Formula1 2013 thread

[_Rick_]

Yeah, Kubica was also sad. But much less protracted, than this epic Massa decline and ever repeating failure.

Barichello, well he was a veteran as well, and racing alongside Schumi was probably quite a hard time, but at least Schumi got those titles

Webber just wasn't that good, and a bit whiny, considering he painted himself as the tough Aussie

 

[punjabiplaya]

Here's to praying for rain. I guess I could do an Indian rain dance...

 

[The Boston Dangler]

vettel has won the 2013 grand parade of singapore

 

[RiDE]

Less and less inclined to wake up at 5am for this...

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Less and less inclined to wake up at 5am for this...

for most of my life, my enthusiasm for f1 has been near maximum. this year...no. the result is as predictable as the manner in which it is achieved.

on the other hand, audi has just won the 6 hours of the circuit of the americas, with toyota a strong 2nd. WEC / LM is way better than ALMS / daytona. the difference between f1 and endurance racing is that endurance racing is kinda deliberately boring, where in f1 it's an unfortunate side-effect.

hey, is that gerhard berger in your pic?

 

[RiDE]

for most of my life, my enthusiasm for f1 has been near maximum. this year...no. the result is as predictable as the manner in which it is achieved.

on the other hand, audi has just won the 6 hours of the circuit of the americas, with toyota a strong 2nd. WEC / LM is way better than ALMS / daytona. the difference between f1 and endurance racing is that endurance racing is kinda deliberately boring, where in f1 it's an unfortunate side-effect.

hey, is that gerhard berger in your pic?

Close... it's Jean Alesi. :wub:

I'm a Ferrari fan but even 2002 and 2004 was hard to wake up for. I'm glad they were winning but it just wasn't very entertaining. Don't get me wrong... I respect the kind of driving and technical superiority needed to dominate like that (much like what RB and Vettel are doing now) but holy shit was it boring.

Speaking of finger boy...

"While the others are going home to soak their testicles in their swimming pools, we are working on the car, trying to squeeze everything out of it." -http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/formel1/news-179386-vettel-konkurrenz-haengt-ihre-eier-in-den-pool

 

[Meghan54]

...but holy shit was it boring.

Boring? A >30 sec. lead at the finish? How could that possibly be boring?

 

[JulesMaximus]

vettel has won the 2013 grand parade of singapore

Alonso and Raikkonen had a good result and a good race. Best they could hope for really.

I kept hoping Vettel's car would catch on fire though.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm going to say it again...

It's a shame Alonso doesn't have a little better car under him...

 

[redgtxdi]

How will all of these things (most importantly the Vettel dominance) change at the arrivals of next years's cars!?!?

While it will kill me to see the V8's go, I'm simultaneously hoping it can level the playing field.

 

[Atty]

I really don't understand the hatred towards Vettel. He is a good guy, races as hard as he can no matter what (which is exactly what a racing driver should do), and has a great team behind him. I understand that people want variety on the podium but there are still good battles throughout the field.

I'm really glad Vettel won this race. I hope he continues to do well.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think it's partly disappointment in that F1 was supposed to get more competitive, and more exciting, and it really hasn't.

There was supposed to be lots of passing with DRS, but the only cars that pass to get to the front are the same top teams, and they would likely have been passing anyway, because their cars and drivers are better.

It's been more of the same, imo, despite lots of changes to make it different.

If you can get on pole, and get out front in clean air, you can run away.

Vettel and Red Bull are great at getting on the pole...

 

[JulesMaximus]

I think it's partly disappointment in that F1 was supposed to get more competitive, and more exciting, and it really hasn't.

There was supposed to be lots of passing with DRS, but the only cars that pass to get to the front are the same top teams, and they would likely have been passing anyway, because their cars and drivers are better.

It's been more of the same, imo, despite lots of changes to make it different.

If you can get on pole, and get out front in clean air, you can run away.

Vettel and Red Bull are great at getting on the pole...

