Forget John Romero - XBox360 and PS3 ARE *Doomed*

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: apoppin
did you read the interview

or are you one of the *hate mailers* that read only the titles of threads?


why the heck would anyone want an expensive console "PC wannabe" when a cheaper, multi-purpose PC offers better gaming and *much* better graphics?
:Q

Yes I did,

I think my post count/member time is proof that I am not.

I just don't see this happening; the pc will always have a flaw that consoles currently do not, stability even when an idiot is using them. That was not an absolute statement, but some people want to be able to shake it out of the box and play within 10 minutes. No installation nothing.

If the PC parts drop that much the consoles would follow in price too. IF that happened that is.

Like I said in my original post, it could happen but I doubt it.

That being said I have both and like the PC better even though the video card cost more than the PS3....

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: MyStupidMouth

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Matt2
Romero should work on developing a PC only game that can revive PC gaming before he makes such bold statements.

In the past six months since getting my 360, I have gamed 99% on the 360.

again ... the future

next year with built-from-the-ground-up DX10 titles - even better than Alan Wake that are *recommended* for quad core

And Consoles will still be around like it or not.

first, thanks for taking that out of your sig

i am just the *messenger* ...

i am SO TIRED of seeing over-the-years, many "PC Gaming is Dead" threads
--and those got "hot"

i think it is nice to use someone that is somewhat respected - that uses a little logic - to show the *alternate* future of consoles

personally, i think you are right in many ways ... MS and Sony have invested Billions into the console ... it is not going away quickly - if ever

it just means the PC isnt' going to be a "pushover" .. nor lose more 'share' to the consoles

IF we really do get cheap HW *expect the resurgence of PC gaming*
-it will regain it's former place

probably alongside the consoles

... so maybe it is really win-win



my personal PoV

Ok, I'll agree to most of that statement. Although I think being equal to consoles is the best PC gaming is ever going to get and that is assuming that hardware gets so cheap that that you could build a badass gaming machine for $600 again.

Romero is assuming that the minuscule enthusiast market is going to revive PC gaming by itself. Hardware enthusiasts may benefit from cheap hardware, but what about the other 95% of the PC market that buy Dell, Alienware, Gateway and other prebuilt PCs? Those people are still going to be paying $4000 to get a decent gaming machine.

Developers are the ones losing the war for PC gaming. They know that the PC gaming arena has gone stagnant and dont want to spend time and valuable resources coding games that arent going to make them money. They know that they can make twice as much money developing games for consoles and dont have to waste their time coding the games so that Joe Schmoe can still play the game on his P4 1.4GHZ, 512mb RAM and FX5700. This is why we see ports from console to PC and not from PC to console.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: MyStupidMouth

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Matt2
Romero should work on developing a PC only game that can revive PC gaming before he makes such bold statements.

In the past six months since getting my 360, I have gamed 99% on the 360.

again ... the future

next year with built-from-the-ground-up DX10 titles - even better than Alan Wake that are *recommended* for quad core

And Consoles will still be around like it or not.

first, thanks for taking that out of your sig

i am just the *messenger* ...

i am SO TIRED of seeing over-the-years, many "PC Gaming is Dead" threads
--and those got "hot"

i think it is nice to use someone that is somewhat respected - that uses a little logic - to show the *alternate* future of consoles

personally, i think you are right in many ways ... MS and Sony have invested Billions into the console ... it is not going away quickly - if ever

it just means the PC isnt' going to be a "pushover" .. nor lose more 'share' to the consoles

IF we really do get cheap HW *expect the resurgence of PC gaming*
-it will regain it's former place

probably alongside the consoles

... so maybe it is really win-win



my personal PoV

Ok, I'll agree to most of that statement. Although I think being equal to consoles is the best PC gaming is ever going to get and that is assuming that hardware gets so cheap that that you could build a badass gaming machine for $600 again.

Romero is assuming that the minuscule enthusiast market is going to revive PC gaming by itself. Hardware enthusiasts may benefit from cheap hardware, but what about the other 95% of the PC market that buy Dell, Alienware, Gateway and other prebuilt PCs? Those people are still going to be paying $4000 to get a decent gaming machine.

Developers are the ones losing the war for PC gaming. They know that the PC gaming arena has gone stagnant and dont want to spend time and valuable resources coding games that arent going to make them money. They know that they can make twice as much money developing games for consoles and dont have to waste their time coding the games so that Joe Schmoe can still play the game on his P4 1.4GHZ, 512mb RAM and FX5700. This is why we see ports from console to PC and not from PC to console.

