For More Teens, Arrests by Police Replace School Discipline

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Zero tolerance policies are out of control.

link

A generation ago, schoolchildren caught fighting in the corridors, sassing a teacher or skipping class might have ended up in detention. Today, there’s a good chance they will end up in police custody.

Stephen Perry, now 18 years old, was trying to avoid a water balloon fight in 2013 when he was swept up by police at his Wake County, N.C., high school; he revealed he had a small pocketknife and was charged with weapons possession. Rashe France was a 12-year-old seventh-grader when he was arrested in Southaven, Miss., charged with disturbing the peace on school property after a minor hallway altercation.

In Texas, a student got a misdemeanor ticket for wearing too much perfume. In Wisconsin, a teen was charged with theft after sharing the chicken nuggets from a classmate’s meal—the classmate was on lunch assistance and sharing it meant the teen had violated the law, authorities said. In Florida, a student conducted a science experiment before the authorization of her teacher; when it went awry she received a felony weapons charge.

Over the past 20 years, prompted by changing police tactics and a zero-tolerance attitude toward small crimes, authorities have made more than a quarter of a billion arrests, the Federal Bureau of Investigation estimates. Nearly one out of every three American adults are on file in the FBI’s master criminal database.

This arrest wave, in many ways, starts at school. Concern by parents and school officials over drug use and a spate of shootings prompted a rapid buildup of police officers on campus and led to school administrators referring minor infractions to local authorities. That has turned traditional school discipline, memorialized in Hollywood coming-of-age movies such as “The Breakfast Club,” into something that looks more like the adult criminal-justice system.

At school, talking back or disrupting class can be called disorderly conduct, and a fight can lead to assault and battery charges, said Judith Browne Dianis, executive director of the Advancement Project, a national civil-rights group examining discipline procedures around the country. Some of these encounters with police lead to criminal records—different laws for juveniles apply across states and municipalities, and some jurisdictions treat children as young as 16 as adults. In some states, for example, a fistfight can mean a suspension while in North Carolina a simple affray, as it is called, can mean adult court for a 16-year-old.

Some jurisdictions are so overwhelmed that they are experimenting with routing schoolchildren into specially designed courts that would keep first-time offenders from being saddled with an arrest record. Others have passed new laws or policies to dial back police involvement in school discipline.

The Justice Department and the Education Department issued guidelines this year on school discipline that warn school-based police officers to “not become involved in routine school disciplinary matters,” and the Justice Department has filed lawsuits challenging disciplinary procedures around the country.

“We’re not talking about criminal behavior,” said Texas State Sen. John Whitmire, the Democratic chair of the senate’s Criminal Justice Committee, who helped pass a new law last year that limits how police officers can ticket students. “I’m talking about school disciplinary issues, throwing an eraser, chewing gum, too much perfume, unbelievable violations” that were resulting in misdemeanor charges.

Police, judges and civil-rights organizations all say schools are increasingly the way young people enter the justice system. Data provided by a handful of local courts and the federal government tell a similar story. There are vast gaps in national arrest statistics, and comprehensive statistics on arrests in schools aren’t available.

According to the U.S. Education Department’s Office of Civil Rights, 260,000 students were reported, or “referred” in the official language, to law enforcement by schools in 2012, the most-recent available data. The survey also said 92,000 students were subject to school-related arrests. There are no earlier comparable numbers—the Education Department requested the data because it couldn’t find good national research on the topic.

Police departments first started assigning officers to schools in the 1950s as a way to improve student-police relations. More came in the 1980s to help with drug-education programs, followed by a big push in the 1990s as part of the tough-on-crime laws.

The number of school police officers rose 55% to about 19,000 in the 10 years to 2007, the last year for which numbers were available, according to a 2013 study from the Congressional Research Service.

In recent decades, a new philosophy in law enforcement had been applied to schools. It was “deal with the small stuff so they won’t go to the big stuff, and also it sent a strong message of deterrence,” said James Alan Fox, the Lipman Professor of criminology at Boston’s Northeastern University.

