Forgive me for this question

[BD2003]

Either way, I think its really only a matter of time before linux is a real option. Theres a ton of factors coming together all at once.

1- The maturity of linux as a desktop OS itself, and some particularly well built distros like ubuntu.
2- The proliferation of low cost PCs/laptops that need to cut costs - including the OS.
3- Open source being legitimized by certain stellar apps - Firefox in particular.
4- The movement of a great deal of computing into the cloud/internet - makes the OS less relevant.
5- Widespread acceptance of OS X - pushes towards crossplatform compatibility for many apps, linux benefits indirectly.
6- The negative tone around MS's latest OS gives people a reason to search for alternatives.
7- The current shabby state of PC gaming - leaves less people bound to windows as a default OS.

Its really only a matter of time at this point. The snowball is already rolling.

 

[Nothinman]

a) Can users purchase a pre-configured box at the store?

Wal-Mart was selling them at one point but I think they've only available on-line now. But that's a chicken-egg thing, they won't be prevalent in brick and mortar stores until they're more popular.

b) Can required additional applications be obtained and easily installed?

Of course and IMO usually much easier than on Windows.

c) Can required additional hardware be obtained and easily installed?

Sure and again, usually easier than with Windows. Hell I've moved installations to completely new hardware and everything worked without me touching anything because Linux already has all of the modules for most hardware installed and udev loads them for whatever it finds on bootup.

d) Is support easily available for the OS, applications, hardware, and ISP?

Again that'll come with popularity.

e) Are backups of data easily made?
f) Are the OS and applications easy to learn and use?

Most people ignore backups or just burn discs manually which is just dragging/dropping files and most of the apps in Linux are no more complicated than a Windows app that does the same thing. And in a lot of cases these days they're the same thing completely, like Firefox.

g) Are the OS and applications "reasonably priced"?

Considering that most people don't consider Windows and most of it's apps reasonably priced I'd say that doesn't matter at all.

 

[soonerproud]

The question that should be asked in this day and time is not if "linux" is ready for the desktop. Are you, the end user ready for Linux?

Let me explain why I ask that question. Linux has already proved it is ready for use on the desktop for millions of people world wide. With Flash, Moonlight and other web technologies being ported to Linux, the platform you surf the web on is becoming less important. Everything is eventually moving to cloud computing, meaning that it will soon no longer be required to use Windows to access the same content. Unless there is something specific you have to have windows for, like a work program or games, all nixes will do the same exact job easily.

Now you have to ask yourself if you are ready to throw out everything you know about Windows and OSX and start over from scratch. Things under nix are just as easy to do (Some cases easier) as under Windows, once you get around the learning curve. Are you willing to invest the time to learn how to do things the nix way? If not, then you are not ready for Linux as your desktop.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: soonerproud
The question that should be asked in this day and time is not if "linux" is ready for the desktop. Are you, the end user ready for Linux?

Let me explain why I ask that question. Linux has already proved it is ready for use on the desktop for millions of people world wide. With Flash, Moonlight and other web technologies being ported to Linux, the platform you surf the web on is becoming less important. Everything is eventually moving to cloud computing, meaning that it will soon no longer be required to use Windows to access the same content. Unless there is something specific you have to have windows for, like a work program or games, all nixes will do the same exact job easily.

Now you have to ask yourself if you are ready to throw out everything you know about Windows and OSX and start over from scratch. Things under nix are just as easy to do (Some cases easier) as under Windows, once you get around the learning curve. Are you willing to invest the time to learn how to do things the nix way? If not, then you are not ready for Linux as your desktop.

So you want me to throw out everything I know about OS X? Like the fact that it is Unix? Does that count as information that I should throw out? Forgive my snideness, but people seem to forget that quite often. Sure, the UI is shiny, and lickable, and it does not have the same feel as LInux (which I like) but it is Unix, through and through.

Anyway, I do not know if I am ready for Linux (the way that sounds is like proselytizing "Are you ready for Jesus in your life?") all I wanted to know is if I am simply that one guy that always has problems with it, regardless of how i approach it (curiosity, sincere want of using it, grudgingly for a project, what have you) I always end up with the same conclusion, which is that I do not like it.

