For those that despise SUV's, might I ask what you drive?

[PlatinumGold]

forget the stopping distances vi. that's is a pointless argument. respond to the height of bumper issue.

 

[NFS4]

<< What about stopping, the shorter wheelbase sucks for that. >>


Stopping has NOTHING to do with wheelbase. Wheelbase comes into play for handling/steering/ride characteristics. Has nothing to do with braking.


<< forget the stopping distances vi. that's is a pointless argument. respond to the height of bumper issue. >>


If bumpers were the same height as cars, SUV's would have 5-5.5 inches ground clearance and would negate the benefits of being based off a pickup truck chasis for many SUV's.

If you want to talk lower bumper heights, look at car-based crossover SUV's (MDX, RX300, Highlander, CRV, etc.)

 

[PlatinumGold]

nfs4. i realize that suv's have high bumpers for clearance, but i also believe that MOST suv drivers NEVER require that kind of clearance. in the meantime that CLEARANCE is the reason for the HUGE difference in danger to drivers of passenger cars.

shouldn't the danger outweigh the marginal advantage that this clearance gives to the FEW who do require it from their SUV's. mb they should make the bumpers adjustable so that you can move it up when you actually need the clearance but are required to keep them down when driving on normal roads.

 

[vi edit]

<< forget the stopping distances vi. that's is a pointless argument. respond to the height of bumper issue. >>



I don't really have much of a reply. About the only thing that I can say is that many of them are based off of a truck platform, and therefore have inherited truck platform nuances. Unless you required the trucks as well to comply to the same standards, I see really no reason why an SUV of the same molding should have to be different.

As far as actually classifying and SUV, well, that comes down to politics and money my friend. My GMC Jimmy says truck on it in about 4 different places, and is built off of a truck frame, but the state still requires me to register it as a car so that they can milk me $350 a year in registration vs. the flat fee of $58 for truck registration.

 

[NFS4]

<< nfs4. i realize that suv's have high bumpers for clearance, but i also believe that MOST suv drivers NEVER require that kind of clearance. in the meantime that CLEARANCE is the reason for the HUGE difference in danger to drivers of passenger cars.

shouldn't the danger outweigh the marginal advantage that this clearance gives to the FEW who do require it from their SUV's. mb they should make the bumpers adjustable so that you can move it up when you actually need the clearance but are required to keep them down when driving on normal roads. >>


Well, if you do it for SUV's, you have to do it to pickups as well. "Adjustable bumper height?" Expensive, heavy, and no one would pay for the option.

It's not as easy as you make it out to be.

 

[PlatinumGold]

nfs4

it would be no more expensive than airbags or passive restraint systems. but once they became mandatory the auto manufacturers had no problems installing them.

those are just excuses and you know it. truth is SUV's and 4 wheel drive pickups are all very dangerous.

 

[Murphyrulez]

<<

You spent $30k on that jacked up El Camino monstrosity?! Uh, congratulations.

BTW, my car gets ~20 mpg city, I paid $28k, and I could give 3 flying fscks how many people fit in it. Also, it is neither a "sports" nor "luxury" car.

Oh, and I didn't buy the car to "one up" my friends, I bought it because I got a good deal on it. >>



You spent $28k on that tiny souped up Honda?? Uh, congratulations... <--- See how stupid you sound? It goes both ways, asshat.

I have a report from an owner of a CL type S who says his car is getting 17 miles to the gallon.

It's funny you don't care how many people fit in YOUR car, but you will jump all over my case about how many fit in MY car.

And let me quote from the Acura website:


<<
In the tradition of the Gran Turismo, the CL both stirs the heart and eases the mind of the present-day driving enthusiast, with an exceptional blend of high performance and benchmark Acura luxury. Beneath the CL's sleek exterior lies an advanced powertrain and a sturdy yet agile chassis - delivering quick response, precise handling and impressive power. At the same time, the CL offers luxurious appointments and a long list of features designed for pure comfort. This synergy of performance and refinement renders the CL an achievement in design and engineering.
>>



Wow. sounds like a sports and luxury car.