The zero-tolerance approach started as part of the 1994 Gun-Free Schools Act, Mr. Fox said, but it expanded to other weapons, then to drug contraband and “finally into ordinary violations of school rules, disrespect, skipping. It eventually became an across the board response to discipline.”

School shootings, including in Bethel, Alaska, West Paducah, Ky., and Columbine, Colo., created a greater sense of urgency.

The schools crackdown has had its intended effect. Victims’ surveys compiled by the Education Department show that there is a lower rate of violent crime committed in schools, falling to 52 incidents per 100,000 students in 2012 from 181 incidents per 100,000 in 1992.Supporters say that alone proves the worth of aggressive policing.

“We had zero tolerance in the state of Texas because our gang problem was more prominent. You cuss out a teacher, you get a ticket, period,” said George Dranowsky, president of the Texas School District Police Chiefs’ Association. The goal was to show no misbehavior would be tolerated so actions wouldn’t escalate, he said. The No. 1 priority was “safety, taking care of our kids,” he said. Texas’ new limits on police officers in schools might lead students to think they can get away with more, he said.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
I don't know whats in the water in the South and South East but I would say 95% of the time when I was in high school the administrators and teachers had common sense.
 

Legios

Senior member
Feb 12, 2013
418
0
0
Obviously detention didnt work so more drastic measures are now in place. Wont all of these get expunged anyway?
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
At first, I wasn't sure if that article was biased, but then I realized what the Florida case was that they're referring to.

In Florida, a girl built a bomb and set it off on school grounds. She attempted to explain that it was a science experiment and she didn't know what was going to happen. Everyone with a clue and at least a room temperature IQ realized that she was full of shit.

So, without knowing the specifics of those other cases, I'm a bit leery of accepting them at face value.

edit:
The schools crackdown has had its intended effect. Victims’ surveys compiled by the Education Department show that there is a lower rate of violent crime committed in schools, falling to 52 incidents per 100,000 students in 2012 from 181 incidents per 100,000 in 1992.Supporters say that alone proves the worth of aggressive policing.

“We had zero tolerance in the state of Texas because our gang problem was more prominent. You cuss out a teacher, you get a ticket, period,” said George Dranowsky, president of the Texas School District Police Chiefs’ Association. The goal was to show no misbehavior would be tolerated so actions wouldn’t escalate, he said. The No. 1 priority was “safety, taking care of our kids,” he said. Texas’ new limits on police officers in schools might lead students to think they can get away with more, he said.
Woohoo! Rules being enforced means fewer problems in the long run. Who'd a thunk it?
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
At first, I wasn't sure if that article was biased, but then I realized what the Florida case was that they're referring to.

In Florida, a girl built a bomb and set it off on school grounds. She attempted to explain that it was a science experiment and she didn't know what was going to happen. Everyone with a clue and at least a room temperature IQ realized that she was full of shit.

So, without knowing the specifics of those other cases, I'm a bit leery of accepting them at face value.

edit:

Woohoo! Rules being enforced means fewer problems in the long run. Who'd a thunk it?

On 7 a.m. on Monday, the 16 year-old mixed some common household chemicals in a small 8 oz water bottle on the grounds of Bartow High School in Bartow, Florida. The reaction caused a small explosion that caused the top to pop up and produced some smoke. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.

"I couldn't let this go without doing something," (18 Year NASA Veteran Homer) Hickam said. "I'm not a lawyer, but I could give her something that would encourage her. I've worked closely with the U.S. Space Academy, and so I purchased a scholarship for her."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cleared-charges-honor-student-space-camp/story?id=19236561

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt-arrested-science-experiment-blast/9947139/
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126

Aluminum and draino. She didn't just sit down and say "I wonder what happens if...". She looked it up, saw it would explode, and then made the colossally stupid move of blowing it up at school.

