seeing that it happened that way. Were it worded in a manner befitting the true nature, civil rights, we'd not have seen the overwhelming rejection of those measures.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Would it be fair to say that the real issue behind the gay-marriage ban is not a backlash against gays but rather against liberal judges in the likes of MA who choose to legislate from the bench? Had it not been for those judges in MA, you would not have had 11 states vote to ban gay marriage.

No. That would not be fair. Most people voted against gay behavior because they think it's sinful. End of story.

That said, the MA judges definitely hurt the campaign. I was glad when Kerry said he was for civil unions and not gay marriage, of course that wasn't enough.

 

[Tylanner]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Would it be fair to say that the real issue behind the gay-marriage ban is not a backlash against gays but rather against liberal judges in the likes of MA who choose to legislate from the bench? Had it not been for those judges in MA, you would not have had 11 states vote to ban gay marriage.

No. That would not be fair. Most people voted against gay behavior because they think it's sinful. End of story.

That said, the MA judges definitely hurt the campaign. I was glad when Kerry said he was for civil unions and not gay marriage, of course that wasn't enough.

Where is the "I voted down gay marriage because I think it is sinful" Poll?

 

[ILikeStuff]

Originally posted by: crimson117

Originally posted by: Snagle

Originally posted by: crimson117
I resent that as a christian. Jesus never turned people away for being different. In fact, he welcomed them into his church. So why do all those holier-than-thou southern christians seem to believe otherwise?

Any christians troubled by all this hate, check out the United Church of Christ

Though I am not a Christian I find that link very refreshing, and even moreso since I found out the church 3 blocks away from here is UCC

Cool! I'm not a hardcore christian (even lean atheist most of the time), but I really do like and support what UCC is about.

Ahh, but Jesus also called for repentance, turning from sin, and he upheld the Law of Moses, which specifically calls homesexuality a sin. He accepted everyone, but those who truly accept him turn from their sin.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre
I love it when Democrats bash Christians, and then nominate them for office.

Try and think for a change. Re-read this entire thread and then think real hard about what it's really saying.

Come back when successful.

Oh, I know. My statement was a bit of a joke.

Seriously, I do understand the OP feelings. But, people vote on their beliefes, regardless of what others think. You cannot ask people to vote without thinking about their religious beliefs.

I don't think the banning of gay marriages is solely due to fundamentalists, people just aren't comfortable with the idea. Give it time. Smoking a doob in this country is still illegal.

Frankly, and I may be more ignorant on this than I think, but I don't really understand Christians views against gay marriage. Marriage recognized by a church and marriage recognized by the state are completeley different. Christians vew marriage as a Sacrement, states view marriage as any two morons who want to sign a piece of paper that says they will try to be together until they decide on divorce.

If anythng, my point is that the churches aught to try harder to SEPARATE their idea of marriage from the state's, not bind them together. They should perceive their idea of marriage as being on a higher level than that of the states, and thus, not give a sh$t what the state decides upon in regards to a legal marriage.

To me, abortion is a whole different issue. I am pro-Life and always will be (except when a mother's life is in extreme danger, and maybe in cases of rape).

This whole thing about, "it's my body, it's my choice" is plain bullshit. They can have a legal abortion as soon as I can smoke a legal doob.

I don't know if anyone is truly "pro-abortion" but, rather, "pro-choice". There *is* a difference.

Do we really want to go back to back-alley abortion doctors and coat hangers? I shudder at the thought of that as much as I do about partial-birth abortions. Some median must be met and if it's merely not allowing federal funding for abortions, so be it.

As for gay marriage, those amendments were worded the way they were to specifically play on the fears of the religious bigots. Rove is a genius in seeing that it happened that way. Were it worded in a manner befitting the true nature, civil rights, we'd not have seen the overwhelming rejection of those measures.

Well, maybe the use of "back-alley abortion doctors and coat hangers" would make someone think before they have unprotected sex, or just sex. But, no, that's still not an answer to the problem and shouldn't be where this country wants to go. I know when I have sex, I know I am taking a risk, and if something happens, I have to assume responsibility for my actions. Some people consider the idea of abortion of allowing people to have their cake and eat it, too.

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
For the majority, by the majority.

exactly. Thats all there is to it.

 

[Beowulf]

Not Christian and I voted for Bush but I am a Cuban-American. It was nice to hear the news channels talk about the Cuban votes in FL.