Anything else you want me to refute?

 

[NFS4]

<< nfs4

it would be no more expensive than airbags or passive restraint systems. but once they became mandatory the auto manufacturers had no problems installing them.

those are just excuses and you know it. truth is SUV's and 4 wheel drive pickups are all very dangerous. >>


Think about it though. Adjustable bumpers that move up and down? It is so ridiculous and unfeasable to implement on ALL pickups and SUV's. Do you know how hard that would be to do?? If you do it on one, you have to do it on all of them.

How are you going to do it? Are you going to make it user controllable? No one would use it. Are you going to make it automatic?? Then what are people going to do when they need the extra leverage? Please, tell me where you go this idea from anyway??

Don't just think that b/c it sounds good that it would work good in the real world. You're talking about putting a motor up in front of the engine to ratchet a bumper up and down. A BUMPER!!!!!!!!!!!!! And if that's the case, you'd have to put one in the back too for cars that run into the back of SUV's and pickups. Oh, but how are you going to deal with the tailgate/hatch? What about trucks that have trailer hitch to worry about?? We can't forget about that. Bet you didn't think about that did you????

Like I said, don't just start thinking stuff up out of thin air and expect it to be the solution to all your problems. An air suspsension that raises/lowers the entire vehicle by a CONSIDERABLE amount of distance would be more feasible than some whacky idea of moveable bumpers. Even then, that is an expensive option that you only see in vehicles like the Audi All-Road, etc. I think that the Audi has a height travel of about 2 - 3 inches from lowest to highest setting.


And do you notice how people are NOW including pickups instead of just saying SUV's?? Kinda funny to me

 

[Ornery]

"...truth is SUV's and 4 wheel drive pickups are all very dangerous..."

Man, that's twisted. Sounds like you're looking at it from the glass is half empty perspective. From the point of view of the SUV owner, the glass is half full. The damn thing is safe as a tank! That's the best reason I can think of to buy one. Towing trailers and hauling cargo is all well and good, but safety is top of the list in my book.

I've yet to hear why those things are expected "to be used" off road, when nobody expects econoboxes with ground effects and spoilers "to be used" on a track. Why buy a dangerously fast accelerating car when it will "never be used" on a track. Just a stupid consumer decision there, no?

And if all light trucks and SUVs were removed from the road, we would still see more crash fatalities due to proliferation of lighter vehicles:

• "The increased risks for small car occupants who are in collisions with larger cars are easily recognized. But, it is also true that even in single vehicle crashes, there is increased risk of serious injury or death." NHTSA, Small Car Safety In The 1980's at 59 (1980).
  
  There are two basic reasons for this: smaller cars have less "survival space" for their occupants, and they have less physical structure to "absorb and manage crash energy and forces" in the event of a collision. Id. at 64.

 

[PlatinumGold]

laugh all you want nfs4 but check what you just quoted off me. it says 4 wheel drive pickups, which basically is the same thing as an SUV.

i also post this knowing full well that by this fall i will be driving a vehicle guilty of this very thing. but that doesn't change facts. High Clearance vehicles and their bumpers are signifcantly more dangerous in a head on collision to the average passenger car. this is a fact. you have'nt tried to deny it nor has anyone else to post yet.

IF this is a fact, shouldn't something be done about it??

don't use eg of semis, school buses, dump trucks or any other specialty vehicle because their numbers are not significant. SUV's and 4 wheel drive pickup trucks make up a large number of vehicles on the road, it's true i don't have the exact statistical numbers at my fingertips, but it is an undeniable fact even tho i don't have the numbers at my fingertips.

this doesnt pose as significant a threat to me and my family because my wife drives a ford windstar (despite what anyone wants to say about ford quality the windstar does well in crash tests) and i'll be driving an avalanche by this fall, so it's not about what will happen to me or mine, but it is a general fact.

