Ford Fusion Commercial

[imported_Goo]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Now our beloved domestic auto manufacturers can't compete in the world - on design, quality or, most importantly, fuel economy.

which is why ford is europe's number 1 brand.

In Europe, you can get a Focus with a 2.5L turbo I5, making ~220HP/235lb-ft (performance specs converted from Limey for your convenience)

No wonder they're #1 over there - they're selling cars people want to buy.

- M4H

1- there is a MS3 which is on the same C1 w/ 2.3L turbo direct injection FWD.
or
2- there is a C40/V50 T5 AWD which is on the same C1 w/ 2.5L turbo I5.

 

[Tommouse]

Originally posted by: Aftermath

Great post.:thumbsup:

I don't really know what to say, but SOMEONE has to acknowledge that great post.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The Focus is at a different price point in Europe. For economy cars, they have micro machines and stuff.

Still, it's a car I'd want to buy. You also have to consider the taxes/cost of importing/etc inflating the European price.

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am sure there would be lines around the block to buy a $30K Ford Focus in America :roll: Contrary to your belief, most of the Ford cars sold in Europe are not Ford Focus ST.

There seems to be no shortage of people lining up "around the block" to buy a Mazdaspeed3. If they called it the Focus SVT and gave it the same engine, people would avoid it just because it's a Ford. Also, I don't recall ever stating that "most of the Ford cars sold in Europe" are the Focus ST, or any particular vehicle at all, douchenozzle.

- M4H

the profit margin wouldn't be very high. The focus in europe has a dizzying array of models configurations and options. That makes profit kind of a challenge here if things are not streamlined.

We have four body types and two engine options, although the upgraded engine is only available on one body type. Also, the Focus in Europe doesn't really have a dizzying array of models. It does have more engine options than we do though.

That is irrelevant though. The idea you can't have that many options here makes little sense. You want a vehicle with a lot of models? Buy a truck. I don't think there's a line of vehicles with more models/styles/engine options etc.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Strk

That is irrelevant though. The idea you can't have that many options here makes little sense. You want a vehicle with a lot of models? Buy a truck. I don't think there's a line of vehicles with more models/styles/engine options etc.

more options/models = more costs, and all the available goodies might not lead to enough sales to recoup the costs.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The Focus is at a different price point in Europe. For economy cars, they have micro machines and stuff.

Still, it's a car I'd want to buy. You also have to consider the taxes/cost of importing/etc inflating the European price.

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am sure there would be lines around the block to buy a $30K Ford Focus in America :roll: Contrary to your belief, most of the Ford cars sold in Europe are not Ford Focus ST.

There seems to be no shortage of people lining up "around the block" to buy a Mazdaspeed3. If they called it the Focus SVT and gave it the same engine, people would avoid it just because it's a Ford. Also, I don't recall ever stating that "most of the Ford cars sold in Europe" are the Focus ST, or any particular vehicle at all, douchenozzle.

- M4H

:roll: Again, nothing but moronic arguements and name calling. Mazdaspeed3 is a niche model with limited sales, just like Focus ST. You just like bashing Ford, probably because you hate that an American company is making products competitive with your Japanese favorites. Also, make up your mind. If people would avoid a rebadged Mazdaspeed3 because it's a Ford, why wouldn't they avoid a Focus ST for the same reason?

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: senseamp
Why is Toyota not offering AWD on the Camry or Honda on Accord?

honda has decided that AWD will be for acura.

toyota... i dunno... they have a transverse mount AWD system for the highlander/harrier/RX. the lack of AWD doesn't seem to be hurting sales much.

AWD hurts gas mileage and roll on acceleration anyways. On top of the extra cost.

Well, regardless of their reasoning, they are the ones who chose not to offer it on their models, so you can't blame Ford for making it available for the Fusion. If they want to field an AWD model to compare to the Fusion, they are more than welcome to.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: senseamp:roll: Again, nothing but moronic arguements and name calling.