I thought the battles going on for the top 9 spots was fantastic in this race and from that aspect it was very exciting. Vettel winning from pole with a 30+ second lead over second place? Completely boring. At least NBC showed the battles going on and not just a blue car out there circulating by itself.

Anyone hear the boos coming from the crowd when Vettel spoke? It was really noticeable in Italy and it was pretty noticeable Saturday night too.

The crowd loves Kimi though. :thumbsup:

I hope Lotus can secure a good driver for next year. I'd hate to see them out of F1 due to financial reasons.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think refueling is what's needed...it adds a whole other strategy for teams to use.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I think refueling is what's needed...it adds a whole other strategy for teams to use.

That would have been a real problem in the race on Saturday because one team mate will always be caught out in that situation if there is a safety car. Since Grosjean was running 4th he came into the pit box first but since the tire changes only take 3 seconds or so it didn't cost Raikkonen at all because by the time he got there Grosjean was already gone. It used to take 10 seconds or more to refuel the cars depending on how much fuel they wanted to add so Raikkonen would have been sitting there waiting, costing him positions on track.

Refueling also will always favor one driver within the team. One car will have to be heavier to go a little further into the race since they cannot pit at the same time. So, which driver do you choose?

 

[LTC8K6]

That would have been a real problem in the race on Saturday because one team mate will always be caught out in that situation if there is a safety car. Since Grosjean was running 4th he came into the pit box first but since the tire changes only take 3 seconds or so it didn't cost Raikkonen at all because by the time he got there Grosjean was already gone. It used to take 10 seconds or more to refuel the cars depending on how much fuel they wanted to add so Raikkonen would have been sitting there waiting, costing him positions on track.

Refueling also will always favor one driver within the team. One car will have to be heavier to go a little further into the race since they cannot pit at the same time. So, which driver do you choose?

Well, you'd change the way that works to accommodate refueling. You wouldn't call both drivers in at once, normally. Full course cautions are rare.

Freeze the positions on track and close the pits when a full course caution is issued. It's safer that way. No one is rushing to try to gain an advantage during the caution. When the field is gathered up, open the pits.

There's always a #1 and a #2 driver anyway.

First of all, you don't need 20 people to change 4 tires...

There's also no need to change 4 tires in 3 seconds if refueling will take 7 seconds, for example.

Refueling seldom caused a problem before. It didn't seem to bother the two car teams much.

Indy cars have a neat safety system for refueling. The ECU will not allow a forward gear to be selected while the fuel probe is in the socket on the car.

 

[Topweasel]

Yeah, Kubica was also sad. But much less protracted, than this epic Massa decline and ever repeating failure.

Barichello, well he was a veteran as well, and racing alongside Schumi was probably quite a hard time, but at least Schumi got those titles

Webber just wasn't that good, and a bit whiny, considering he painted himself as the tough Aussie

Even Kubica isn't that sad or Zinardi. Kubica knew where his bread was buttered and still decided to race in another racing series during his off time and was injured. Sure he was racing and racing is his job but random rallying wasn't (and it wasn't like he was doing Promo stuff for his race team).

Zinardi on the other hand while his injury and come back from it is heartwarming. He was at the tail end of a long career and in a way his desire to prove that his injury isn't holding him back kept him going a lot longer then sitting in the back end of a Champcar/IRL pack ever would have.

The other guys showed brightly in the beginning tapered off as they got into better teams and where regularly beat by their teammates.

Not saying the same wouldn't have held up for Massa. But he did come on brightly. Got into one of the most sought after seats. A 7 time WC retired rather then force Massa out of Ferrari. Within a couple years had the championship within his grasp and then nearly died doing what he was paid to do and has become mostly a shell of himself since. It's almost like seeing what would have happened to Gilles if he survived the accident.

 

[tweakmonkey]

I hope Lotus gets Hulkenberg (or Diresta, who I think is a really exciting racer, but he's had such bad luck I doubt he'll get signed to a big team in the next year).. have someone young who's still hungry to win.