Romero is just taking an extreme PoV ... the one i originally presented

one other thing that will help is MS and Vista's DX10 ... they also have a stake in PC gaming and we will see a genuine *revolution* with multi Core and genuinely "amazing" gfx that will not be reproduceable on the consoles

porting from Console to PC will - IF the devs optimize for it - allow for still better gfx on the PC as they PC gamers WILL have the HW to easily run it - unlike 'Vegas'

and of course, there is Unreal 3 which allows for "equal opportunity" for nice cross-ports [again, if the devs/publishers see a 'market']

and the truly "fabulous" engines like CryTek's new one to run Crysis can only be "approximated" on the consoles ... and i doubt Alan Wake will look good compared to the PC ... just late this year and early next ... by the time DX10 games are mainstream, the consoles will be looking for their nextgen

couple that with cheap HW and we will see a resurgence of PC gaming

 

[imported_thefonz]

I think the problem lies more in consumer incompetence, that consoles will still dominate the gaming arena. For example, how many people actually keep up on what is happening in the computer industry or know how to assemble a computer, maybe 5% of the population. However, I'm sure that a large part of the population thinks the 360 and ps3 is the top of the line gaming experience. Game company's are going to play to the bigger market.

A lot of it comes down to marketing the platform as well, how often do you see dell commercials for XPS or any computer manufacturer advertising gaming capabilities? There is no uniform platform for computer gaming, there are thousand of different combinations of hardware for computers, while there are only 3 consoles which run comericals for games all the time.
Most people are looking to spend under $1000 for a computer, and what they end up with is intel integrated, which is absolute crap, and they don't end up getting any sort of gaming experience. Computer gaming may be superior in horsepower but only if you spend considerably more than consoles. Good gaming computer $1500, console gaming $500.

Unless $500 computers start coming out with the newest midrange in them (8600's) and the manufacturers start advertising computer gaming on the same scale as consoles, then computer gaming is going to continue to be a niche market.

 

[apoppin]

you are *right*... i already acknowledged that MS and Sony have a *lot* to say about their consoles' future

remember that both nvidia and ATi make a "living" off your 'niche' market
... it is not "small"

and it *does* look like the PC may have a bit of a renaissance


that would be excellent

 

[imported_thefonz]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you are *right*... i already acknowledged that MS and Sony have a *lot* to say about their consoles' future

but it *does* look like the PC may have a bit of a renaissance


that would be excellent

Agreed, that would be excellent as I love PC gaming :heart:

But I don't find this guys predictions realistic. Here's hoping I am wrong :beer:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: apoppin
you are *right*... i already acknowledged that MS and Sony have a *lot* to say about their consoles' future

but it *does* look like the PC may have a bit of a renaissance


that would be excellent

Agreed, that would be excellent as I love PC gaming :heart:

But I don't find this guys predictions realistic. Here's hoping I am wrong :beer:

agreed ... again


and i really believe JR is *intentionally controversial*
:Q

as i sometimes am

as least i wont' lose my job at the radio station
:roll:

:laugh:

 

[DefRef]

Even if these comments were coming from someone who wasn't:

* A total hair-farming tool

* A loser who said that his game would make everyone "his bitch" only to end up sinking not only his company, but Looking Glass Studios when Eidos had no money left after trying to keep Ion Storm afloat.

* A sleaze who forced his girlfriend to get bimbo-conversion surgery and pose for Playboy in order to attract attention to his POS game, setting the image of female gamers back about 20 years in the process.

...I'd be ill-inclined to agree with them.

Romero = HairBoi = ass clown.

Nuff said!!!

 

[imported_thefonz]

I read this article a couple of days ago, its about the future of gaming, not so much PC vs Console, but it is interesting. And It shows game sales for console vs pc sales, 11.2B for console vs 3.9B for PC in 2006, and there prediction for 2007 is 12.2B for console vs 3.7B for PC.
Here's a quote

"Selling software in a shrink-wrapped package just doesn't bring in enough money anymore.
The market for computer games is stagnating. Screen Digest predicts their sales to fall to $3.7bn this year - although they at least provide a stable stream of income, says Mr Florin."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6523565.stm

 

[tuteja1986]

They took his word out of context...

A better unbiased interview.
http://au.gamespot.com/features/6156985/index.html


Also what he says is sort of true as alot of developers believe the same as PS3 being doomed and not many developer believe XBOX 360 making profit for Microsoft anytime soon. If you call a console that loose billions of dollars in its entire cycle a sucesses than i think you a crash course in idealogy in business. The only console making that make any decent profit is the Wii , PS2 and DS. The rest have made huge looses.

 

[SickBeast]

There have been video games on PCs and consoles for the past 20 years or so. I don't expect that to change any time soon.

The Wii is innovative, but Nintendo really dropped the ball on the HDTV thing.

