For those that got the "Free" mouse at CompUSA Easter Sales...Check Your Cards!

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: govtcheez75
You are brilliant. You must have the highest IQ of anyone on this forum.

Last time I checked, YOU were the bright guy with the $250 bill. bwahahha.

Thank God you have graced us with your presence. We are all forever grateful.

Thank you for jacking 9 people on a potential hot deal. I love how you claim to be a nice person in the meanwhile.

I never said that I didn't whine. I think I have every right to.

You have absolutely NO right to whine, since you got exactly what you deserve. Happy phone calling... I hope you like being placed on hold...listening to "on hold" music...etc.

I think your stupidity speaks for itself. I really am out of my place to resort to such childish behaviors as this, but you more than deserve it.

Well, I dunno. The dood registered JUST for this thread...and sounded quite artificial in his support of you...and gave really stupid reasons why it's okay to order more than your fair share (which it isn't)....etc. I guess the bottom line is that there are ppl on this forum who are greedy and could care less about others -- the same ppl who scratch their heads and whine when they get what they deserve...absolutely clueless. You're one of them. Happy Easter.

Valsalva

 

[lnvisible1]

i don't know whether cheez really did this for his friends or not, and neither do any of you. but once (only once has this actually happened), i was ordering some optical mice ($1.99 each), and i hooked up a mouse each for my 2 roommates, and 6 other floormates . that's 8 friends + 1 for me = 9 mice. hoarding a deal? i don't think so. they didn't want to go through the hassle of registering as a new buyer and give up their info just to buy the mouse, so hopped onto my purchase, which i think is perfectly legit. maybe cheez should have explained his situation more clearly in his first post so that it doesn't look like he's making up the story as this is progressing along, but...

 

[AquariusX]

Yet another waste of server space....

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: adimiron

Actually ordering 10 mouses is not unethical in the slightest. Perhaps in your opinion, maybe...but to order 10 mice with the intent to pass on the benefits to others? Not unethical. And definitely not "shafting 9 other people out of your own self-interest." From what I see, myself and govtcheese, as well as a few other people who made small orders (yes, 10 is small, as I've heard stories of people ordering 100s, if not 1000s!), *are* looking out for others.

Irrelevant. I already made the argument previously that it would be unacceptable to order 10,000 just as it is unacceptable to order 1,000, or 100, or 10. In each case, you are taking way more than your fair share of this deal -- your "intention" of passing them on to friends does NOT supercede the right of an individual to order 1 for himself. If you agree that it is immoral to order 10,000 or 1,000 regardless of your intention, then it follows that it is immoral to order 10. This is reductio ad absurdum. Look it up, smart guy.

The others just don't happen to be *you*, which is funny, considering how you trumpet the poor ATer who couldn't get in on this deal and got shafted, when it appears you'd have gladly ordered one yourself. That could have shafted 1 other person.

No, govtcheese/admiron. I didn't order this mouse, nor did I attempt to. Try reading before you making brazen assumptions.

Justice is the ball of hate and self-loathing that you seem to have become. *That's* karma, my friend.[/quote]

Yeah, don't pay yourself on the back too quickly for that statement because if you re-read it, it doesn't really say anything. You're not as witty as you might think.

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: lnvisible1
i don't know whether cheez really did this for his friends or not, and neither do any of you. but once (only once has this actually happened), i was ordering some optical mice ($1.99 each), and i hooked up a mouse each for my 2 roommates, and 6 other floormates . that's 8 friends + 1 for me = 9 mice. hoarding a deal? i don't think so. they didn't want to go through the hassle of registering as a new buyer and give up their info just to buy the mouse, so hopped onto my purchase, which i think is perfectly legit. maybe cheez should have explained his situation more clearly in his first post so that it doesn't look like he's making up the story as this is progressing along, but...

It is irrelevant whether govtcheez75 intended to pass this deal onto friends or sell them on e-bay...you can test this assertion by asking whether it would be okay if I ordered 10,000 to give to friends. Would that be okay? No. Why? Because my "right" to give 10,000 mice away (stipulate that I have 10,000 friends) DOES NOT supercede the right of 9,999 ppl to get in on this deal, regardless of my intentions. The reason is that I would be taking way more than my fair share, just like govtcheez75 and several other people did. That's the bottom line.