Refueling is probably gone forever I'd imagine, it's just a messy thing and with just a few accidents, it's enough to scare everyone into agreement. Too bad because it did add some excitement and competition.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I hope Lotus gets Hulkenberg (or Diresta, who I think is a really exciting racer, but he's had such bad luck I doubt he'll get signed to a big team in the next year).. have someone young who's still hungry to win.

Refueling is probably gone forever I'd imagine, it's just a messy thing and with just a few accidents, it's enough to scare everyone into agreement. Too bad because it did add some excitement and competition.

I agree for the most part but they like to keep messing with the rules every couple years to shake things up so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a return to refueling in F1 at some point. Then there will be a couple accidents and they will ban it again.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

i think it's very unlikely refueling will return at any point for races of 2 hours or less. it adds cost, risk, and enables the cars to go faster (1. lighter fuel load, 2. smaller tank, 3. less dynamic range between full and empty). regulating bodies like FIA desperately fight for the opposite of those things every year.

the f1 field has never been closer, yet things overall are pretty stagnant. most overtaking occurs because of drastically different tire conditions, followed by drs. the problems are (imo) :

track design does not lend itself to passing. there is only 1 line to take, and if you're not on it you're screwed. this addressed in a couple new tracks (india, austin) with big corners that allow for multiple lines (huge entry, narrow exit). abu dhabi in particular has it backwards.

aero is king, and when a car gets behind another his aero shuts off. the only answer i have is to further limit the downforce produced in the first place.

the same (deliberately) rapidly-degrading tires that can produce passing can prevent it. not only is it necessary to protect tires at all times, but the amount of marbles off line is simply amazing. drive on that stuff and you are done.

qualifying. if you spend all day sorting the pack from fastest to slowest, don't be surprised when they finish the race in roughly the same order.

 

[LTC8K6]

The main problem is the attempt to make all of the cars the same. It has ruined several race series, imo.

 

[Meghan54]

I really don't understand the hatred towards Vettel. He is a good guy, races as hard as he can no matter what (which is exactly what a racing driver should do), and has a great team behind him. I understand that people want variety on the podium but there are still good battles throughout the field.

I'm really glad Vettel won this race. I hope he continues to do well.

I don't think it's hate on Vettel specifically...if another driver/team was dominating like Vettel is, the "hate" would be directed towards him. But Vettel gets the "hate" because a 2 sec. lead after 1 lap, which balloons to 30+ sec. at the end, causes boredom.

And really, do you spend your time salivating over an upcoming F1 race because you want to see the battle for 8-9-10th places? Really? Would you watch any other sport that is a blowout almost every time it's played so you can watch battles between also-rans (car racing) or between pairs of players? Are you riveted to your screen watching player matchups in a football game that has a 27-0 score at halftime?

No battle for the lead brings about boredom and lack of interest.

There was supposed to be lots of passing with DRS, but the only cars that pass to get to the front are the same top teams, and they would likely have been passing anyway, because their cars and drivers are better.

Well, it doesn't help that DRS is only available to be used in a very few sections of the track, that you cannot use it until lap 2 or 3, and you cannot use it unless the car ahead is within 1 sec of you. When Vettel has a 2 sec. lead after lap 1, he's immune to anyone using DRS to catch up, negating its relevance completely, at least as far as the leader is concerned.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Well, it doesn't help that DRS is only available to be used in a very few sections of the track, that you cannot use it until lap 2 or 3, and you cannot use it unless the car ahead is within 1 sec of you. When Vettel has a 2 sec. lead after lap 1, he's immune to anyone using DRS to catch up, negating its relevance completely, at least as far as the leader is concerned.

DRS isn't a catch-up tool, it's a passing tool for those already caught up. either way, i don't like it at all.

what i'd rather see is the full-time use of driver-controlled active aero, front and rear. it would give them a nice tuning option (like the adjustable front wing did in 2009) and opportunity for driver courage/skill/error.

 

[punjabiplaya]

God damn. Just watched the race. I was at the ALMS and WEC race in Austin and it was just so much more interesting.

If you ignore 1st place from F1, it's very entertaining.

 

[busydude]

Another pole position for Vettel, but the rest of the field is much closer to them than in S'pore.