However, as I grow older, I start to have an interest in reducing the number of apps on my system that are there via... less reputable means, if you catch my drift, and so linux, being free, and supporting/hosting/whatevering a bevy of free alternative software seems appealing, especially now that I mostly just use my desktop for media hosting.

Since I have 0 interest in installing Vista on my desktop (although I have a legal copy of Vista Business laying around), and I use it less and less for games, I thought I would give Linux another spin since I keep hearing generally good things about it.

So, really, sure, why not, I am ready to accept Jes... i mean Linux.

 

[degibson]

Originally posted by: TheStu
So, really, sure, why not, I am ready to accept Jes... i mean Linux.

Amen

Edit: Stupid smilicons...

 

[lucky9]

If you're serious about taking distro recommendations I'll mention SimplyMEPIS (or just Mepis) 7.0 as a viable alternative operating system. Debian-based and a predecessor to Ubuntu in terms of time on the market. It doesn't have the PR of Canonical and/or Mark Shuttleworth behind it but it's a great KDE Desktop distribution. Runs as a LiveCD so you find out if things work without installing. Good support at mepislovers.org if there are problems.

I agree with most here that Linux is immanently usable for an operating system. If manufacturers weren't myoptic about supporting Windows.....at that Linux is only slightly behind the latest and greatest. IE: it takes a few weeks for Linux to support the latest chipset from Intel....... And runs circles around any Windows I'm aware of. Still no virus threat.....still no malware to speak of......still free......still comes with ALL the software you probably need for 95% of what people do with a computer.......still, well you get the idea.

At to what disks are called, really.....system disk A is sda, first partition is sda,1 second is sda,2 and so on. sdb is the same and is the second disk. Floppy is fd0. CD/DVD are system cd 0 for the first one and that's scd,0 then there is scd,1 if you have a second CD/DVD in the system. This is hard?

I gave up on Windows with XP and software that ran on it letting me down (again) almost 5 years ago. At that time I needed something to use temporarily a few weeks at most. So I had the advantage of not at that time having the ability to go back to Windows if I got uncomfortable.....I never did. I have two legal WindowsXP disks that are still gathering dust here. I did just 2 or 3 weeks ago install one of them as a virtual machine on my install of Linux. Took me four hours to install along with SP2 (on disk). And I updated it (took most of an hour!) totally with all security updates. All this cost several hundred dollars a year to maintain. With what ancillary software costs. They still charge for a CD/DVD burning software don't they? The costs to update from Windows98SE to Windows XP was just enormous. I should want to shell out for Vista in a similar way?
Last install of Mepis took 10 or 12 minutes and another half hour to update. And was essentially free. As was all the software that was wanted or needed to use the computer for whatever I wanted to use it for. No restrictions from Microsoft or anyone else. And it's far more customizable than ANY Microsoft product.

I rest whatever case I have. Have a nice day.


PS: I've tried Ubuntu and find it far too restrictive in my ability to customize or just use. Look over their forums for a hint.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: TheStu
So you want me to throw out everything I know about OS X? Like the fact that it is Unix? Does that count as information that I should throw out? Forgive my snideness, but people seem to forget that quite often. Sure, the UI is shiny, and lickable, and it does not have the same feel as LInux (which I like) but it is Unix, through and through.

No, you don't have to throw out everything you know about OSX. I am just saying you are going to have to be willing to adjust to the differences between OSX and Linux.

Linux is not Unix. It may be Unix like in a lot of ways, but Linux is not Unix. There are differences between the two systems, so having Unix knowledge does not make one an automatic expert on Linux.

Originally posted by: TheStu
Anyway, I do not know if I am ready for Linux (the way that sounds is like proselytizing "Are you ready for Jesus in your life?") all I wanted to know is if I am simply that one guy that always has problems with it, regardless of how i approach it (curiosity, sincere want of using it, grudgingly for a project, what have you) I always end up with the same conclusion, which is that I do not like it.

