For those who believe in the power of prayer...

[Pulsar]

Well, ok...

Whatever floats your boat.

You want proof, I ask you what. You dodge.

You don't want proof, you'd rather flap your gums.....

Actually, it's the other way around. He wants to know why you're so certain that yours is the right religion, and you doubt all others.

You've tap danced around it for almost 2 pages now. I doubt you'll ever answer, because there isn't a factually correct answer. So answer his question.

Why is your religion right and all the others wrong? He's not asking for proof. He's asking your to provide a well argued, rational, fact-based reason that your religion is the only 'true' religion. So let's hear it.

 

[Retro Rob]

Actually, it's the other way around. He wants to know why you're so certain that yours is the right religion, and you doubt all others.

You've tap danced around it for almost 2 pages now. I doubt you'll ever answer, because there isn't a factually correct answer. So answer his question.

Why is your religion right and all the others wrong? He's not asking for proof. He's asking your to provide a well argued, rational, fact-based reason that your religion is the only 'true' religion. So let's hear it.

Did I discredit other religions? Seriously, I need to see that. I can't find it.

I recall being asked about Islam, and I said I don't know enough about it and refused to discuss it.

Excuse me, but what religion did I say I belonged to?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Did I discredit other religions? Seriously, I need to see that. I can't find it.

I recall being asked about Islam, and I said I don't know enough about it and refused to discuss it.

Excuse me, but what religion did I say I belonged to?

Ok, let's make this REAL simple.

Do you believe in the god of Abraham? Why? Why not? Either way what led you to believe that the god you believe in is any more valid than any other god?

Is that general enough for you to answer it?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Ok, let's make this REAL simple.

Do you believe in the god of Abraham? Why? Why not? Either way what led you to believe that the god you believe in is any more valid than any other god?

Is that general enough for you to answer it?

He won't, religious cowards never do. But it does remind me of one of my favorite religious quotes: "“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”" ~ Stephen Roberts

 

[Retro Rob]

Ok, let's make this REAL simple.

Do you believe in the god of Abraham? Why? Why not? Either way what led you to believe that the god you believe in is any more valid than any other god?

Is that general enough for you to answer it?

I'm gonna make this REAL simple.

I am more than willing if you're willing to listen. I've talked with you before, you're really not at all interested in hearing what I have to say. You're not.. we BOTH know that.

I call yall out, hit me up PM if you're really interested....

More can be accomplished one-on-one to keep others from detracting from the discussion...

Either you sincerely want to know, or this is a very lightly-masked attempt to publicly humiliate me. Coward? No.. just hate arguing.

 

[coloumb]

Praying to "a god" may put some people in a certain mindset where they'll make themselves believe in something - but it's MEDICAL SCIENCE which heals you [or kills you].

But I do wonder though - can you be an atheist, believe you have a soul, and believe there is something more after you die?

 

[sandorski]

But I do wonder though - can you be an atheist, believe you have a soul, and believe there is something more after you die?

I suppose. Perhaps some form of Reincarnation could fit such a belief.

 

[Cpus]

lol this thread is hilarious.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I'm gonna make this REAL simple.

I am more than willing if you're willing to listen. I've talked with you before, you're really not at all interested in hearing what I have to say. You're not.. we BOTH know that.

I call yall out, hit me up PM if you're really interested....

More can be accomplished one-on-one to keep others from detracting from the discussion...

Either you sincerely want to know, or this is a very lightly-masked attempt to publicly humiliate me. Coward? No.. just hate arguing.

Bro... what you're not getting is two things:
1) fundamentalist perspectives are factually wrong on nearly every level
2) you're getting bit because we can't eat your pearls (and you're silly for trying to feed them to us)

 

[sourceninja]

A bigger question is, if god helps when you pray, would he be like "fuck you, i'm not helping" if you didn't pray?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

If anyone truly believed in the power of prayer when they were having a heart attack they'd pray rather than calling an ambulance. When their house was on fire they'd pray rather than calling the fire department. When caught in a gang shoot-out they'd pray and keep walking rather than diving behind cover. When seeing a hurricane bearing down on them they'd pray rather than buying food/water, flashlight batteries and plywood for their windows. The power of prayer is a sham and even the people who claim to pray know it. When the chips are down people turn to who they trust most and that trust is placed in the police and fire department, doctors and EMTs far more quickly and readily than it is placed in the invisible man in the sky. People only start praying AFTER they've called for real help.

man is in a flood and someone comes in a boat to save him; he says "no i'm sure God will save me. A little while longer another boat comes by, and again he says "no, i'm sure God will save me". Finally, just as the water is going to whisk him from the roof of his house a helicopter coms by and again he denies them and says "no, God is GOING to save me".

