FORGIVE ME -- New Gaming Rig, Intel 7700k v Intel 8700k v Ryzen 1600x

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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,787
4,771
136
You are probably right. First, I should update my monitor, as it is now a 3440x1440 100Hz curved monitor, but regardless, I am looking to improve the number of threads I have and memory speed. So going from 4/8 to 6/12 will help in games like Ashes of the Singularity, and 32GB of memory can be helpful for games where I use ENB to help out memory utilization for some games. But for the most part, things will be exactly the same. Finally, I am looking for aesthetic upgrades as well. So instead of a lift and shift into a new case, I am looking at new CPUs and memory. I could probably convince my wife that a new video card is needed too, since she is always pushing me to get the best of the best. That said, this freedom to get whatever I want whenever I want it, enables me to wait on that until next year. Sounds crazy, but it is kinda liberating.



As much tempered glass as I can get. I like the looks of the Corsair 570X, but not thrilled with their PSU shroud not going all the way across the bottom. I am also considering the Phanteks P400 and the ThermalTake View 31 TG RGB.
You're a lucky guy. 8700K with the works and Volta next year should be your best option. You certainly have the budget for that. All the best for your new build.
 

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
You're a lucky guy. 8700K with the works and Volta next year should be your best option. You certainly have the budget for that. All the best for your new build.

Haha yes, I am a lucky man. Though when her birthday rolls around, she gets whatever she wants and I don't say a single thing
 

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
Siiiiighhh... I suppose I should have known I would not be able to get an 8700k on launch. May have to wait until November
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,429
7,054
136
Look I went with AMD Ryzen because I game and do a ton of photoshop/ lightroom works and when you export like 1000+ pictures from raw to jpg every other day, the time saved is major.

Going from a i3 3470 (4C/4T) to a R5 (6C/6T) gave me 30-35% boost in cpu framerates (since I used the same video card). Then I upgraded my video card and saw a massive improvement.

Since you have a good cpu already, your gains might be lower than mine.

So what's your point for upgrading?

1. you want 2 gaming pc's next to the other?
2. you want to pass down your current pc to your significant other/ kids?
3. money to burn?

Because it doesn't seem like spending $2500 for a 20% cpu upgrade is very worth it.

I spent the following:

CPU: $220
Memory: $205
Motherboard: $145
Power Supply: $110
Case: $90
SSD: $90
Heatsink: $40

So for $900 I got a 30-35% upgrade. I wasn't exactly overjoyed with it from a gaming point of view but with photoshop/ lightroom it was a worthwhile improvement.. easily a 200% improvement.

P.S. One of the major advantages of AMD is they don't require you to buy a new motherboard every cycle. That is 1 reason I went with them like say in 4 years I want to upgrade to a 5ghz 7nm cpu.. I can just drop one in there without worrying that I need new RAM and a new motherboard. But then again I don't have money to burn.
 
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GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
Look I went with AMD Ryzen because I game and do a ton of photoshop/ lightroom works and when you export like 1000+ pictures from raw to jpg every other day, the time saved is major.

Going from a i3 3470 (4C/4T) to a R5 (6C/6T) gave me 30-35% boost in cpu framerates (since I used the same video card). Then I upgraded my video card and saw a massive improvement.

Since you have a good cpu already, your gains might be lower than mine.

So what's your point for upgrading?

1. you want 2 gaming pc's next to the other?
2. you want to pass down your current pc to your significant other/ kids?
3. money to burn?

Because it doesn't seem like spending $2500 for a 20% cpu upgrade is very worth it.

I spent the following:

CPU: $220
Memory: $205
Motherboard: $145
Power Supply: $110
Case: $90
SSD: $90
Heatsink: $40

So for $900 I got a 30-35% upgrade. I wasn't exactly overjoyed with it from a gaming point of view but with photoshop/ lightroom it was a worthwhile improvement.. easily a 200% improvement.

P.S. One of the major advantages of AMD is they don't require you to buy a new motherboard every cycle. That is 1 reason I went with them like say in 4 years I want to upgrade to a 5ghz 7nm cpu.. I can just drop one in there without worrying that I need new RAM and a new motherboard. But then again I don't have money to burn.

Fair points...
  1. I am planning on giving my current PC to my daughter.
  2. Building PCs is a hobby of mine, so yes, I do budget a certain amount of money each year for upgrading or flat out building a new PC.
  3. I don't do photo or video editing, however. The biggest use of my desktop PC is video gaming. The 8700K has been compared to the 1800X and shown to be better at games by a smidge... If you look at #3 below, they actually say the best gaming proc is the i5-8400
    1. http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-1800X/3937vs3916 (faster than an 1800x)
    2. https://youtu.be/s0O3MxolJ7s?t=5m00s
    3. https://youtu.be/EJOnwF8mgXc?t=5m35s (or, skip to the part that discusses the best value: https://youtu.be/EJOnwF8mgXc?t=7m53s)
    4. https://youtu.be/bPvgoQ64E08?t=7m25s
  4. I do have my budget available to me so I am set to make my purchases
I would consider the Ryzen but I just don't need the CPU as much when I am not gaming. Games are evolving now to make good use of extra cores/threads. So that's why I am thinking about the 8700K. Though it does seem strange that the 8400 proc, which is not unlocked, does almsot as well as the 8700K (when it was not overclocked of course).
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,429
7,054
136
Well if you've got money to spend, why not wait for a core i9 8C/16T that'll be out earlier next year. And yes it will need a new chipset.. Z390.