If I could have any one of the consoles, regardless of price, I would take the PS3 due to it's movie playback features, along with Grand Turismo and that in HD.

The consoles will always be able to be more efficient than a PC for less money, regardless of on-die GPUs and that. They will simply have custom on-die GPUs that pwn any PC on the market for less money.

 

[Gatt]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

I just don't see this happening; the pc will always have a flaw that consoles currently do not, stability even when an idiot is using them. That was not an absolute statement, but some people want to be able to shake it out of the box and play within 10 minutes. No installation nothing.

If the PC parts drop that much the consoles would follow in price too. IF that happened that is.

Like I said in my original post, it could happen but I doubt it.

That being said I have both and like the PC better even though the video card cost more than the PS3....

There are flaws in that line of thinking.

-Consoles cannot be PC parts, because if they are, then they are PC-Lite boxes, and the prediction is true. Consoles are dead. The only difference is that the "Consoles" have become closed-box, unupgradable, PC's for the average idiot.

-It's highly unlikely that Consoles will be able to continue to dissipate heat with the succeeding generations of tech. Little box, poor ventilation, not going to be able to do it. Especially since we're only a couple die-shrinks away from hitting the Atomic-wall, and they won't be able to die shrink processors to try to get cooler.

-The only way Consoles get cheaper when PC parts do is if the Consoles are PC's. Cell and PowerPC aren't getting cheaper with Intel/AMD's price cuts.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Gatt

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

I just don't see this happening; the pc will always have a flaw that consoles currently do not, stability even when an idiot is using them. That was not an absolute statement, but some people want to be able to shake it out of the box and play within 10 minutes. No installation nothing.

If the PC parts drop that much the consoles would follow in price too. IF that happened that is.

Like I said in my original post, it could happen but I doubt it.

That being said I have both and like the PC better even though the video card cost more than the PS3....

There are flaws in that line of thinking.

-Consoles cannot be PC parts, because if they are, then they are PC-Lite boxes, and the prediction is true. Consoles are dead. The only difference is that the "Consoles" have become closed-box, unupgradable, PC's for the average idiot.

-It's highly unlikely that Consoles will be able to continue to dissipate heat with the succeeding generations of tech. Little box, poor ventilation, not going to be able to do it. Especially since we're only a couple die-shrinks away from hitting the Atomic-wall, and they won't be able to die shrink processors to try to get cooler.

-The only way Consoles get cheaper when PC parts do is if the Consoles are PC's. Cell and PowerPC aren't getting cheaper with Intel/AMD's price cuts.

There are flaws in yours as well...

- the Wii is by no means a PC in any way shape or form, and it is certainly far from "dead"

- the cell processor is not very PC-esque

- the GPU in the Xbox 360 is quite different from most PC graphics cards

- console heat will be reduced with the new on-die GPUs

 

[Wreckage]

They said the same thing about the gamecube and it ended up in third last round. The xbox did not do well enough against the PS2 so they canned it early. I would not be calling this race over before it starts.

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
When John CARMACK says this, I might give it a little more weight.

Until then, I have one word: "Daikatana."

That is all.

- M4H

I think Cormack's thoughts on this matter were made clear when ID switched their lead development platform from PC to XBOX360.

You can talk about raw power, upgrade-ability and versatility till your blue in the face. But at the end of the day its about the games. And when pretty much all of the major game developers are now developing for the consoles 1st and the PC gets a half assed port IF were lucky its not a good sign. Is it worth it anymore to even have a bleeding edge gaming rig for a bunch of lame console ports and maybe, maybe 3 or 4 truly great PC games a year?

 

[Vinnybcfc]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
They said the same thing about the gamecube and it ended up in third last round. The xbox did not do well enough against the PS2 so they canned it early. I would not be calling this race over before it starts.

The Wii is quite different though and being targeted at other markets, in a year the situation will be more clear, the PS3 has bearly been out 6 months and only just in Europe.

PCs wont go anywhere - They are used for a lot more than games. So I cant see GPU makers kicking in the towel if PCs are still around.

Plenty of games on both PCs and Consoles

 

[Vinnybcfc]

Originally posted by: ZimZum
I think Cormack's thoughts on this matter were made clear when ID switched their lead development platform from PC to XBOX360.

You can talk about raw power, upgrade-ability and versatility till your blue in the face. But at the end of the day its about the games. And when pretty much all of the major game developers are now developing for the consoles 1st and the PC gets a half assed port IF were lucky its not a good sign. Is it worth it anymore to even have a bleeding edge gaming rig for a bunch of lame console ports and maybe, maybe 3 or 4 truly great PC games a year?

Yeah I can say the same about most consoles, very few decent games that interest me.