Valsalva

 

[adimiron]

Well, I dunno. The dood registered JUST for this thread...and sounded quite artificial in his support of you...and gave really stupid reasons why it's okay to order more than your fair share

artificial is a euphamism for "I can't come up with a real argument, so I'll trumpet the same tripe about how someone else (me, really) gets screwed when this happens...", right? am I understanding your definition correctly?

(which it isn't)....etc.

your opinion, which you are entitled to. it still doesn't mean it's any more right than mine.

I guess the bottom line is that there are ppl on this forum who are greedy and could care less about others -- the same ppl who scratch their heads and whine when they get what they deserve...absolutely clueless. You're one of them. Happy Easter.

If someone orders something and gives it to someone else, then that's hardly greed or being uncaring about others. reductio ad absurdum yourself, genius.

 

[UncleWai]

I guess you don't belong in America, Mother Russia wants you back.
If something is on sale at a very cheap price and the store did not state any purchase limit,
customers have the right to buy however many he wants.

 

[holden j caufield]

if you're buying a bunch of these for friends or what not then kudos for you. If you're looking to buy 50+ like some have claimed, well that is what you have chosen to do. I visit another forum to post any hot deals and to be honest if I did find any scorching hot deals there is no way I would post it here. First is the fact that 90% or so will abuse anything they find and try to turn a profit. That is fine because we do live in a capitalist society. But this mentality will simply destroy the hot deals. The sad part is that there are those who haven't chimed in and simply lurk probably ordered hundreds of these things.

 

[AUMM]

Originally posted by: k000
Dude.. I am not saying you can't have 9 friends.. but ordering 10.. and then crying when you get burnt is another matter...

You tried.. they didn't give you for free.. too bad.. Just cancel your order !

And remember : speak easy !

Originally posted by: govtcheez75

Originally posted by: k000 Yeah yeah... you have 9 friends who needed this FREE mouse.. I feel sorry for them, and sorry for you ! I'm sorry you don't have 9 friends. I'm sure if you lightened up, you will make some more friends in the future. Good luck.

why the hell shouldnt he be pissed?? if i was told the mice were free and got charged for em afterwards ide sure be upset as well

 

[soltrain]

Welcome to Anandtech Forums, where personal attacks are not locked and enouraged to keep threads going and going...

mods?

 

[lnvisible1]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: lnvisible1
i don't know whether cheez really did this for his friends or not, and neither do any of you. but once (only once has this actually happened), i was ordering some optical mice ($1.99 each), and i hooked up a mouse each for my 2 roommates, and 6 other floormates . that's 8 friends + 1 for me = 9 mice. hoarding a deal? i don't think so. they didn't want to go through the hassle of registering as a new buyer and give up their info just to buy the mouse, so hopped onto my purchase, which i think is perfectly legit. maybe cheez should have explained his situation more clearly in his first post so that it doesn't look like he's making up the story as this is progressing along, but...

It is irrelevant whether govtcheez75 intended to pass this deal onto friends or sell them on e-bay...you can test this assertion by asking whether it would be okay if I ordered 10,000 to give to friends. Would that be okay? No. Why? Because my "right" to give 10,000 mice away (stipulate that I have 10,000 friends) DOES NOT supercede the right of 9,999 ppl to get in on this deal, regardless of my intentions. The reason is that I would be taking way more than my fair share, just like govtcheez75 and several other people did. That's the bottom line.

Valsalva

so what's the magic number? how many is ok? 1?...2?....3?....who get's to decide what is ok? i think it's a case by case basis.

 

[adimiron]

Irrelevant. I already made the argument previously that it would be unacceptable to order 10,000 just as it is unacceptable to order 1,000, or 100, or 10. In each case, you are taking way more than your fair share of this deal -- your "intention" of passing them on to friends does NOT supercede the right of an individual to order 1 for himself. If you agree that it is immoral to order 10,000 or 1,000 regardless of your intention, then it follows that it is immoral to order 10. This is reductio ad absurdum. Look it up, smart guy.

Your assumption that only ordering one as being the correct moral choice is amusing. You seem to have no issue confusing orders of magnitude. By your logic, the number is irrelevant, meaning that by anyone ordering any number of mice is immoral, whether 1 or more, as they could infringe upon the "right" of any other individual to order that same mouse or mouses. You're trying to disprove the entire economic system. Do you enjoy socialism?