If you don't wait, you'll be wondering what the improvements are over a 6C/12T cpu you bought last october.

P.S. I'm sorta in the same boat as you. My wife wants a new comp and I'm debating giving her mine and upgrading to a 8700k vs building her a ryzen 3. And I'm leaning towards the ryzen 3 for her.
 

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
Well if you've got money to spend, why not wait for a core i9 8C/16T that'll be out earlier next year. And yes it will need a new chipset.. Z390.

If you don't wait, you'll be wondering what the improvements are over a 6C/12T cpu you bought last october.

P.S. I'm sorta in the same boat as you. My wife wants a new comp and I'm debating giving her mine and upgrading to a 8700k vs building her a ryzen 3. And I'm leaning towards the ryzen 3 for her.

Yes, the 8C/16T i9 is looking pretty, but with that logic, I could just keep waiting forever, lol.

Also, this video really nails it when showing how the 8700K is the new king of gaming. He does an excellent job comparing many processors including a 1700X toward the last 1/3rd of the video:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70

He does an excellent job showing that overclocking the 8700K does nothing if you don't increase memory bandwith:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70?t=10m31s
and here:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70?t=11m

He even throws in my 4790K processor:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70?t=12m30s

Maybe I should just go with the 8700 then?
 
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IRobot23

Senior member
Jul 3, 2017
601
183
76
Yes, the 8C/16T i9 is looking pretty, but with that logic, I could just keep waiting forever, lol.

Also, this video really nails it when showing how the 8700K is the new king of gaming. He does an excellent job comparing many processors including a 1700X toward the last 1/3rd of the video:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70

He does an excellent job showing that overclocking the 8700K does nothing if you don't increase memory bandwith:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70?t=10m31s
and here:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70?t=11m

He even throws in my 4790K processor:
https://youtu.be/CZIVaGcax70?t=12m30s

Maybe I should just go with the 8700 then?

  1. But but but, he didn't tell you that 7nm looks extremely nice for AMD. If you have i7 4790K and you do not need more performance, then wait.
  2. His AOTs benchmarks looks different, ryzen with fast memory can get above 50fps, even about 53fps in CPU stress test.
Here is what I do not "understand", why is i7 7800X slower than i7 8700K in games that memory bandwidth is main problem? How can dual channel beat quad channel in AOTS?
 

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
Apparently, dual vs quad channel doesn't matter as much for gaming, and it is the extra core/threads that matter for a game like AotS.
 

slashy16

Member
Mar 24, 2017
151
59
71
8700K all the way. Don't settle for poor ST performance of Ryzen. Nearly every task you will do on your pc will use 1-2 cores. Why settle for 2012ish performance when you can get a six-core 5ghz beast,
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,165
136
8700K all the way. Don't settle for poor ST performance of Ryzen. Nearly every task you will do on your pc will use 1-2 cores. Why settle for 2012ish performance when you can get a six-core 5ghz beast,

While I agree with the recommendation, the way you try to frame Ryzen's performance is comical at best.

The 8700k is the best gaming chip available. Or at least it would be available, if anyone weren't on backorder. Try to avoid the temptation of buying over MSPR, OP.

You will probably have to wait until November.

If you must have AMD, I would wait for Pinnacle Ridge at this point, though AMD is cutting prices on their CPUs which is nice. Either way you will do quite well. It's hard to go wrong buying anything released after March 2017.
 
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epsilon84

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2010
1,142
927
136
While I agree with the recommendation, the way you try to frame Ryzen's performance is comical at best.

The 8700k is the best gaming chip available. Or at least it would be available, if anyone weren't on backorder. Try to avoid the temptation of buying over MSPR, OP.

You will probably have to wait until November.

If you must have AMD, I would wait for Pinnacle Ridge at this point, though AMD is cutting prices on their CPUs which is nice. Either way you will do quite well. It's hard to go wrong buying anything released after March 2017.

I agree the wording was inflammatory, but the actual statement is not that far from the truth, at least where gaming performance is concerned: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2867-intel-i7-2600k-2017-benchmark-vs-7700k-1700-more/page-3

The overclocked 2600K more or less matches the overclocked Ryzen 7s with the exception of Total War.