PC gaming isnt dying nor is Console gaming

 

[Sniper82]

360 is already a hit IMO and the Wii(of course) since I have yet to see them in stock at my local Wal-Mart. Yet I only look while I'm shopping and ain't trying to hunt one down. The PS3 is iffy but I think in a year or two it will start to really shine.

 

[apoppin]

you guys are completely missing Romero's point

... the console has *become* a PC ... with the exception of the Wii - which is a true "console" like the earlier consoles ... not some 'wannabe PC' that really isn't

the PC is *evolving* to become a truly wireless medium [as Gates envisioned] in every room ... the *center of entertainment* in the home

the Console *cannot* become that home entertainment system ... it is fated to sit next to the Big TV in the living room

otOH, With multicore poised revolutionize video HW -cheaply - it will make the PC do what consoles do right now ...

so where does that leave the consoles ... in say 5 years?

competing against a cheaper and wireless PC entertainment - in every room

it's a very possible future with the PC finally *winning*

 

[Sniper82]

I really don't see how PS3 is like a PC other than its multimedia features. It never has or never will bother me that Xbox and Xbox 360 are just like a PC. Its about the games and not having the need to upgrade it every new major game release. Of course I don't have any of the next gen consoles. Just waiting for some price drops or the new GTA(whichever comes first).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sniper82
I really don't see how PS3 is like a PC other than its multimedia features. It never has or never will bother me that Xbox and Xbox 360 are just like a PC. Its about the games and not having the need to upgrade it every new major game release. Of course I don't have any of the next gen consoles. Just waiting for some price drops or the new GTA(whichever comes first).

letsee what IS there besides multimedia and playing games?
... work

the whole point is that *when* the PC get cheap and faster and wireless - as they are evolving - the consoles become less 'important' ... and when the PC's gfx *also* blow-away the consoles ...

where does that leave the consoles ... in say 5-10 years ?

we are talking near-future

 

[imported_Questar]

letsee what IS there besides multimedia and playing games?
... work

I feel sorry for you. Your world is a very small one.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Sniper82
I really don't see how PS3 is like a PC other than its multimedia features. It never has or never will bother me that Xbox and Xbox 360 are just like a PC. Its about the games and not having the need to upgrade it every new major game release. Of course I don't have any of the next gen consoles. Just waiting for some price drops or the new GTA(whichever comes first).

Well you can run Folding@home on it like a PC.

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you guys are completely missing Romero's point

... the console has *become* a PC ... with the exception of the Wii - which is a true "console" like the earlier consoles ... not some 'wannabe PC' that really isn't

the PC is *evolving* to become a truly wireless medium [as Gates envisioned] in every room ... the *center of entertainment* in the home

the Console *cannot* become that home entertainment system ... it is fated to sit next to the Big TV in the living room

otOH, With multicore poised revolutionize video HW -cheaply - it will make the PC do what consoles do right now ...

so where does that leave the consoles ... in say 5 years?

competing against a cheaper and wireless PC entertainment - in every room

it's a very possible future with the PC finally *winning*

Perhaps on the day that I can buy a $400 PC that can play every game available without issues and last me 4-5 years. And not be obsolete by the end of its lifespan. But I just don't see that day coming very soon. Video cards alone still will be more expensive than entire consoles. With consumers balking at paying $500 for PS3s , where does that Leave a Gaming PC rig that will cost at least twice as much and have a useful lifespan 1/4th as long?

Originally posted by: Vinnybcfc

Originally posted by: ZimZum
I think Cormack's thoughts on this matter were made clear when ID switched their lead development platform from PC to XBOX360.

You can talk about raw power, upgrade-ability and versatility till your blue in the face. But at the end of the day its about the games. And when pretty much all of the major game developers are now developing for the consoles 1st and the PC gets a half assed port IF were lucky its not a good sign. Is it worth it anymore to even have a bleeding edge gaming rig for a bunch of lame console ports and maybe, maybe 3 or 4 truly great PC games a year?

Yeah I can say the same about most consoles, very few decent games that interest me.

PC gaming isnt dying nor is Console gaming

Head over to gametankings.com Out of the Top 20 rated games released in the passed few years, like 4 are PC titles the rest are console games. Plenty of great games still being put out. Never said PC gaming is dying but it has been relegated to a niche market and thats unfortunate.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: apoppin
did you read the interview

or are you one of the *hate mailers* that read only the titles of threads?


why the heck would anyone want an expensive console "PC wannabe" when a cheaper, multi-purpose PC offers better gaming and *much* better graphics?
:Q

Well for $600 I can have a Blu-ray player, 720P/1080P game machine, Linux box, Media player, etc. What computer can you build me for $600 with a legit OS, nice Vista gaming machine? LOL.