 

[NFS4]

<< laugh all you want nfs4 but check what you just quoted off me. it says 4 wheel drive pickups, which basically is the same thing as an SUV.

i also post this knowing full well that by this fall i will be driving a vehicle guilty of this very thing. but that doesn't change facts. High Clearance vehicles and their bumpers are signifcantly more dangerous in a head on collision to the average passenger car. this is a fact. you have'nt tried to deny it nor has anyone else to post yet.

IF this is a fact, shouldn't something be done about it??

don't use eg of semis, school buses, dump trucks or any other specialty vehicle because their numbers are not significant. SUV's and 4 wheel drive pickup trucks make up a large number of vehicles on the road, it's true i don't have the exact statistical numbers at my fingertips, but it is an undeniable fact even tho i don't have the numbers at my fingertips.

this doesnt pose as significant a threat to me and my family because my wife drives a ford windstar (despite what anyone wants to say about ford quality the windstar does well in crash tests) and i'll be driving an avalanche by this fall, so it's not about what will happen to me or mine, but it is a general fact. >>


While bumpers may be the problem, you still haven't addressed my concerns as to why what you are saying WON'T be implemented. Hope you don't run over anybody driving a Geo Metro in your Avalanche

 

[HappyPuppy]

Razor scooter.

 

[PlatinumGold]

nfs4

my idea as presented wasn't the catchall solution, nor was it intended to be. the whole purpose for the idea was to point out that a problem does exist. i'm not an engineer. i don't have the perfect solution, but can you deny that the problem does exist?

as to the metro, i hope no one in any suv runs into a metro. would you want that on ur conscience?

 

[Ornery]

"...i hope no one in any suv runs into a metro..."

Couple weeks ago I saw a FWD something or other (they all look the same to me) that had freshly rear ended a half ton pickup. The pickup's chrome bumper was twisted under slightly. The econobox looked like it had hit a fixed object! It's whole front end was like an accordion up to the windshield. Yeah, I hope he appreciates all the dollars he saves in gasoline with that death trap!

 

[PlatinumGold]

ornery

but that goes to prove the point of the SUV haters (obviously i'm not one of them cause i plan on buying a said SUV by this fall)

 

[glenn1]

I'm driving a 1994 Accura Integra, because i'm not a fan of larger vehicles. I've always driven smaller size cars, from a VW Rabbit back in the day, to a Civic hatchback, to a Saturn 4-door, to my Accura now. Of course, i'm one of the strongest defenders of the SUV here, as i think you have the right to drive whatever you want so long as it's roadworthy. Go buy your SUVs, and have fun

 

[Ornery]

"Go buy your SUVs, and have fun..."

Waaaaahhhh... could somebody spare about $40.000.00?

 

[Deleted member 54998]

NFS4
Are you now saying that trucks are just as bad as SUVs, or are you still tyring to claim that SUVs are really safe.

The bottom line is that people buy SUVs instead of cars and as a result they hurt the environment and make the roads less safe for those around them.

 

[Cyberian]

I actually do drive a Geo Metro - do I win a prize??

 

[psteng19]

<< Your point? How is this the fault of an SUV? Instead as you clearly show yourself, its the fault of the BUYER/PURCHASER. The SUV is just a car and if it's the "in" thing, then it is.. not like the car itself can control itself. Your resentment is misdirected and should point in impracticial buyers.... which as I stated earilier, is esentially everyone.

I was wrong on the gass guzzler tax. So I stand corrected on that matter. But again, is this the blame of an SUV? Or rather greedy American companies? How is this again, the fault of the SUV itself.