So the fact that I'd buy a car like the Focus ST or MS3 is a "moronic argument?" Nice. When I want your opinion, I'll rattle my zipper.

Mazdaspeed3 is a niche model with limited sales, just like Focus ST.

They're having no trouble at all selling the ones they've produced.

You just like bashing Ford, probably because you hate that an American company is making products competitive with your Japanese favorites.

I bashed the Fusion, not Ford, for its noteable lack of a manual transmission in a car that they're claiming is "preferred by performance enthusiasts" - sure, if by "performance enthusiat" they mean "soccer mom who speeds." I also slammed the Camry for that, and it's probably a disgrace to the Fusion to be lumped in with that no-fun-mobile.

Also, make up your mind. If people would avoid a rebadged Mazdaspeed3 because it's a Ford, why wouldn't they avoid a Focus ST for the same reason?

And what's stopping them from rebadging the Focus ST? Sure, people might not buy the Ford Focus ST, but they might buy the "Falcon 2.5T" or some other name.

- M4H

 

[Linux23]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: senseamp:roll: Again, nothing but moronic arguements and name calling.

So the fact that I'd buy a car like the Focus ST or MS3 is a "moronic argument?" Nice. When I want your opinion, I'll rattle my zipper.

:shocked:

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The Focus is at a different price point in Europe. For economy cars, they have micro machines and stuff.

Still, it's a car I'd want to buy. You also have to consider the taxes/cost of importing/etc inflating the European price.

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am sure there would be lines around the block to buy a $30K Ford Focus in America :roll: Contrary to your belief, most of the Ford cars sold in Europe are not Ford Focus ST.

There seems to be no shortage of people lining up "around the block" to buy a Mazdaspeed3. If they called it the Focus SVT and gave it the same engine, people would avoid it just because it's a Ford. Also, I don't recall ever stating that "most of the Ford cars sold in Europe" are the Focus ST, or any particular vehicle at all, douchenozzle.

- M4H

the profit margin wouldn't be very high. The focus in europe has a dizzying array of models configurations and options. That makes profit kind of a challenge here if things are not streamlined.

We have four body types and two engine options, although the upgraded engine is only available on one body type. Also, the Focus in Europe doesn't really have a dizzying array of models. It does have more engine options than we do though.

That is irrelevant though. The idea you can't have that many options here makes little sense. You want a vehicle with a lot of models? Buy a truck. I don't think there's a line of vehicles with more models/styles/engine options etc.

Have you noticed that Ford made several statements that they have way too many trim levels, engine options, configs, options, etc. That cost money.
this includes more than body and engine options.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: senseamp:roll: Again, nothing but moronic arguements and name calling.

So the fact that I'd buy a car like the Focus ST or MS3 is a "moronic argument?" Nice. When I want your opinion, I'll rattle my zipper.

Mazdaspeed3 is a niche model with limited sales, just like Focus ST.

They're having no trouble at all selling the ones they've produced.

You just like bashing Ford, probably because you hate that an American company is making products competitive with your Japanese favorites.

I bashed the Fusion, not Ford, for its noteable lack of a manual transmission in a car that they're claiming is "preferred by performance enthusiasts" - sure, if by "performance enthusiat" they mean "soccer mom who speeds." I also slammed the Camry for that, and it's probably a disgrace to the Fusion to be lumped in with that no-fun-mobile.

Also, make up your mind. If people would avoid a rebadged Mazdaspeed3 because it's a Ford, why wouldn't they avoid a Focus ST for the same reason?

And what's stopping them from rebadging the Focus ST? Sure, people might not buy the Ford Focus ST, but they might buy the "Falcon 2.5T" or some other name.

