Formula1 2013 thread

[foghorn67]

Yawn. This sport turned into fiasco.
Its turned into who can massage the tires the most.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

i've always liked webber

Yawn. This sport turned into fiasco.
Its turned into who can massage the tires the most.

managing the car always has been, and must always remain, a major part of car racing. however, they have completely lost any balance. every time they try to "improve the show" it's a disaster. 1 more super boring season like this and i'll turn my back to f1 for the 1st time in my life.

 

[foghorn67]

i've always liked webber



managing the car always has been, and must always remain, a major part of car racing. however, they have completely lost any balance. every time they try to "improve the show" it's a disaster. 1 more super boring season like this and i'll turn my back to f1 for the 1st time in my life.

I do love the strategy aspect of any motorsport. Fuel, tires, etc. But you hit the nail on the head. The balance is gone.

 

[_Rick_]

I wonder if giving the teams completely free reign over tire choice (given the current bouquet of 4 tire styles) would make the racing more or less interesting.
The current way in which the teams have to race on a slow compound (Webbers second stint in India was a joke) does feel quite artificial. And it may inspire teams to take more gambles, especially on tracks where two types of compounds actually work.
Plus, maybe in India one-stopping with a soft and hard, and skipping the medium might have had a different result for Kimi?
Given the limited practice time, there should also be no more certainty among the teams how a tire actually performs in a race, making gambles and mid-race strategy changes more likely.

The downside is, that on many circuits it will quickly be established that one tire is optimum, and almost everyone will be on the exact same strategy.

To make things more interesting, it might be a good idea to give teams a per-year tire allocation instead, much like gearboxes and engines. In fact, you could give the teams the exact amount of tires they get now, and give them free reign over how they use them over the season.
Make it a strict limit, and the end of a season could become a very interesting time.

 

[boomhower]

I kinda liked the tire choices this week, lots of different strategies. I can't wait for next season. I am a Vettel fan but the week on end domination with no competition is getting old even for me. I want to see him win it at the last race, not a month ahead of time.

 

[LTC8K6]

Maybe they need to add weight to any car that consistently wins by a large margin?

This win was by 30 seconds, and that only because Vettel backed off.

But then the winners will start pacing themselves so they don't win by too much.

 

[satyajitmenon]

Maybe they need to add weight to any car that consistently wins by a large margin?

This win was by 30 seconds, and that only because Vettel backed off.

But then the winners will start pacing themselves so they don't win by too much.

Or - reverse the race finish line up/order and use that as starting line up/order in the next race.

 

[_Rick_]

Maybe give the car qualifying weight handicaps according to the points achieved in the last race(s?).
In the race, I would still like to see a good driver/car combo to shine and perform to the max, but making their job a bit harder by giving them a slight malus during qualifying could introduce a little more variety.

But I think F1 is supposed to be a level playing field. Therefore introducing handicaps based on past performance won't really fly.
Probably the biggest issue with F1 these days is the high degree of reliability that has been achieved. Even twenty years ago, retirements were much higher than they are now. Maybe the second turbo era will increase technicals for the big teams again. And it's these technicals that rendered many races interesting.

Pit stops will be further penalized next year btw, with a new 80kph pit lane speed limit. That will probably add a further two seconds or so to a pit stop, depending on the track layout.

 

[LTC8K6]

Maybe give the car qualifying weight handicaps according to the points achieved in the last race(s?).
In the race, I would still like to see a good driver/car combo to shine and perform to the max, but making their job a bit harder by giving them a slight malus during qualifying could introduce a little more variety.

But I think F1 is supposed to be a level playing field. Therefore introducing handicaps based on past performance won't really fly.
Probably the biggest issue with F1 these days is the high degree of reliability that has been achieved. Even twenty years ago, retirements were much higher than they are now. Maybe the second turbo era will increase technicals for the big teams again. And it's these technicals that rendered many races interesting.

Pit stops will be further penalized next year btw, with a new 80kph pit lane speed limit. That will probably add a further two seconds or so to a pit stop, depending on the track layout.