Now the safety issues of SUVs is possibly the only valid one can bring up about them. I agree with you, they do impede visions sometimes, and are realtively unsafe compared to other vehicles. But don't vans and truck impede your vision? And those monstrous big-rigs dont either? >>



Let me rephrase myself. I don't hate SUV's. I kinda like some of 'em actually (RX300, QX4, Pathfinder, MDX, X5), but I'll never buy one.

I don't resent any car or anyone. It just seems silly to me and unpractical to me to own an SUV for the reasons already stated in this thread.
If there's anyone to blame, it's the consumers. They're the ones creating the demand.

Vans and trucks block my vision as well, but I know that they bought/use it for practical reasons, so it doesn't get to me as much.

 

[snut]

i drive a tacoma 4x4 that I put to use..like going 4wheeling, prerunning, hauling my mountin bikes around

 

[Wingnut]

<< Basically, I believe in cars that make sense for the people who drive them. A Volvo or a good minivan would be just as safe as a luxury SUV. A luxury SUV is an oxymoron... I've never seen a luxury SUV used for anything other than showing off in the grocery store parking lot. >>



Which is a serious epidemic here in Florida...a big rip-off/show-off state! Trust me, this isn't limited to women either.

Let me refer back to one of my boat-in-tow incidences. I was pulling up to a light at fairly slow speeds as I always do and noticed a 4ft 3inch little kid driving a full size Blazer to the right of me on a cell phone kinda looking around the area like someone was giving him directions. I said to myself to keep an eye out for this kid.

We both proceeded when the light turned green and I let him pull far enough ahead of me until I saw him slowing down up ahead a ways.

What does this little Sh!t do? He waits to cut across in front of me only as I am approaching him just so he can make a left turn off the road! :|

Needless to say my trailer (which does have brakes) jackknifed into the next lane and plumes of smoke emitted from all six wheels!!! I could have ripped this little weasel by his neck straight from his seat and out of the passenger window !!! Thank god there was nobody in the right hand lane or I would've had a serious lawsuit on my hand so I ask all careless SUV drivers...does your insurance cover that if this was your fault...Hell No! . This brat probably couldn't see me coming due to all the stickers he had on his rear windshield!

 

[jeffrey]

I drive cars period. I don't care for two feet of squat in an SUV when I accelerate, nor do I care for two feet of dive when I need to stop fast. I have owned an 87 IROC 5.0L 5spd and a 98 Civic EX 1.6L 5spd. I like driving and I like to shift what I drive myself and I want it to be more or less nimble. When I drive on the back roads I like dropping a gear and enjoying the ride, not the body-roll of an SUV. Furthermore I only need to get gas about every two weeks and most of the time it's just me, at most it's normally just me and my girl. No need or desire for an SUV here.

 

[PlatinumGold]

jeffery


sounds like the mazda miata would be the car for you. or an old triumph.

those old british sports cars, quality wasn't worth squat but they handled well when they weren't falling apart.

 

[Dragnov]

<< I don't resent any car or anyone. It just seems silly to me and unpractical to me to own an SUV for the reasons already stated in this thread.
If there's anyone to blame, it's the consumers. They're the ones creating the demand. >>



Exactly. How are you going to blame the SUV which is designed for Off-Roading and always will be (because that is meant for) for being not being used correctly. I see the fuel efficiency point has gone to mute... Now I'm getting arguments to change the style of an SUV?! It's a SPORTS UTILITY VEHICLE. As you said, if anyone it is to blame it is the impractical consumer... but once again, aren't we all impracitical consumers? Once again, theres no need for a v6 Camry, 8 cylinder Jag, sports cars w/ spoilers, etc. etc. The list goes on.



<< The bottom line is that people buy SUVs instead of cars and as a result they hurt the environment and make the roads less safe for those around them. >>


And this the fault of the SUV how? Please answer this question. Trucks hurt the enviroment and make roads less safe around them virtually the same amount as shown. Are you a truck hater also? Are you going blame a truck for being designed for being used as a truck? Are you going to blame an SUV for not being used as an SUV?