- M4H

You continue with this dissappointingly lame line of thinking. :thumbsdown:
Go look up Mazdaspeed3 production, it's a niche product. 5000 units. Insignificant. I don't care what you call the Focus ST, people won't buy enough of them to make a bit of a difference at the price it needs to sell at to make money.
Just because a car has automatic transmission, doesn't mean it has to handle and look like a boat or not have AWD. Two different things entirely. Ford is saying it's preffered by performance enthusiasts over V6 Accord or V6 Camry sedans, neither of which have a manual either, and they don't even offer an AWD. Stop thread cr@pping with your insignificant Focus ST posts. This thread is not about that product, it's about mainstream sedans, not niche hatchbacks.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: senseamp

You continue with this dissappointingly lame line of thinking. :thumbsdown:
Go look up Mazdaspeed3 production, it's a niche product. 5000 units. Insignificant. I don't care what you call the Focus ST, people won't buy enough of them to make a bit of a difference at the price it needs to sell at to make money.
Just because a car has automatic transmission, doesn't mean it has to handle and look like a boat or not have AWD. Two different things entirely. Ford is saying it's preffered by performance enthusiasts over V6 Accord or V6 Camry sedans, neither of which have a manual either, and they don't even offer an AWD. Stop thread cr@pping with your insignificant Focus ST posts. This thread is not about that product, it's about mainstream sedans, not niche hatchbacks.

lol, the V6 accord sedan does come in a six speed.

I don't see why this debate is even still going, the test course was a closed, small course. Set up so drivers would not see that the fusion has no balls. 220 HP or whatever, down between 25 to 55 to camry/accord.

A manual i4 accord will probably be about as fast as an auto V6 fusion and the nice thing about that is the i4 accord handles better than the front heavy V6 accord.

 

[senseamp]

You obviously have not driven Fusion or Mazda6 next to Accord or Camry. There is more to performance than raw power. Once you realize that, you can enjoy the handling of a well sorted out chassis, well designed and tuned suspension, and the feel of a properly weighted steering. If you like driving a boat, by all means Camcord gets the job done.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: senseamp

You continue with this dissappointingly lame line of thinking. :thumbsdown:
Go look up Mazdaspeed3 production, it's a niche product. 5000 units. Insignificant. I don't care what you call the Focus ST, people won't buy enough of them to make a bit of a difference at the price it needs to sell at to make money.
Just because a car has automatic transmission, doesn't mean it has to handle and look like a boat or not have AWD. Two different things entirely. Ford is saying it's preffered by performance enthusiasts over V6 Accord or V6 Camry sedans, neither of which have a manual either, and they don't even offer an AWD. Stop thread cr@pping with your insignificant Focus ST posts. This thread is not about that product, it's about mainstream sedans, not niche hatchbacks.

lol, the V6 accord sedan does come in a six speed.

I don't see why this debate is even still going, the test course was a closed, small course. Set up so drivers would not see that the fusion has no balls. 220 HP or whatever, down between 25 to 55 to camry/accord.

A manual i4 accord will probably be about as fast as an auto V6 fusion and the nice thing about that is the i4 accord handles better than the front heavy V6 accord.

Because evidently we "import fanboys" can't accept the fact that our cars are obviously inferior. :roll:

Also, concurrence on the LOL. Funny how it never sunk in that I didn't bash the Accord for not having a six-speed, but I bashed the Fusion and the Camry. Hmm ...

- M4H

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: senseamp
You obviously have not driven Fusion or Mazda6 next to Accord or Camry. There is more to performance than raw power. Once you realize that, you can enjoy the handling of a well sorted out chassis, well designed and tuned suspension, and the feel of a properly weighted steering. If you like driving a boat, by all means Camcord gets the job done.

i've driven the V6 6 before, it's nothing special over the accord.

BTW, the V6 camry comes in an SE sport package.

besides, like you're some fine expert, you didn't even know the V6 accord sedan comes in manual. I doubt you have driven all the variants of all these cars so you're one to talk.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: senseamp
You obviously have not driven Fusion or Mazda6 next to Accord or Camry.