On another note, the reason cops are involved now is not really because of school administrators. It's because overly-litigious parents have sued and gotten so many people fired "how dare you physically touch my little bob. He was just kicking the crap out of a kid" that it's safer to have the police deal with it, because the parents then know they're suing the state and admin's don't get fired left and right.

Take a look at the 'famous' football kid in Michigan at Cass Tech who was told to stop, told to take his hoody off, and then BODY slammed a security officer when that officer put his hand on him. And of course his family blamed it on the officer. Of course, that poor kid has now gone back to jail two or three times, the latest being after assaulting his girlfriend on video the same day he got out of jail. Over a cell phone. Cue the crying mother saying "But he's such a GOOD boy".

That's why the police are involved. Because of stupid, stupid parents.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,366
740
126
Sounds fair to me, Teachers cant touch the kids anymore, parents wont touch them, indiscipline spills over and police has to handle. I don't see the problem
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
524
126
Klebold and Harris kill 13 in a school rampage, so we now call the police when 7 year old Johnny brings a G.I. Joe to show & tell.

It's what people in this fucked up country do now. We over-react to any threat, piss ourselves when a stranger walks down the sidewalk behind us in broad daylight. We arm ourselves to the teeth, afraid to leave our houses without guns. We erect memorials to terrorist acts, and we strip people to their underwear and confiscate their shampoo when they get on airplanes. We invade third world countries and our armies run from fighters with guns and technology out of the 1950s.

The United States today has become a country of fucking cowards.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Aluminum and draino. She didn't just sit down and say "I wonder what happens if...". She looked it up, saw it would explode, and then made the colossally stupid move of blowing it up at school.

I know nothing about it besides my quick Google search but it looks like she is doing pretty well and is majoring in engineering at Florida Poly.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
I know nothing about it besides my quick Google search but it looks like she is doing pretty well and is majoring in engineering at Florida Poly.

A smart person can still make a dumbass decision.

Her decision was stupid and she was properly punished.

Shes lucky there weren't more severe consequences.

There is a kid in a district near me that will be facing felony weapons charges and felony charges of destroying state property. Its possible terrorism charges might get tacked on as well. All because he made a homemade explosive device and it went off during a pep rally. He claims he didn't intend to set it off. No one was hurt but shrapnel damaged walls.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
Klebold and Harris kill 13 in a school rampage, so we now call the police when 7 year old Johnny brings a G.I. Joe to show & tell.

It's what people in this fucked up country do now. We over-react to any threat, piss ourselves when a stranger walks down the sidewalk behind us in broad daylight. We arm ourselves to the teeth, afraid to leave our houses without guns. We erect memorials to terrorist acts, and we strip people to their underwear and confiscate their shampoo when they get on airplanes. We invade third world countries and our armies run from fighters with guns and technology out of the 1950s.

The United States today has become a country of fucking cowards.

Cyber-bully! Someone should report his post.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
That's why the police are involved. Because of stupid, stupid parents.
Xbox as the babysitter... expecting schools to handle 100% of kids learning of anything.. kids are bored in the car quick give them your smartphone or tablet, wouldn't want them to have to develop an imagination.

I don't know what you are talking about man, the kids have it so "good" these days nothing bad can ever come from these lazy parent practices.
 

MarkXIX

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2010
2,642
1
71
Told my teenager that if the officer assigned to her school wants to talk to her, to politely ask to go to the principal's office, contact a parent, and wait until we show up.

Worst part is, I'm in law enforcement in the Army. I believe in rights and investigations and all too often in schools, I think that kids get their rights trampled.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I don't know whats in the water in the South and South East but I would say 95% of the time when I was in high school the administrators and teachers had common sense.

the problem isnt teachers. the problem is parents.

They sue the school district any time something goes wrong.