I don't proselytize any operating system over another. Use what you want to use, just don't accuse some one of proselytizing when you were the one that asked the question if it was ready. I reworded your question to show you may not be ready to make the jump. Linux is certainly ready for some people's desktops. The question is are you ready to make that jump?

Originally posted by: TheStu
However, as I grow older, I start to have an interest in reducing the number of apps on my system that are there via... less reputable means, if you catch my drift, and so linux, being free, and supporting/hosting/whatevering a bevy of free alternative software seems appealing, especially now that I mostly just use my desktop for media hosting.

Understandable. However you don't have to install Linux to have free legitimate apps. A large number of apps available for Linux are also available for OSX and Windows. Gimp, Pidgin, Open Office, FireFox and a ton more GPL and Open Source software is available for free.

Originally posted by: TheStu
Since I have 0 interest in installing Vista on my desktop (although I have a legal copy of Vista Business laying around), and I use it less and less for games, I thought I would give Linux another spin since I keep hearing generally good things about it.

So, really, sure, why not, I am ready to accept Jes... i mean Linux.

Honestly, if you are avoiding Vista because of some minor hiccups you may encounter then you will be disappointed with Linux. I guarantee that you, as a first time user are going to have major issues that need resolving during the switch. Even the so called easy distros are going to have some major speed bumps along the way until you have gained enough knowledge to overcome them on your own. Be ready to spend hours reading how-to's, googling, searching forums and wikis.

Please do yourself a favor and try your copy of Vista Business first. Spend a few weeks with it and some free software alternatives to proprietary software. I guarantee you will find Vista is not the monster it is made out to be in the press and on the blogosphere.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: soonerproud
No, you don't have to throw out everything you know about OSX. I never said or implied such a thing. I am just saying you are going to have to be willing to adjust to the differences between OSX and Linux.

Yes, actually, you did. You said;

Now you have to ask yourself if you are ready to throw out everything you know about Windows and OSX and start over from scratch.

Linux is not Unix. It may be Unix like in a lot of ways, but Linux is not Unix. There are differences between the two systems because of this, so having Unix knowledge does not make one an automatic expert on Linux.

And I never implied or said that having Unix knowledge would make me an instant expert on Linux, I merely was reminding you of the fact that OS X is Unix.

I don't proselytize any operating system over another. Use what you want to use, just don't accuse some one of proselytizing when you were the one that asked the question if it was ready. I reworded your question to show you may not be ready to make the jump. Linux is certainly ready for some peoples desktops. The question is are you ready to make that jump?

Well, the phrasing of my question is certainly ambiguous, but it is the same way I have seen it phrased in the past, as well as seeing other things like "The Year of the Linux Desktop" and whatnot. I was just phrasing it that way based on what I have seen.

Understandable. However you don't have to install Linux to have free legitimate apps. A large number of apps available for Linux are also available for OSX and Windows. Gimp, Pidgin, Open Office, FireFox and a ton more GPL and Open Source software is available for free.

All of which I know about. The GIMP on OS X is an absolute pain to use due to its use of X11, but most all other X11 apps are annoying as well. Such as Matlab, that was a treat to try and install. Pidgin isn't available for OS X, instead it is Adium, which to my understanding, forked off of Gaim, and then remerge with it to make Pidgin. So, Pidgin's ancestor, Adium, is available on OS X, and I use it, mostly because it has tabbed conversations.

Honestly, if you are avoiding Vista because of some minor hiccups you may encounter then you will be disappointed with Linux. I guarantee that you, as a first time user are going to have major issues that need resolving during the switch. Even the so called easy distros are going to have some major speed bumps along the way until you have gained enough knowledge to overcome them on your own. Be ready to spend hours reading how-to's, googling, searching forums and wikis.

Please do yourself a favor and try your copy of Vista Business first. Spend a few weeks with it and some free software alternatives to proprietary software. I guarantee you will find Vista is not the monster it is made out to be in the press and on the blogosphere.

I had that copy of Vista installed on my MacBook for about 2-3 months before I uninstalled it because I wasn't using it that often, I was not very fond of the changes they made to the OS just because they could, and I needed the 30GB of space I had given it.