<Lex Luthor> WROOOOOOOONG </Lex Luthor>

There is more to performance than raw power.

Such as control, which is best obtained with a manual transmission.

Once you realize that, you can enjoy the handling of a well sorted out chassis, well designed and tuned suspension, and the feel of a properly weighted steering.

The Accord and the 6 give that in spades. Fusion is below them both.

If you like driving a boat, by all means Camry gets the job done.

I agree.

- M4H

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: senseamp
You obviously have not driven Fusion or Mazda6 next to Accord or Camry. There is more to performance than raw power. Once you realize that, you can enjoy the handling of a well sorted out chassis, well designed and tuned suspension, and the feel of a properly weighted steering. If you like driving a boat, by all means Camcord gets the job done.

i've driven the V6 6 before, it's nothing special over the accord.

Then you haven't driven it on the right roads.

BTW, the V6 camry comes in an SE sport package.

Camry SE is an oxymoron. You can put stiff shocks on an ancient suspension geometry, you'll just get rough ride, not sporty handling

besides, like you're some fine expert, you didn't even know the V6 accord sedan comes in manual. I doubt you have driven all the variants of all these cars so you're one to talk.

When I compared Accord to Mazda6, there was no manual Accord sedan. Not that it would have made any difference, since the Mazda6 suspension and steering just feels so much sportier. It's still the car to get for enthusiasts.

 

[senseamp]

Accord is slightly better handling than the Camry, but it' tuned too soft. Unlike Camry, at least there is hope to make it handle well with proper suspension tuning. Camry is a lost cause.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: senseamp
You obviously have not driven Fusion or Mazda6 next to Accord or Camry. There is more to performance than raw power. Once you realize that, you can enjoy the handling of a well sorted out chassis, well designed and tuned suspension, and the feel of a properly weighted steering. If you like driving a boat, by all means Camcord gets the job done.

i've driven the V6 6 before, it's nothing special over the accord.

Then you haven't driven it on the right roads.

BTW, the V6 camry comes in an SE sport package.

Camry SE is an oxymoron. You can put stiff shocks on an ancient suspension geometry, you'll just get rough ride, not sporty handling

besides, like you're some fine expert, you didn't even know the V6 accord sedan comes in manual. I doubt you have driven all the variants of all these cars so you're one to talk.

When I compared Accord to Mazda6, there was no manual Accord sedan. Not that it would have made any difference, since the Mazda6 suspension and steering just feels so much sportier. It's still the car to get for enthusiasts.

i drove the V6 6 at the mazdaspeed event so i would hope that mazda had a half decent course set up for it. The auto tranny in the 6 especially blows, it does not downshift sometimes when you floor it, which costed me a couple seconds on the timed course.

You obviously still know nothing about all the variants, the 6 speed accord has retuned suspension, bigger brakes/rotors, bigger/wider wheels, double stage intake manifold (single in auto v6), less restrictive intake (no resonator on 6 speed), front strut brace.

The camry's suspension setup does mildly blow with struts all around, but guess what, BMW's 3 series uses struts in the front and no one ever complains about that.

It'd be interesting to stack a comparo on a bigger course, ford fusion whatever,vs 6 speed accord vs V6 camry SE and see if the result is still the same.

 

[imported_Goo]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: senseamp

You continue with this dissappointingly lame line of thinking. :thumbsdown:
Go look up Mazdaspeed3 production, it's a niche product. 5000 units. Insignificant. I don't care what you call the Focus ST, people won't buy enough of them to make a bit of a difference at the price it needs to sell at to make money.
Just because a car has automatic transmission, doesn't mean it has to handle and look like a boat or not have AWD. Two different things entirely. Ford is saying it's preffered by performance enthusiasts over V6 Accord or V6 Camry sedans, neither of which have a manual either, and they don't even offer an AWD. Stop thread cr@pping with your insignificant Focus ST posts. This thread is not about that product, it's about mainstream sedans, not niche hatchbacks.

lol, the V6 accord sedan does come in a six speed.