The others just don't happen to be *you*, which is funny, considering how you trumpet the poor ATer who couldn't get in on this deal and got shafted, when it appears you'd have gladly ordered one yourself. That could have shafted 1 other person.

No, govtcheese/admiron. I didn't order this mouse, nor did I attempt to. Try reading before you making brazen assumptions.

I apologize for the assumption, I was incorrect, and see that after reading you typo-post. On the other hand, all you seem to be operating on *are* assumptions about people you've never met. Interesting.

J

Justice is the ball of hate and self-loathing that you seem to have become. *That's* karma, my friend.

Yeah, don't pay yourself on the back too quickly for that statement because if you re-read it, it doesn't really say anything. You're not as witty as you might think.

Actually, by trumpeting about how immoral everyone is for ordering any number of mouses, and getting angry and wishing ill on others, you become a rather unpleasant person. That is ironic. I've never met you and I already see you as unpleasant. I can only imagine how that works out for you in other arenas. It is karma because by being unpleasant, it affects your everyday life. So you pay in other places, simply because you cannot see past your supposition that people are trying to help their friends. That's what that actually says.

I'm still waiting for you to post something that isn't an assumption, or a repeat of your own opinion.

 

[govtcheez75]

So, let me get this straight. My "fair share", as you put it, is 1 mouse? I'd hate to explain the laws of Supply and Demand, but this logic of thinking would pretty much put any company out of business. If CompUSA had 1,000 mice to sell, and 10 people were willing to buy, and were entitled to only 1 mouse each...CompUSA would only sell 10 mice. Now if the same 10 people wanted 100 mice each, CompUSA would sell all of their mice.

I don't by any means condone, or encourage buying more than you need, but I see no crime in trying to help out your immediate friends. If you don't believe my story about giving these mice away, then that's fine. Believe what you will. Contrary to what you may believe, we live in a democratic society, that has what is called a "free market enterprise".

...and to further prove your ignorance, I have 20 or so references from this very forum that will vouch for who I am, and where I live. I'm sure Admiron can prove his identity rather easily as well.

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: lnvisible1
i don't know whether cheez really did this for his friends or not, and neither do any of you. but once (only once has this actually happened), i was ordering some optical mice ($1.99 each), and i hooked up a mouse each for my 2 roommates, and 6 other floormates . that's 8 friends + 1 for me = 9 mice. hoarding a deal? i don't think so. they didn't want to go through the hassle of registering as a new buyer and give up their info just to buy the mouse, so hopped onto my purchase, which i think is perfectly legit. maybe cheez should have explained his situation more clearly in his first post so that it doesn't look like he's making up the story as this is progressing along, but...

It is irrelevant whether govtcheez75 intended to pass this deal onto friends or sell them on e-bay...you can test this assertion by asking whether it would be okay if I ordered 10,000 to give to friends. Would that be okay? No. Why? Because my "right" to give 10,000 mice away (stipulate that I have 10,000 friends) DOES NOT supercede the right of 9,999 ppl to get in on this deal, regardless of my intentions. The reason is that I would be taking way more than my fair share, just like govtcheez75 and several other people did. That's the bottom line.

Valsalva

 

[adimiron]

It is irrelevant whether govtcheez75 intended to pass this deal onto friends or sell them on e-bay...

There's a great distance between trying to profit and trying to help others. I'd think that would play heavily in anyone's argument that also involves the word "morality."

you can test this assertion by asking whether it would be okay if I ordered 10,000 to give to friends. Would that be okay? No. Why? Because my "right" to give 10,000 mice away (stipulate that I have 10,000 friends) DOES NOT supercede the right of 9,999 ppl to get in on this deal, regardless of my intentions. The reason is that I would be taking way more than my fair share, just like govtcheez75 and several other people did. That's the bottom line.

What is the limit of fair share? Ordering a single mouse supercedes the right of someone else to buy that same one. Is 5 ok? How about 3, if I have 3 computers? Even at 1, someone else still loses out.

Your fair share argument lacks substance.

(in other news, it 3am and I'm going to sleep, so feel free to direct any other replies to my private msg box rather than continuing this in public forum.)

