The Democrats don't tout it heavily. The problem is that when one of them says "we need common sense gun laws" America hears "all your guns are belong to us." And I don't just mean conservatards. Millions of "independents" are just as irrational.
The Democrats don't tout it heavily. The problem is that when one of them says "we need common sense gun laws" America hears "all your guns are belong to us." And I don't just mean conservatards. Millions of "independents" are just as irrational.You're perfectly showing exactly that Republican/conservative propaganda works. You know where I get my messaging from? What they actually fucking work on when in political office. What politicians say isn't fit to wipe my ass with (although it actually has become meaningful, mostly because Republicans keep dropping the pretense that they give a shit about anything but being hateful and corrupt disgusting pieces of shit; and Democrats actually work on the shit they talk about - and often do it quite successfully, which is not to say its without problems but any fucking adult realizes that's going to be inherent in trying to set policy and laws for a diverse country of 350+ million people). Yet people keep spouting "both sides" and say how politicians just offer empty words and branding. Then you're mad because you can't be bothered to care about what they actually fucking do. And then you fucking blame the Democrats for their poor messaging. Yet you'll also go around bitching when they do talk up the stuff they've done (happens all the time, I heard no end of people bitching about the Dems "lying about Obamacare" and all sorts of other shit, and when pressed on it reveal they don't know jack shit about fucking anything they're spouting off about). Its absurd and because of the constant propaganda you keep running in idiotic circles.
The Dems and Republicans used to actually be pretty comparable on that issue. And the Democrats did little to address it (Obama really had no interest in approaching it, but was forced to because we kept having situations where someone would go and fucking murder dozens of others, and America was sick of it).
Again, you show exactly that Republican/conservative propaganda works. The Democrats take up that cause because of the outpouring of people begging them to stop all the killing.
Yet here you people bleat on about how they need to listen to the people. They do and then you assholes condemn them constantly.
I get what your point is, that it would appease the fucking idiots who are single-issue gun rights above all voters, plenty of whom are sick of the Republicans but keep voting for them because of their twisted ass interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. But I hope you realize that also will set a really goddamn bad precedent, and signal that the Democrats are very willing to compromise their rationality for the sake of votes. And then you'll see them backslide to the willful ignorance that Republicans are so keen on.
I just think you're wrong that Democrats tout that as heavily as you act like they do. Or that you think them cowtowing to the NRA would be a good thing to do, even if it meant potential short term benefits of stopping the insanity that the GOP has become.
It would shatter what the Democrats have shown. That, yes, they did used to be ignorant much like the Republicans, but that given time and information, they can see the error of their ways and eschew them for rational, logical, coherent, ideas that are supported by actual data. Compromise that, and you compromise everything.
And yes, I get that things are so fucked that Republicans want gun control, but just for those non-white people they're so goddamned terrified of. And just their insanity with regards to gun control in general. I just disagree, and they absolutely should fully come out against he NRA. What they need to do is show how the NRA is the one politicizing the gun issue, and show their ties to Russia and the GOP's corruption. But its like you guys can't make up your mind. Should they grow a fucking backbone of become chickenshits and bow to the NRA?
Bros, 2 words, 3D Printers. Why are you still talking about guns? It's over, bro. Here's a brewski to ease your pain that gun control is dead.The emotional attachment people have to their guns is itself a case against widespread gun ownership.
Please explain what you mean by identity politics.Perhaps the way for Democrats to reach more people in the middle is to begin de-emphasizing the rhetoric that has flowed from decades of identity politics. Instead of unconvincing generalizations about the super rich or corporations, pinpoint and illustrate the kind of malicious behaviors that may warrant the use of government power to restrain. I think a majority of Americans believe the wealth gap is growing, what they don't agree on is solutions. Selling these kinds of solutions could impart wide benefits, not just for a particular group but for the bulk of American workers.
I want to stipulate that I think you understand what identity politics is, and therefore will expect you to extend me the same courtesy.Please explain what you mean by identity politics.
Thanks.
My supposition is that we don't agree, hence why I'd like you to elaborate on your own view.I want to stipulate that you understand what identity politics is, and therefore will expect you to extend me the same courtesy.
Please explain what you mean by identity politics.
Thanks.
I wish we could agree, but that does seem unlikely. Too narrow a focus on the needs of particular groups can take away from more serious problems. I also think that doing so runs the risk of pitting people against one another who might have otherwise been allies.My supposition is that we don't agree, hence why I'd like you to elaborate on your own view.
Democrats need to spend as much time talking about union rights and workers rights as they do transsexual rights. I am pro-transsexual rights, but at the end that will be a deciding issue for a very small minority of voters and almost all of them are going to vote Dem anyways.
And while automation has taken away a lot of jobs, so has outsourcing and just undercutting by countries with low/no environmental, safety, and pay regulations. Democrats should admit that reality and talk about fair trade, too.
Although I still think dems care about blue-collar people and are the best choice for them, I think Dems have done a poor job of selling it, especially in 2016.
I want to stipulate that I think you understand what identity politics is, and therefore will expect you to extend me the same courtesy.
a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.
