For manufacturing districts, the wave is red

[dank69]

Trump seized on their frustrations but never had a plan to solve the underlying issues. The frustrations of the working class are legitimate.

What have the Democrats truly done for labor since the New Deal?

...

What have the Democrats done? Fought for their rights and lost because too many people keep voting for the GOP. So liberals' fault, obviously.

 

[Bitek]

So what will? The driving motivation of automation is to increase shareholder value at the expense of workers, a dynamic accelerated by free trade and globalization.

At what point do the displaced workers take priority?

I think that's a particular perspective, and would not put it so sinisterly.

Every company is under competitive pressure in terms of cost. Labor is typically the highest input cost (if highly expensive materials or equipment are not required for manufacture.)

The US cannot complete on low wage advantages vs developing countries, esp for low complexity, low margin products. Automation is a key strategy for keeping manufacturing competitive in America.

If companies don't automate and shed some of their needed labor, ALL the workers may find themselves out of a job as the company goes out of business.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Vote republican, that'll fix it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

What have the Democrats done? Fought for their rights and lost because too many people keep voting for the GOP. So liberals' fault, obviously.

So that explains why the Democrat donor class is holding meetings to “contain” the Sanders movement.

 

[whm1974]

I'm thinking that doing a major repair and updating of our infrastructure and clean up of the environment would create a lot of jobs and the maintenance alone would keep large numbers of folks employed.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I'm thinking that doing a major repair and updating of our infrastructure and clean up of the environment would create a lot of jobs and the maintenance alone would keep large numbers of folks employed.

So a government jobs program, funded how?

 

[Jhhnn]

In any rational country I'd agree. The US isn't that place. We'll just pick someone else to blame and not do anything.

This country would vote to let itself drown if it was on the ballot provided you could own the other cultural tribe on the way down.

You're projecting Conservative "values" onto Libs to establish bothsiderism.

The whole bitter "fuck your feelings" thing is almost entirely one sided.

 

[K1052]

So that explains why the Democrat donor class is holding meetings to “contain” the Sanders movement.

It's a mistake to think that each party is a monolithic bloc. Far left candidates, besides Sanders, are getting some traction now so there is naturally going to be some pushback from the wealthy establishment. Thus far it hasn't crippled the party like happened to the GOP.

 

[K1052]

You're projecting Conservative "values" onto Libs to establish bothsiderism.

The whole bitter "fuck your feelings" thing is almost entirely one sided.

Prior to the last couple years I'd agree but that landscape is changing somewhat.

I would however assign the conservatives the vast majority of the blame for where we have ended up. They are, almost uniformly, destructive to anybody who isn't rich and all policy they've implemented is designed to further that agenda. About the worst you can say for much of the Dems it that they permitted a kind of benign neglect with notable some exceptions (ACA prominent among them).

 

[K1052]

So a government jobs program, funded how?

Undo the last decade plus of tax cuts.

 

[Jhhnn]

So that explains why the Democrat donor class is holding meetings to “contain” the Sanders movement.

Mere assertion presented as fact.

 

[whm1974]

So a government jobs program, funded how?

For one cancel the cut cuts would be a start.

 

[ch33zw1z]

For one cancel the cut cuts would be a start.

So in other words, we got nothin.

 

[Bitek]

Vote republican, that'll fix it.

So that explains why the Democrat donor class is holding meetings to “contain” the Sanders movement.

Which is the wrong approach IMO.

I'm not about to jump on the socialist bandwagon, but it's this sort of thing that helped lose 2010-2016 and terrifies me for 2020.

The party is stuck in the past. The epitome of this was nominating Hillary.

Somewhere else someone commented that factory workers are dumb for voting R when it's against their interests. Maybe.

But how dumb is the Democratic party if they can't capture the votes of ppl who benefit from their policies?

The R party is corrupt, anti-democratic and focused on the needs of the powerful. Trump has betrayed his populist base in deeds.

It's shit strategy and messaging by the Dems if they can't seize this opportunity.

 

[Jhhnn]

Prior to the last couple years I'd agree but that landscape is changing somewhat.

I would however assign the conservatives the vast majority of the blame for where we have ended up. They are, almost uniformly, destructive to anybody who isn't rich and all policy they've implemented is designed to further that agenda. About the worst you can say for much of the Dems it that they permitted a kind of benign neglect with notable some exceptions (ACA prominent among them).

Excuse me, but Dems haven't had the power to overcome GOP obstructionism & hostage taking, not since a few months in 2009 before Ted Kennedy died. Mere fact.