 

[zsir]

WTF...........I ordered 10,000...for my whole town of course.............

Oh sh*t..........I'm gonna sue ........

This will teach them to try and give something away for free.....

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: adimiron

Irrelevant. I already made the argument previously that it would be unacceptable to order 10,000 just as it is unacceptable to order 1,000, or 100, or 10. In each case, you are taking way more than your fair share of this deal -- your "intention" of passing them on to friends does NOT supercede the right of an individual to order 1 for himself. If you agree that it is immoral to order 10,000 or 1,000 regardless of your intention, then it follows that it is immoral to order 10. This is reductio ad absurdum. Look it up, smart guy.

Your assumption that only ordering one as being the correct moral choice is amusing. You seem to have no issue confusing orders of magnitude. By your logic, the number is irrelevant, meaning that by anyone ordering any number of mice is immoral, whether 1 or more, as they could infringe upon the "right" of any other individual to order that same mouse or mouses. You're trying to disprove the entire economic system. Do you enjoy socialism?

The right of an individual to order 1 mouse is EQUAL to the right of another individual to order 1 mouse. That stipulation should be blatantly obvious in my argument. Your smoke screen about disproving the economic system and socialism is completely tangential...are you, by chance, schizophrenic?

It is karma because by being unpleasant, it affects your everyday life. So you pay in other places, simply because you cannot see past your supposition that people are trying to help their friends. That's what that actually says.

Yeah, your logic still doesn't make any sense. Your conclusion does not follow at all from your premises. Good grief.

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: govtcheez75
So, let me get this straight. My "fair share", as you put it, is 1 mouse? I'd hate to explain the laws of Supply and Demand, but this logic of thinking would pretty much put any company out of business. If CompUSA had 1,000 mice to sell, and 10 people were willing to buy, and were entitled to only 1 mouse each...CompUSA would only sell 10 mice. Now if the same 10 people wanted 100 mice each, CompUSA would sell all of their mice.

Your argument falls right flat on its face because:
a) demand far exceeds supply (which is the usual case in a hot deal).
b) compUSA would NOT be put out of business because they actually LOSE money by selling these mice...they eat at least a few dollars on each mouse sold because they have to pay for actual shipping costs.
c) your numbers are unrealistic and inconsistent with reality.
Jesus....and they wonder Johnny can go through 12 grades of public school and still can't spell or add.

I don't by any means condone, or encourage buying more than you need, but I see no crime in trying to help out your immediate friends. If you don't believe my story about giving these mice away, then that's fine. Believe what you will. Contrary to what you may believe, we live in a democratic society, that has what is called a "free market enterprise".

It is irrelevant whether you are helping out friends. I have already said this several times and I'm beginning to wonder if you know what the word "irrelevant" means. Please consult a dictionary before replying again.

...and to further prove your ignorance, I have 20 or so references from this very forum that will vouch for who I am, and where I live. I'm sure Admiron can prove his identity rather easily as well.

Your references are irrelevant. The fact is that you hoarded this deal, jacked 9 people, and you're paying the price for it. End of discussion.

Valsalva

 

[render]

Some people ordered 99 mice. so what? (I personally don't care whether they ebay the mice or not) If you don't like capitalism, go somewhere.

 

[lnvisible1]

is it possible for 1 person to 'represent' 10 people? if i had a family of 10 and everyone wanted one, would i be entitled the right to order 10 mice...or do each of them have to go online, establish an account, order one each to the same address and waste postage and packaging for compusa?

 

[govtcheez75]

You keep claiming that I "Jacked" 9 people. Which 9 people did I "jack"? I told you that I was not even going to keep a single one for myself...so I guess by your theory, I might have "jacked" 10 people? Can you please name the 10 people that I "jacked"? I can actually name the 10 people who might have benefitted from these mice. And you claim that this whole argument is irrelevant? Please do us all a favor by never participating in the Hot Deals forum, as so you won't "Jack" anyone out of their Hot Deal.

and CompUSA does not lose money. If they lose $1 on this deal, they will make up $2 somewhere else. The numbers that were given were done so to make matters simple...so you could understand them. They weren't exact figures that represents CompUSA or any other business, for that matter. And MOST of the times, the supply does exceed demand. This happens to be one of the rare cases where the item was advertised as free, and therefore, the demand is closest to infinite as it can get.