Parents are also the main reason the academic standards went to hell. They'd rather harass the teacher over an F than force their kid to study.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
Told my teenager that if the officer assigned to her school wants to talk to her, to politely ask to go to the principal's office, contact a parent, and wait until we show up.

Worst part is, I'm in law enforcement in the Army. I believe in rights and investigations and all too often in schools, I think that kids get their rights trampled.

Kids don't have rights in school. They need to shut up, sit the fuck down, learn what we're teaching, then get the fuck out. School was not created for socialization, humor, sports, kissing, handholding, using drugs, making cell phone calls, playing video games, trading pokemon cards, or any of the hundred other things kids do nowadays. Can the school check their lockers? Hell yeah. Their backpacks? Fuck yeah. I'm sending my kid to school to learn from the teacher, and the sooner we can get all the asswipes who are disturbing that interaction somewhere else, the better.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
Pfft! What the girl did wasn't an explosion. A half inch of Nitrogen Triiodide in the bottom of a 3 lb coffee can when I was 14 was an explosion!
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,701
26
91
Kids don't have rights in school. They need to shut up, sit the fuck down, learn what we're teaching, then get the fuck out. School was not created for socialization, humor, sports, kissing, handholding, using drugs, making cell phone calls, playing video games, trading pokemon cards, or any of the hundred other things kids do nowadays. Can the school check their lockers? Hell yeah. Their backpacks? Fuck yeah. I'm sending my kid to school to learn from the teacher, and the sooner we can get all the asswipes who are disturbing that interaction somewhere else, the better.

What he said.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Aluminum and draino. She didn't just sit down and say "I wonder what happens if...". She looked it up, saw it would explode, and then made the colossally stupid move of blowing it up at school.

On another note, the reason cops are involved now is not really because of school administrators. It's because overly-litigious parents have sued and gotten so many people fired "how dare you physically touch my little bob. He was just kicking the crap out of a kid" that it's safer to have the police deal with it, because the parents then know they're suing the state and admin's don't get fired left and right.

Take a look at the 'famous' football kid in Michigan at Cass Tech who was told to stop, told to take his hoody off, and then BODY slammed a security officer when that officer put his hand on him. And of course his family blamed it on the officer. Of course, that poor kid has now gone back to jail two or three times, the latest being after assaulting his girlfriend on video the same day he got out of jail. Over a cell phone. Cue the crying mother saying "But he's such a GOOD boy".

That's why the police are involved. Because of stupid, stupid parents.

Yea, so she heard of this and had to have seen this done on YT so she claims it's a "science experiment" yet no teacher was there supervising and there was no 'science fair" upcoming at the school. At the end of the day that crap could have sprayed onto anyone passing by causing burns and possibly blindness if it got in their eyes. While it's obvious she intended no harm to anyone that kind of stupidity SHOULD have resulted in her permanent expulsion from school, I don't think criminal charges were warranted though, she didn't hide it in a trash can and walk away, but what she did do was clearly dangerous and she clearly knew it was going to be dangerous..
 

MarkXIX

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2010
2,642
1
71
Well, those of us who actually raise respectable, responsible kids don't need cops to tell our kids what to do.

I guarantee that whatever discipline I mete out at home will be more effective than what some school cop can level against my child.

So, we can agree to disagree, but my kid won't likely ever have to deal with administrators and cops who overreach.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
Well, those of us who actually raise respectable, responsible kids don't need cops to tell our kids what to do.

I guarantee that whatever discipline I mete out at home will be more effective than what some school cop can level against my child.

So, we can agree to disagree, but my kid won't likely ever have to deal with administrators and cops who overreach.