I don't mind Vista, the reason I don't want to install it on my desktop is because I already have XP on there, setup the way I need it (mainly meaning I have all the drivers installed, AV, all the updates, and sharing enabled) and my desktop is not the fastest system around. I already have trouble gaming on it as it is, mostly I believe due to the motherboard in the system, rather than anything else. So, any additional overhead that Vista would bring to the table is unwanted.

If I had a new desktop, I would install Vista, it is the future, it is improved (especially in terms of security) and with the exception of those weird changes, and the decreased transfer rates that I have read about, it is all around better.

Don't assume that I don't like Vista because of hype, much like I don't assume that you like Linux because you enjoy naughty giraffe pictures.

 

[Brazen]

Ubuntu has been on my laptop for over a year now. so for me, linux has been "ready" for a while. But Ubuntu is indeed improving my leaps and bounds with every release, and for that I very grateful. It really is more a question of "are YOU ready for linux?" You might try reading this Linux Beginner FAQ to fill in any blank spots. I'll worn you though, I wrote it, and it's been several months since I looked it over, let alone updated it, but the information is pretty generic and should be timeless.

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: Brazen
Ubuntu has been on my laptop for over a year now. so for me, linux has been "ready" for a while. But Ubuntu is indeed improving my leaps and bounds with every release, and for that I very grateful. It really is more a question of "are YOU ready for linux?" You might try reading this Linux Beginner FAQ to fill in any blank spots. I'll worn you though, I wrote it, and it's been several months since I looked it over, let alone updated it, but the information is pretty generic and should be timeless.

No I am not ready for Linux even I bought Suse 7.2 but never install on my computer and now I got Ubuntu and I did not even install yet. Is there something wrong with me?

 

[lucky9]

Originally posted by: Rottie

Originally posted by: Brazen
Ubuntu has been on my laptop for over a year now. so for me, linux has been "ready" for a while. But Ubuntu is indeed improving my leaps and bounds with every release, and for that I very grateful. It really is more a question of "are YOU ready for linux?" You might try reading this Linux Beginner FAQ to fill in any blank spots. I'll worn you though, I wrote it, and it's been several months since I looked it over, let alone updated it, but the information is pretty generic and should be timeless.

No I am not ready for Linux even I bought Suse 7.2 but never install on my computer and now I got Ubuntu and I did not even install yet. Is there something wrong with me?

I wouldn't say 'not ready', but I would say 'out of your comfort zone'. If you're a gamer you just about have to have a recent version of Windows.

I used to spend several hundred dollars a year for updates/upgrades of non-operating system software. And of course I never really owned any of it including the OS. Plus they could tell me what I could and could not do with my computer......
I will not more than mention virus, malware, etc. threats. I also got real tired of badly behaved software being able to bring down the entire operating system....... The incredible affront of the BSOD.

But also, as for me, I wouldn't go online with anything but a 'nix-based OS.

Nooooo! I've been 'ready' for four plus years......since the last time Windows let me down.

 

[Doomer]

I've been watching and trying Linux from the beginning and have come to the conclusion that Microsoft is secretly behind it. There is simply no other way to explain it utter and total lack of usability other than it's a tool to keep Windows dominate in the marketplace.

USABILITY IS WHAT'S IT'S ALL ABOUT, LINUX PEOPLE !!!!!

The above is for just in case I'm wrong about MS being behind it. Well, if MS is not behind it, then space aliens would be my second guess

 

[Nothinman]

USABILITY IS WHAT'S IT'S ALL ABOUT, LINUX PEOPLE !!!!!

And in general I find Linux a lot more usable than Linux in most aspects...

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

USABILITY IS WHAT'S IT'S ALL ABOUT, LINUX PEOPLE !!!!!

And in general I find Linux a lot more usable than Linux in most aspects...

Really? Do tell

 

[Nothinman]

Really? Do tell

I have multiple times on this forum. The fact that 99% of all the available drivers are included with the kernel alone is huge since I can swap out virtually anything in my machine and have it "just work" on the next bootup. Same thing with drives because using LVM, drive labels, etc to address my filesystems means that no matter what order my drives appear to the system they'll always be properly found and the lack of drive letters means all of my paths are always the same. Then there's the package management which means that virtually all of my apps are installed, removed and updated in the same place.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

USABILITY IS WHAT'S IT'S ALL ABOUT, LINUX PEOPLE !!!!!