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: govtcheez75
So, let me get this straight. My "fair share", as you put it, is 1 mouse? I'd hate to explain the laws of Supply and Demand, but this logic of thinking would pretty much put any company out of business. If CompUSA had 1,000 mice to sell, and 10 people were willing to buy, and were entitled to only 1 mouse each...CompUSA would only sell 10 mice. Now if the same 10 people wanted 100 mice each, CompUSA would sell all of their mice.

Your argument falls right flat on its face because:
a) demand far exceeds supply (which is the usual case in a hot deal).
b) compUSA would NOT be put out of business because they actually LOSE money by selling these mice...they eat at least a few dollars on each mouse sold because they have to pay for actual shipping costs.
c) your numbers are unrealistic and inconsistent with reality.
Jesus....and they wonder Johnny can go through 12 grades of public school and still can't spell or add.

I don't by any means condone, or encourage buying more than you need, but I see no crime in trying to help out your immediate friends. If you don't believe my story about giving these mice away, then that's fine. Believe what you will. Contrary to what you may believe, we live in a democratic society, that has what is called a "free market enterprise".

It is irrelevant whether you are helping out friends. I have already said this several times and I'm beginning to wonder if you know what the word "irrelevant" means. Please consult a dictionary before replying again.

...and to further prove your ignorance, I have 20 or so references from this very forum that will vouch for who I am, and where I live. I'm sure Admiron can prove his identity rather easily as well.

Your references are irrelevant. The fact is that you hoarded this deal, jacked 9 people, and you're paying the price for it. End of discussion.

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: adimiron

It is irrelevant whether govtcheez75 intended to pass this deal onto friends or sell them on e-bay...

There's a great distance between trying to profit and trying to help others. I'd think that would play heavily in anyone's argument that also involves the word "morality."

It doesn't because ordering 9 extra mice for your friends infringes on the right of 9 people to get a single mouse for themselves...there aren't enough mice to go around, and therefore, it is very poor-form to take more than your fair share.

you can test this assertion by asking whether it would be okay if I ordered 10,000 to give to friends. Would that be okay? No. Why? Because my "right" to give 10,000 mice away (stipulate that I have 10,000 friends) DOES NOT supercede the right of 9,999 ppl to get in on this deal, regardless of my intentions. The reason is that I would be taking way more than my fair share, just like govtcheez75 and several other people did. That's the bottom line.

What is the limit of fair share? Ordering a single mouse supercedes the right of someone else to buy that same one. Is 5 ok? How about 3, if I have 3 computers? Even at 1, someone else still loses out.

I'm glad you ask. Here are my stipulations:
1) Ordering 1 is acceptable because you have every right to 1 mouse that the next guy does
2) perhaps 2 or 3 would be okay too, only because it is difficult to argue against.
3) It is NOT okay to order 10,000 mice such that nobody gets a single one, REGARDLESS of your "good intentions." Therefore, there MUST be a limit to the number of mice you can order before it becomes unethical, REGARDLESS of your reasons.
4) I argue that that particular limit is way less than 10. There are almost no legitimate reasons for why someone should be able to order 10 mice if 9 other ppl would get jacked in the process.
5) If someone orders more than his "fair share," then he absolutely 100% deserves to suffer consequences directly related to his moral transgression. This includes, but is not limited to, a) getting flamed on AT, b) getting overcharged by a LOT, c) having to call compUSSR and CC, and d) going over CC limit, etc. This stipulation is based on the principles of justice and Karma.

Happy Easter.

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: govtcheez75
You keep claiming that I "Jacked" 9 people. Which 9 people did I "jack"? I told you that I was not even going to keep a single one for myself...so I guess by your theory, I might have "jacked" 10 people? Can you please name the 10 people that I "jacked"? I can actually name the 10 people who might have benefitted from these mice. And you claim that this whole argument is irrelevant? Please do us all a favor by never participating in the Hot Deals forum, as so you won't "Jack" anyone out of their Hot Deal.