The man dies and goes to heaven; speaking to Jesus he says "I'm ever grateful for salvation, but I was SURE you were going to save me, what happened?"
Jesus answers: "well, we sent you 2 boats and a helicopter..."

My point is, Gag, that your argument so crappy that a basic-cliché story answers it.

Try again, this time using some small part of your cognitive abilities.

A bigger question is, if god helps when you pray, would he be like "fuck you, i'm not helping" if you didn't pray?

More like by not praying you are saying "fuck you, I don't need your help".

 

[OCNewbie]

How did God send those boats, helicopters, etc? Did he engage in temporary mind control, and insert subliminal messages into that boat operator's thoughts by making him think to himself: "Hey... I wonder if ol' Jethro is in need of any help? Maybe I should head over that way and see if he's still at his house."

How did God intervene in such a situation? Assuming God actually did "answer" the man's (I'm calling him Jethro; does that reveal any bias?) prayers by exerting an influence on something to facilitate Jethro's chance at being saved.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

How did God intervene in such a situation? Assuming God actually did "answer" the man's (I'm calling him Jethro; does that reveal any bias?) prayers by exerting an influence on something to facilitate Jethro's chance at being saved.

By leaving enough love/care in the world that there are people to come-by to do the saving...

Which is problematic because one could question why God doesn't preserve more love/care; my answer is: it would eliminate who and what we are to be in a world with any more or less love/care. I think we are at the 'minimum-tolerable-care' God is willing to put up with. The value of criticism (and evil) is that it allows for greater appreciation (and good).

 

[sourceninja]

More like by not praying you are saying "fuck you, I don't need your help".[/QUOTE]

More like I"m not selfish enough to ask for god to meet my demands.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I'm gonna make this REAL simple.

I am more than willing if you're willing to listen. I've talked with you before, you're really not at all interested in hearing what I have to say. You're not.. we BOTH know that.

I call yall out, hit me up PM if you're really interested....

More can be accomplished one-on-one to keep others from detracting from the discussion...

Either you sincerely want to know, or this is a very lightly-masked attempt to publicly humiliate me. Coward? No.. just hate arguing.

I don't remember talking to you.

The thing is, if you are going to do a sing and dance number rather than stay on topic and discuss the direct questions posed to you then you better make it interesting or i'll forget all about it.

I don't care, i was clarifying so that it couldn't be misinterpreted since you entered the discussion then immediately started to sing and dance around the issues rather than responding.

Humiliating you? Do you think your beliefs are humiliating?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

More like by not praying you are saying "fuck you, I don't need your help".

More like I"m not selfish enough to ask for god to meet my demands.

Be honest: It's not God meeting your demands that's the problem... it's you meeting God's.

I don't care, i was clarifying so that it couldn't be misinterpreted since you entered the discussion then immediately started to sing and dance around the issues rather than responding.

True story

Humiliating you? Do you think your beliefs are humiliating?

It's hard when you have something you believe but no one has ever questioned it before; If we're lucky he'll go Atheist or Jewish, both fine world views.

 

[sourceninja]

Be honest: It's not God meeting your demands that's the problem... it's you meeting God's.

True story
It's hard when you have something you believe but no one has ever questioned it before; If we're lucky he'll go Atheist or Jewish, both fine world views.

I'm an atheist, but even as a child I saw prayer as the single most selfish thing a human can do (providing god exists). You are asking someone who knows everything to do something because you believe in him.

If he truly knows everything, prayer is not needed. Asking god for something is to me, the same as saying you know better as to how he should spend his time.

 

[Todd33]

If prayer (aka talking to yourself with your inner monologue) mattered, then McCain would have won. All those Christians praying for the evil Muslim from Kenya to lose would have turned the tides. It worked well huh?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

My point is, Gag, that your argument so crappy that a basic-cliché story answers it.

Try again, this time using some small part of your cognitive abilities.


More like by not praying you are saying "fuck you, I don't need your help".

ROFLMAO. No, your brain is so crappy that you think a basic cliche answers anything. What about people who prayed before helicopters and rowboats. Guess god wanted then to croak. And people who had heart attacks before modern medicine must have been on gods hit list. And if you want gods help, you better be caught in a fire near a fire department because if you're in the middle of nowhere it doesn't seem like he cares.

Pathetic, just pathetic.

But where you REALLY missed the point is not in whether or not help arrives, but in failing to deduce that I was talking about who and how people ask for help. It's not about where help comes from, it's about where even braindead biblethumpers expect it to come from. And the most ardent, devout, god-fearing religious whackjobs on earth still believe in the power of men over the power of god. Try to get this through your tiny little brain:

When people who believe in the power of prayer are in a medical emergency they call doctors/paramedics first and only then start to pray.