And in general I find Linux a lot more usable than Linux in most aspects...

That was what Stash was talking about. Not how you feel that Linux is more usable than (something I would assume to be other than Linux), but rather that you said that Linux is more usable than Linux

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: TheStu

Originally posted by: Nothinman

USABILITY IS WHAT'S IT'S ALL ABOUT, LINUX PEOPLE !!!!!

And in general I find Linux a lot more usable than Linux in most aspects...

That was what Stash was talking about. Not how you feel that Linux is more usable than (something I would assume to be other than Linux), but rather that you said that Linux is more usable than Linux

Yep. Lighten up dude

 

[Nothinman]

heh sorry, posting from work and not proofreading apparently =)

Although my statement could be considered correct since I could be talking about 2 different, unnamed distributions. =)

 

[lucky9]

Concerning usability. What do you use a computer for? Unless it's some specialized software or gaming I have a for instance.

I was given a P4-based computer (1500MHz) with 128MB RAM. I added 512MB, and since I didn't want to donate a copy of Windows, the OS needed to be free. That limits choices a lot. The system was going to be used by a 57 year old woman who used an Apple at work (grade school librarian). She uses it for surfing and email with some Yahoo! game playing.
That system was running SimplyMEPIS 6.5 for over a year without problems or supervision. She lost a hard disk during a thunderstorm (she was using the computer without a UPS) two weeks ago. I had a spare 80gig HD and she was back up and running SimplyMEPIS 7.0 in about a half an hour. With updates. With great software for burning and almost anything else she wants to do....at essentially no cost.
Of course she could care less about the inner workings of an operating system. She's a User.
I don't expect to have anymore calls for that unit than I have in the past.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: lucky9
Concerning usability. What do you use a computer for? Unless it's some specialized software or gaming I have a for instance.

I was given a P4-based computer (1500MHz) with 128MB RAM. I added 512MB, and since I didn't want to donate a copy of Windows, the OS needed to be free. That limits choices a lot. The system was going to be used by a 57 year old woman who used an Apple at work (grade school librarian). She uses it for surfing and email with some Yahoo! game playing.
That system was running SimplyMEPIS 6.5 for over a year without problems or supervision. She lost a hard disk during a thunderstorm (she was using the computer without a UPS) two weeks ago. I had a spare 80gig HD and she was back up and running SimplyMEPIS 7.0 in about a half an hour. With updates. With great software for burning and almost anything else she wants to do....at essentially no cost.
Of course she could care less about the inner workings of an operating system. She's a User.
I don't expect to have anymore calls for that unit than I have in the past.

Well, I would use it for games, but since getting my new monitor, I can't really game on it anymore, and so mostly at this point I am really only using it for media hosting and serving. So, the main important thing is that if I were to drop linux on there, it would have to be able to read HFS+ and NTFS since that is the format that my drives are in and I have no desire to find a way to copy off the data somewhere, and then copy it all back in a different format.

 

[lucky9]

Linux can read HFS+ and NTFS file systems. I personally don't know if you need to install the ability for the Apple FS but NTFS ships with most that I know of, and I'd bet that HFS+ is there also. Just that I don't have a need for it.

A quick google shows that you have to use the Apple disk manager software to switch HSF+ to HSF (non-journaled). See 28,29
http://forum.insanelymac.com/i...ic=3020&st=20&start=20
for first hand info. This may be dated of course. But my understanding is that Linux will just about read any FS.

One additional advantage is that speed usually improves doing the same things with Linux.

 

[TheStu]

Well, I am probably going to take my largest drive over to my friend to have him copy the data off of it, and then copy it back over after formatting the drive NTFS since it is currently HFS+ and MacDrive is giving me weird fits when sharing files.

I may burn off an Ubuntu disk in the coming days and give it another whirl... maybe it will work better this time.