You should read “The Once and Future Liberal” by Mark Lilla.Definition-
The largest single identity in this country is White Christianity. The GOP has played their hopes & fears for decades. Saying Dems are the ones playing identity politics is disingenuous at best.
The notion of privilege is arrogant. The labor movement is the larger movement because it is inclusive of everyone.I see. I'd like to think the real shame is that we have to spend any time on human rights before we advance with worker rights and start trying to fight back in the class war. If people can all be on board that how people want to live generally affects the average other person not at all, then maybe we can start to lift up the lower economic classes en masse.
I don't get people who can't just be an ally to facilitate that larger movement, but instead trip over their own privilege.
The Democratic party is the only party that minorities of all stripes can join and use to help fight for their own rights. Full stop.You should read “The Once and Future Liberal” by Mark Lilla.
You should read the book. People who say “full stop” are silly.The Democratic party is the only party that minorities of all stripes can join and use to help fight for their own rights. Full stop.
The Democratic party plays "identity politics" because conservatism, by its very nature, doesn't just let anyone come in and change things, because conservatism is inherently about MAINTAINING the status quo traditions.
African-Americans, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, LGBTQ, women, etc, join the Democratic party and use it to fight for their own rights, because they sure as shit aren't going to get the conservative party to fight for those rights.
Conservatives want to limit who gets to be considered a citizen, and what kind of rights those people can claim. Gay marriage, for example. Conservatives are still railing against that. Gay people aren't going to join the conservative party who are actively preventing them from having the same rights as other citizens.
The Democratic party is the big tent party. It has minorities, conservatives, liberals, and socialists. They can disagree on certain aspects, but agree that it's their only political option.
The Republican party is the party that wants to preserve the inherent-but-implicit advantages that white, Christian, men, have had since before the country existed.
So, save the apology tour bullshit.
Nice substantive rebuttal.You should read the book. People who say “full stop” are silly.
Nice substantive rebuttal.
Although at least you aren't apologizing!
So question, does having a job help most people? Because under Trump job openings have only been trending up under Trump. I don't think any of the groups you just mentioned would turn down employment if they were able bodied and looking for work. Jobs give people confidence, self worth, and a way to be independent. Repubs are usually the party that creates jobs, love em or hate em. Very few people will say jobs are shunned by x group of people. It's a unifier and that's why Trump won.The Democratic party is the only party that minorities of all stripes can join and use to help fight for their own rights. Full stop.
The Democratic party plays "identity politics" because conservatism, by its very nature, doesn't just let anyone come in and change things, because conservatism is inherently about MAINTAINING the status quo traditions.
African-Americans, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, LGBTQ, women, etc, join the Democratic party and use it to fight for their own rights, because they sure as shit aren't going to get the conservative party to fight for those rights.
Conservatives want to limit who gets to be considered a citizen, and what kind of rights those people can claim. Gay marriage, for example. Conservatives are still railing against that. Gay people aren't going to join the conservative party who are actively preventing them from having the same rights as other citizens.
The Democratic party is the big tent party. It has minorities, conservatives, liberals, and socialists. They can disagree on certain aspects, but agree that it's their only political option.
The Republican party is the party that wants to preserve the inherent-but-implicit advantages that white, Christian, men, have had since before the country existed.
So, save the apology tour bullshit.
Well I stopped reading at full stop, which didn’t give me much to respond to. The book I mentioned is a good read. I have nothing to apologize for.Nice substantive rebuttal.
Although at least you aren't apologizing!
So question, does having a job help most people? Because under Trump job openings have only been trending up under Trump. I don't think any of the groups you just mentioned would turn down employment if they were able bodied and looking for work. Jobs give people confidence, self worth, and a way to be independent. Repubs are usually the party that creates jobs, love em or hate em. Very few people will say jobs are shunned by x group of people. It's a unifier and that's why Trump won.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/217943/monthly-job-openings-in-the-united-states/
Great substantive rebuttal, champ.Well I stopped reading at full stop, which didn’t give me much to respond to. The book I mentioned is a good read. I have nothing to apologize for.
Job openings have been trending up since 6 months into Obama's first term.So question, does having a job help most people? Because under Trump job openings have only been trending up under Trump. I don't think any of the groups you just mentioned would turn down employment if they were able bodied and looking for work. Jobs give people confidence, self worth, and a way to be independent. Repubs are usually the party that creates jobs, love em or hate em. Very few people will say jobs are shunned by x group of people. It's a unifier and that's why Trump won.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/217943/monthly-job-openings-in-the-united-states/
Yes, Mark Lilla :You should read “The Once and Future Liberal” by Mark Lilla.
Lilla began his career as a protege of neoconservative intellectual Irving Kristol.
I really value his concern.Katherine Franke, a colleague of Lilla’s at Columbia, accused him of ‘Making White Supremacy Respectable. Again’ and compared him to former Klan leader David Duke. In a hostile review for the New York Times, Yale historian Beverly Gage called Lilla’s book “trolling disguised as erudition”.