This isn't a dig at AMD, even Intel's 5 year newer 7700K is only about 20% faster overall in games. Sandy Bridge has proven to be remarkably 'future proof'.
 

legcramp

Golden Member
May 31, 2005
1,671
113
116
I see no reason for the OP to get anything but the 8700K system when it becomes available again. He can afford it with that budget for his pure gaming system. The 8700K pretty much does it all with the multi-core and top-tier IPC along with fantastic overclocking. I would loveeeee to get a Ryzen system since I am in the same boat as the OP and support AMD (almost did over the weekend at Microcenter) but I am not settling with the sub-par gaming performance especially when pairing with my 144hz monitor.

The Ryzen 1600 + motherboard for under $250 out-the-door at Microcenter is a fantastic deal though.. but then the i5 8400 + motherboard for a little more is fantastic too.... so many choices.... Thanks AMD

And the performance increase from my current 1366 6-core Xeon to the 8700K is going to be insano XD
 

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
I have pre-ordered an 8700K for $379. Could have had it for $370 but I took too long. But yes, everything I see says the 8700K is *THE* gaming processor.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,165
136
I agree the wording was inflammatory

Then don't attempt to validate his claims. Not everyone getting a machine in 2012 was using a 5 GHz 2600k, for example. There's a reason why people held on to those chips for so long (as you articulated). Regardless, his intent is to inflame dissent and start arguments, not to inform people or provide perspective.

If we go down this road, we'll see that in many games - particularly older titles - that upgrading from a 2600k to an 8700k makes little sense. Yet we can see where the 8700k has advantages. The fact remains that anyone who wants the best PC gaming chip right now, wants the 8700k. Trying to take a dig at some other CPU because it matches the performance of an OCed 2600k really doesn't contribute to the discussion.

You guy can squabble about CPU's and while you're conversating get killed by a player with a Phenom 2. Happens all day every day. lol

Pffft all it takes is a smoke grenade and you'll lag to death.
 
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Harmaaviini

Member
Dec 15, 2016
34
11
36
I have pre-ordered an 8700K for $379. Could have had it for $370 but I took too long. But yes, everything I see says the 8700K is *THE* gaming processor.

Perhaps it's too late now but what I would have done:
I would build a new ryzen 6-core PC for the daughter and give her the gtx 1080 and buy a gtx 1080ti for myself. It would scratch my building itch and give me a new toy to play with.
 
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slashy16

Member
Mar 24, 2017
151
59
71
the way you try to frame Ryzen's performance is comical at best.

Not sure what you mean. Clock for Clock Ryzen is behind nearly every I7 chip since 2012. We are talking about an I7 in this thread that clocks a full ghz ahead of
the best ryzen..
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,165
136
Not sure what you mean. Clock for Clock Ryzen is behind nearly every I7 chip since 2012. .

You know exactly what I mean, since I already articulated the point earlier in the thread.

Overall, Ryzen's IPC is closer to Broadwell, sometimes eclipsing it. But hey if you want to bring out some edge cases where it is slower than Broadwell, I can show you some edge cases where it is faster than Skylake, and we can go around like that all day long. Or we can just stop, since such an exercise would be pointless.
 

slashy16

Member
Mar 24, 2017
151
59
71
While I agree with the recommendation, the way you try to frame Ryzen's performance is comical at best.

Ryzen is below all of the latest I7's in ST and gaming. The latest I7/I5 run 1000mhz above ryzen when overclocked. I'm not trying to frame Ryzen performance in anyway other than what it is.
 

epsilon84

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2010
1,142
927
136
Ahh the IPC argument rears its ugly head again. Do you guys seriously have nothing better to argue about?

This was already settled in another thread:
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...arks-reviews-input-everything.2519949/page-13

Ryzen IPC is lower than Haswell, and about 12% lower than Kaby Lake (and by extension, Coffee Lake)

In CPU bound gaming, it often exceeds this 12% figure. This, plus Ryzens clockspeed deficit, is the main reason Ryzen falls behind in 1080P gaming.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,436
1,655
136
Ahh the IPC argument rears its ugly head again. Do you guys seriously have nothing better to argue about?

This was already settled in another thread:
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...arks-reviews-input-everything.2519949/page-13

Ryzen IPC is lower than Haswell, and about 12% lower than Kaby Lake (and by extension, Coffee Lake)

In CPU bound gaming, it often exceeds this 12% figure. This, plus Ryzens clockspeed deficit, is the main reason Ryzen falls behind in 1080P gaming.
Well and 1080p gaming is misnomer as well. CPU bottlenecked gaming. Which is what people don't do except in edge cases of super high frame rate ultra competitive shooters like CSgo (again not CSgo in particular just the actual Pro-gamer portion of it). That's the framing everyone is missing when referring to gaming. It matters if you are building a new machine now for whatever reason to keep an eye out for gaming CPU's but there is almost no difference in any Sandybridge or later IPC CPU when played how people actually play their games which is GPU bottlenecked.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,165
136
And of course everyone forgets to mention that Ryzen often has higher min FPS despite having lower AVG fps. But hey let's not let that complicate a good discussion on why Ryzen is an "awful gaming CPU".

Regardless, to get back on topic . . . OP should just get the 8700k, it's what's hot today. Okay?
 
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