I don't see why this debate is even still going, the test course was a closed, small course. Set up so drivers would not see that the fusion has no balls. 220 HP or whatever, down between 25 to 55 to camry/accord.
A manual i4 accord will probably be about as fast as an auto V6 fusion and the nice thing about that is the i4 accord handles better than the front heavy V6 accord.

You fogot to add that Camry's 268HP is from 3.5L V6 compare to accord and fusion 3.0L.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Aftermath
And the American consumer is still as guilt free and brilliant as ever. It's not like people buy trucks or SUV's in abundance, voting with their wallets for these companies to build more of them, making them their most crucial products for survivability. But then as soon as gas prices come up, the fickle consumes retaliate by selling their SUV for a compact, and then blaming the company that they bought it from for building it, not predicting the future, not building a 100mpg car, for not inventing a synthetic oil that's dirt cheap the manufacture in abundance, for Iraq, for terrorism, for poverty, for their tooth ache, for their obesity, for their marital problems.. And of course when gas prices come back down, they all quietly go back to their SUV's and trucks like nothing ever happened and they knew all along that everything would be okay.

Interesting perspective and I agree. Public opinion on the Big3's reliance on trucks is comical at best. They are partly to blame for the situation. When gas was under a dollar a gallon, it became trendy to buy huge trucks. Now Ford/GM/Chrysler get lambasted for building the trucks people were buying, as if it were their fault.

 

[The Sauce]

My understanding was that because of new EU restrictions on fuel economy, that US automakers would not be allowed to sell their cars in Europe (barring unfathomably drastic improvements) within the next 5-10 years. When California tried to impose much less drastic restrictions, GM sued the state of California. That would suggest to me that GM and other US mfgr's are unwilling to even try to make a car that could be sold in Europe, and are willing to sue US states that are trying more gently to nudge them in the right direction.

 

[animalia]

boycott ford! oh wait, I drive one.

 

[bigdog1218]

I have a question. Why do people still group Toyota and other Japanese cars with Honda. It seems that from top to bottom Honda is the only Japanese brand putting out solid cars. The rest are relying on marketing and brand loyalty, especially Toyota. Toyota has been putting out bad cars for years and relying on their name to sell it.

My mom has a 2003 V6 Camry that literally makes me cringe when I have to drive it. Everything from the engine to the transmission, the finish inside the car, the handling. It's all bad. It's a bad car. This whole notion that any car from Japan is a quality vehicle is long dead. A shift back to domestics will take time but will eventually happen.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: bigdog1218
I have a question. Why do people still group Toyota and other Japanese cars with Honda. It seems that from top to bottom Honda is the only Japanese brand putting out solid cars. The rest are relying on marketing and brand loyalty, especially Toyota. Toyota has been putting out bad cars for years and relying on their name to sell it.

My mom has a 2003 V6 Camry that literally makes me cringe when I have to drive it. Everything from the engine to the transmission, the finish inside the car, the handling. It's all bad. It's a bad car. This whole notion that any car from Japan is a quality vehicle is long dead. A shift back to domestics will take time but will eventually happen.

Finally someone with sense and logic. Your arguement would be correct that we will soon go back to domestics if it weren't for Ford's poor financial situation, idiot fanboys, and the morons over at consumer reports who people insist on taking seriously even after you tell them a million times they suck for car reviews.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: senseamp
Why is Toyota not offering AWD on the Camry or Honda on Accord?

honda has decided that AWD will be for acura.

toyota... i dunno... they have a transverse mount AWD system for the highlander/harrier/RX. the lack of AWD doesn't seem to be hurting sales much.

AWD hurts gas mileage and roll on acceleration anyways. On top of the extra cost.

Uhh except thousands disagree, Ford cannot make enough AWD Fusion's to keep up with the demand. Been that way since 2005.