 

[Bitek]

So a government jobs program, funded how?

Undo the last decade plus of tax cuts.

As I said in the tax cut thread, fuck it. Voters and the market don't actually about the deficit and we're in a policy arms race now. Consider the money already spent. Question is just "for what & whom."

Fiscal responsibility is for whining by the election losers.

Dems better spend the money on regular folks and jobs else the Rs will spend it on tax cuts for the rich.

The only way tax cuts get reversed is when we got rock bottom and are forced to recon with the damage and need someone to blame.
Ds better be seen as for the people, and Rs in it for the rich, or Rs will be permitted to gut the safety net.

 

[senseamp]

Sometimes the right action is to force the people who voted for Republicans to live with the consequences of their votes. If that means automating their jobs away while Republicans gut the safety net, so be it.

 

[dank69]

Which is the wrong approach IMO.

I'm not about to jump on the socialist bandwagon, but it's this sort of thing that helped lose 2010-2016 and terrifies me for 2020.

The party is stuck in the past. The epitome of this was nominating Hillary.

Somewhere else someone commented that factory workers are dumb for voting R when it's against their interests. Maybe.

But how dumb is the Democratic party if they can't capture the votes of ppl who benefit from their policies?

The R party is corrupt, anti-democratic and focused on the needs of the powerful. Trump has betrayed his populist base in deeds.

It's shit strategy and messaging by the Dems if they can't seize this opportunity.

It has nothing to do with messaging or strategy. Americans have been conditioned from birth to HATE liberals. The only thing that seems to be able to overcome it is to crash hard enough. 2008 was hard enough to get some power back but Americans also have pathetically short memories. 2 months of ramped up agitprop was enough to make them completely forget the shit that the Bush admin did and hate liberals again. We need a crash that lasts long enough that America never forgets.

 

[dank69]

So that explains why the Democrat donor class is holding meetings to “contain” the Sanders movement.

Thanks for your concern. I'm sure you embrace socialism and think the Democrats should go full Bernie.

 

[brycejones]

So what will? The driving motivation of automation is to increase shareholder value at the expense of workers, a dynamic accelerated by free trade and globalization.

At what point do the displaced workers take priority?

Well in the past growing productivity showed up in rising wages. It used to be a rising tide did lift all boats, now the boats that aren't yachts have holes in them so they are eventually sunk. This really got rolling in the 80's. Maybe look at almost 40 years of conservative policies and you'll get a sense of what needs to be rolled back. FYGM isn't a sustainable model and I think we both agree on this.

 

[jackstar7]

I dont think its a good or bad thing. Just interesting.

Ah, another concerned citizen.

 

[jackstar7]

LOL. More of that hate.

You mistake pity for hatred. You wish it were hatred because that's emboldening and challenging. Pity is so much worse, but in this case, entirely applicable.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Thanks for your concern. I'm sure you embrace socialism and think the Democrats should go full Bernie.

I supported Sanders and continue to do so because I think the political debate in this country should be around the balance between democratic socialism and fiscal conservatism.

While I don’t support everything Sanders advocates, he brings a perspective that is sorely lacking.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Well in the past growing productivity showed up in rising wages. It used to be a rising tide did lift all boats, now the boats that aren't yachts have holes in them so they are eventually sunk. This really got rolling in the 80's. Maybe look at almost 40 years of conservative policies and you'll get a sense of what needs to be rolled back. FYGM isn't a sustainable model and I think we both agree on this.

We do agree on this, although I wouldn’t necessarily attribute it entirely to conservative policies.

FYGM is the generational rallying cry of the Boomers

 

[Bitek]

It has nothing to do with messaging or strategy. Americans have been conditioned from birth to HATE liberals. The only thing that seems to be able to overcome it is to crash hard enough. 2008 was hard enough to get some power back but Americans also have pathetically short memories. 2 months of ramped up agitprop was enough to make them completely forget the shit that the Bush admin did and hate liberals again. We need a crash that lasts long enough that America never forgets.

If that were inevitable, then dems wouldn't have won 6 of last 7 popular votes.

No spell is unbreakable. What Dems have lacked is a credible counterargument in terms of economic policy, and have not been able to control narratives around this issue in a generation.

Where dems have succeded in this is on social issues, particular around racial, gender and sexuality equality.

They need to focus on this and get back the prosperity trust that FDR built, but have been steadily losing since Reagan.

The R platform is built on fraud and lies. It can topple if given the right kick.