When a house is on fire the owners call 911 first, escape and eventually down the line start to pray.

When trapped in a car in a raging flood the driver whips out his cell phone and calls for rescue, he does not whip out his bible to ask god to send help.

The people who "claim" to believe in prayer DO NOT believe in prayer. They believe in the men in the trucks with the flashing lights on top. If you think prayer works throw away your phone and pray for god to send the fire department. See what that gets you.

 

[Ns1]

My friends are hardcore buddhists that "chant" (equivalent of praying)

Anytime something "good" happens, they blame it on the chanting.
Everytime something "bad" happens, they say chanting will fix it.

Well how do you know chanting didn't cause something bad to happen?

ROFLMAO. No, your brain is so crappy that you think a basic cliche answers anything. What about people who prayed before helicopters and rowboats. Guess god wanted then to croak. And people who had heart attacks before modern medicine must have been on gods hit list. And if you want gods help, you better be caught in a fire near a fire department because if you're in the middle of nowhere it doesn't seem like he cares.

Pathetic, just pathetic.

But where you REALLY missed the point is not in whether or not help arrives, but in failing to deduce that I was talking about who and how people ask for help. It's not about where help comes from, it's about where even braindead biblethumpers expect it to come from. And the most ardent, devout, god-fearing religious whackjobs on earth still believe in the power of men over the power of god. Try to get this through your tiny little brain:

When people who believe in the power of prayer are in a medical emergency they call doctors/paramedics first and only then start to pray.

When a house is on fire the owners call 911 first, escape and eventually down the line start to pray.

When trapped in a car in a raging flood the driver whips out his cell phone and calls for rescue, he does not whip out his bible to ask god to send help.

The people who "claim" to believe in prayer DO NOT believe in prayer. They believe in the men in the trucks with the flashing lights on top. If you think prayer works throw away your phone and pray for god to send the fire department. See what that gets you.

so much this. god didn't fucking save you, science fucking saved you.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

even as a child I saw prayer as the single most selfish thing a human can do (providing god exists). You are asking someone who knows everything to do something because you believe in him.

As I've presented, Prayer is about changing who you are and in that way it is a sacrificial, not selfish, thing. Indeed, selfish-serving prayer is said in the bible to go un-answered.

ROFLMAO. No, your brain is so crappy

Oh Gag.. personal insults?

I was observing that you were being soppy and now you call me stupid... I'll let the veracity of this 'counter argument' stand in testament to how deeply you've considered your position.

It points out that you were creating an argument that no-one was making.

people who believe in the power of prayer are in a medical emergency they call doctors/paramedics first and only then start to pray.

That's believing in the power of God to provide what is needed. Is it that hard to read a few posts before you start spouting off?

The people who "claim" to believe in prayer DO NOT believe in prayer.

They don't believe in God as a DeJin that answers wishes. You have fundamentally assumed that unless I believe in a genie I can't believe that prayer works.

Try addressing the argumentation presented instead of destroying the caricature you assume to be the reality you disagree with.

Anytime something "good" happens, they blame it on the chanting.
Everytime something "bad" happens, they say chanting will fix it.

Well how do you know chanting didn't cause something bad to happen?

Not a Buddhist, so I don't know. But Christians believe that all things work for the betterment of those who love the lord and I wouldn't discount your Buddhist friends from being part of that group.

 

[Nemesis 1]

40 mins and no replies? there is so much potential here...

***This place is for rent***

I make it easy for ya . I try to do it so you understand my poor grammer . All you ask comes from within . You are the Temple of Gods presents . With the faith of a mustard seed you can say to a mountain . Get up and move over there . It will be done. Look hard at ancient wonders and know they knew God better than do you.

 

[Jeff7]

My friends are hardcore buddhists that "chant" (equivalent of praying)

Anytime something "good" happens, they blame it on the chanting.
Everytime something "bad" happens, they say chanting will fix it.

Well how do you know chanting didn't cause something bad to happen?



so much this. god didn't fucking save you, science fucking saved you.

Simple solution: Define "chanting" as "An activity that can only effect positive change." Similarly, the definition of "God" has been tailored such that he can, by definition, not do anything that is itself evil.
This stuff is simple when you can redefine anything to mean anything.

 

[zinfamous]

I'd like to see that.


If you mean "us" as in "today" (modern era), then I would really like to see it.

:hmm:

so if bible says nothing about us "today (modern era), then why the fuck should anyone still read it?