Good GOD, this is your worst counterargument yet. Just because I cannot name the 9-10 people you screwed over DOES NOT mean that you didn't actually jack 9-10 people. You DID jack 9-10 people, regardless of whether I can produce their names. I also notice that you make the same (refuted) argument that ordering 1 mouse is not morally acceptable. I have already addressed this several times. Please refer to one of those response. Oh, and Happy Easter.

Valsalva

 

[govtcheez75]

Well...I guess if by "jacking" 9 people I don't know, I help out 10 people that I DO know, I'm doing OK. I'm sure no one else on this forum would do that. I'm sure they're always looking out for the likes of me and you over their immediate friends and family.
You need a reality check.

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: govtcheez75
You keep claiming that I "Jacked" 9 people. Which 9 people did I "jack"? I told you that I was not even going to keep a single one for myself...so I guess by your theory, I might have "jacked" 10 people? Can you please name the 10 people that I "jacked"? I can actually name the 10 people who might have benefitted from these mice. And you claim that this whole argument is irrelevant? Please do us all a favor by never participating in the Hot Deals forum, as so you won't "Jack" anyone out of their Hot Deal.

Good GOD, this is your worst counterargument yet. Just because I cannot name the 9-10 people you screwed over DOES NOT mean that you didn't actually jack 9-10 people. You DID jack 9-10 people, regardless of whether I can produce their names. I also notice that you make the same (refuted) argument that ordering 1 mouse is not morally acceptable. I have already addressed this several times. Please refer to one of those response. Oh, and Happy Easter.

Valsalva

 

[adimiron]

Still up, unfortunately, and I see someone refuses to take this to PM...

Your assumption that only ordering one as being the correct moral choice is amusing. You seem to have no issue confusing orders of magnitude. By your logic, the number is irrelevant, meaning that by anyone ordering any number of mice is immoral, whether 1 or more, as they could infringe upon the "right" of any other individual to order that same mouse or mouses. You're trying to disprove the entire economic system. Do you enjoy socialism?

The right of an individual to order 1 mouse is EQUAL to the right of another individual to order 1 mouse. That stipulation should be blatantly obvious in my argument. Your smoke screen about disproving the economic system and socialism is completely tangential...are you, by chance, schizophrenic?

If the rights are equal only in a case of 1 mouse, then you are telling me that no one should buy a mouse for another person. Even if asked. If mom wants a mouse, she has to order it herself. That's ridiculous.

And my "smoke screen" is hardly tangential. You've yet again suggested that a socialist solution is the only moral and ethical one.

It is karma because by being unpleasant, it affects your everyday life. So you pay in other places, simply because you cannot see past your supposition that people are trying to help their friends. That's what that actually says.

Yeah, your logic still doesn't make any sense. Your conclusion does not follow at all from your premises. Good grief.

Actually, it does. If you are bantering on about morals and karma and getting what one deserves, and your reaction to this makes others dislike you, then the obvious inference is that you are getting what you deserve for being unpleasant.

That's not so hard to read.

 

[lnvisible1]

I'm glad you ask. Here are my stipulations:
1) Ordering 1 is acceptable because you have every right to 1 mouse that the next guy does
2) perhaps 2 or 3 would be okay too, only because it is difficult to argue against.
3) It is NOT okay to order 10,000 mice such that nobody gets a single one, REGARDLESS of your "good intentions." Therefore, there MUST be a limit to the number of mice you can order before it becomes unethical, REGARDLESS of your reasons.
4) I argue that that particular limit is way less than 10. There are almost no legitimate reasons for why someone should be able to order 10 mice if 9 other ppl would get jacked in the process.
5) If someone orders more than his "fair share," then he absolutely 100% deserves to suffer consequences directly related to his moral transgression. This includes, but is not limited to, a) getting flamed on AT, b) getting overcharged by a LOT, c) having to call compUSSR and CC, and d) going over CC limit, etc. This stipulation is based on the principles of justice and Karma.

Happy Easter.

Valsalva

once you say point 2) - "perhaps 2 or 3 would be okay too, only because it is difficult to argue against", you've opened yourself to a non-absolute argument. is 4 much more easier to argue against than 2 or 3, and 5 that much more than 4, and so forth? obviously, 10 is much more than 2-3, but you know too that ordering more than your "fair share" is a gradience of wrong. 10,000 is much worse than 100, and 100 is much worse than 10. but why do you get to decide where the line is drawn?