I understand your viewpoint and I think it's perfectly reasonable coming from someone who actually teaches their kids to be respectful and follow the rules. Unfortunately, your kid probably goes to school with a whole group of kids who were brought up in daycare and by the TV, with absentee parents chasing their 'careers'. Those are the ones who are going to screw over YOUR child by taking away from learning opportunities. Unfortunately, the only way to get those issues fixed is to take the hard line and force the problem back into the kid's household. Because of lawyers, police are necessary to do that at this point in our culture.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
I understand your viewpoint and I think it's perfectly reasonable coming from someone who actually teaches their kids to be respectful and follow the rules. Unfortunately, your kid probably goes to school with a whole group of kids who were brought up in daycare and by the TV, with absentee parents chasing their 'careers'. Those are the ones who are going to screw over YOUR child by taking away from learning opportunities. Unfortunately, the only way to get those issues fixed is to take the hard line and force the problem back into the kid's household. Because of lawyers, police are necessary to do that at this point in our culture.

You have an issue with parents who also happen to have a career?
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
4,345
1
0

That is a great personal interest story! Sooo cool. For anyone that didn't make the connection, the protagonist of the movie October Sky is based on Homer Hickam. He now works at NASA, and he bought that girl (an honor student) a scholarship to go to space camp. :thumbsup:

I love it when good people are awesome.
 

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
Klebold and Harris kill 13 in a school rampage, so we now call the police when 7 year old Johnny brings a G.I. Joe to show & tell.

It's what people in this fucked up country do now. We over-react to any threat, piss ourselves when a stranger walks down the sidewalk behind us in broad daylight. We arm ourselves to the teeth, afraid to leave our houses without guns. We erect memorials to terrorist acts, and we strip people to their underwear and confiscate their shampoo when they get on airplanes. We invade third world countries and our armies run from fighters with guns and technology out of the 1950s.

The United States today has become a country of fucking cowards.

This country has been paranoid cowards since the 1600s when they burned "witches" at the stake. In the 1940s they locked up all the Japanese people. In the 1950s the witch hunt turned to commies, and in the 80s the pitchforks turned towards the homos spreading aids.

Nothing new here. People are fucking idiots.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Schools have always had a strict policy on toy guns in school.
When I was in third grade, about the time Moses parted the red sea ,
I had this pants belt that had a little toy cap gun in the belt buckle.
It took one cap, and when you inhaled the pressure on the belt forced the toy gun to flip out from the buckle and shot off the cap.
Pretty cool, actually.
Maybe some older folks around here remember that toy belt buckle?

So I wore my kool belt to school and as soon as the teacher see it she sent me home.
As a kid I didn't get the big deal. I never shot off the gun. Had no caps with me.
But still this having any type of toy gun was over the line.

Toy guns were HUGE when I was a kid in the 60's and the Vietnam war had just started.
Every kid in the neighborhood asked Santa for a Johnny-Seven toy assault weapon.
Seven guns in one.

How about that 60's toy SIXFINGER.
I think that toy finger also was a toy gun.
http://www.samstoybox.com/toys/Sixfinger.html
I had one of those too.

Things are a little different today.
Teachers have little say over the bad kid.
Parents fail and parents are the number 1 problem for a child's poor behavior in class as well as at home. And teachers can be sued, humiliated, tormented, fired should they dare
suggest little Charlie Manson might need a bit more attention and home discipline by the parent.
Naturally, it's all the teachers fault.

What's the first thing a parent defends when their little Charlie Manson murders the neighbor kid, the neighbors dog, or robs the corner 7-11?
MY KID WOULD"NT DO THAT. COULD NEVER DO THAT. HE'S A GOOD KID.
NOW GET OFF MY LAWN OR I'LL KICK YOUR ASS.
 
Last edited:

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Kids don't have rights in school. They need to shut up, sit the fuck down, learn what we're teaching, then get the fuck out. School was not created for socialization, humor, sports, kissing, handholding, using drugs, making cell phone calls, playing video games, trading pokemon cards, or any of the hundred other things kids do nowadays. Can the school check their lockers? Hell yeah. Their backpacks? Fuck yeah. I'm sending my kid to school to learn from the teacher, and the sooner we can get all the asswipes who are disturbing that interaction somewhere else, the better.

I hope that really isn't your view on life.
 
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