If it was a level field, one car wouldn't stand out so much so often. And I do think it's mostly the car. I think Hamilton or Alonso or Raikonnen would run just as fast in Vettel's car.

 

[_Rick_]

If it was a level field, one car wouldn't stand out so much so often. And I do think it's mostly the car. I think Hamilton or Alonso or Raikonnen would run just as fast in Vettel's car.

It's a level field for the constructors, not for the drivers.
And the development is where all the money goes, the drivers are just a very small part of the budget, if they're not even self-sponsored these days.

Secondly, being a driver is not just about driving. These days drivers are also implicated in the development, especially when it comes to communicating how the simulator performs differently from the car, how the data from the car feels in the car, all of which flows into setup work, tire projections etc.

But that's what F1 is, much like LMP1 racing. Those are not primarily driver classes, but the drivers still make their mark, obviously.

And there's no reason an advantage shouldn't snowball, as while the others try to catch up to the fastest car, the fastest car can still be developed further. On the other hand, with good mid-season development (RB this year and in 2009, McLaren last year, Lotus and Sauber this year) you can still catch up rather well. Before the summer break, the RB was all over the place, compared to the current performance. Of course this season, the events at Silverstone precipitated additional vertical mobility in the field.

 

[LTC8K6]

It's a level field for the constructors, not for the drivers.
And the development is where all the money goes, the drivers are just a very small part of the budget, if they're not even self-sponsored these days.

Secondly, being a driver is not just about driving. These days drivers are also implicated in the development, especially when it comes to communicating how the simulator performs differently from the car, how the data from the car feels in the car, all of which flows into setup work, tire projections etc.

But that's what F1 is, much like LMP1 racing. Those are not primarily driver classes, but the drivers still make their mark, obviously.

All of that has been the case for decades. None of that is much different today.

 

[_Rick_]

All of that has been the case for decades. None of that is much different today.

Precisely what I was trying to say.
It's the nature of F1, and the current regulations aren't objectively any worse or better than they were for the last three to four decades, excluding improved safety testing and features.

And the result of this paradigm means, that a fast car will always be a fast car. Not to mention, that the RB wasn't consistently the fastest car over the last 4 years. It did very well on average, but in late 2012 McLaren was faster, and in early 2013 the Mercedes were faster. In early 2012 the season was a complete mix-up. 2011 was a run-away year. 2010 would have been a run-away year if not for some technical issues on Seb's car in the first half of the season. And 2009 was just weird

I was just rebutting your claim, that F1 wasn't a level playing field. But it is, and there were always periods of dominance that lasted for more than a single season. That's the nature of the beast - if you want to reward engineering effort, you can't go penalizing a fast car.

 

[RiDE]

LOL

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

He finished second in Japan, didn't he?

 

[LTC8K6]

Webber was knocked out of the Korean GP by a collision with Sutil, not an oil leak.

 

[_Rick_]

So, everyone's favorite Mark on pole.
Will he stay there for the first corner? First lap?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

So, everyone's favorite Mark on pole.
Will he stay there for the first corner? First lap?

Probably not, and definitely not.

 

[punjabiplaya]

man, Alonso doesn't even make it into Q3. Hulk is beasting that Sauber, it's a damn shame it's looking like he may not even have a seat next year.

 

[redgtxdi]

I'd love to see Webber pull a Vettel on Vettel. Who knows though. Some people have made some amazing leaps off the line this year.

Go Hamilton!

 

[boomhower]

I'd love to see Webber pull a Vettel on Vettel. Who knows though. Some people have made some amazing leaps off the line this year.

Go Hamilton!

He'll blow the start and Vettel will run away with it.

 

[_Rick_]

So, it was the first corner after all..
And Raikönnen out too...

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I stayed up till 2am to watch the GP, but the stream was so terrible it was literally unwatchable - maybe 2s of video every 5-10 seconds. I managed to watch the first 2 laps, is there anything worth watching in the rest of the race?

 

[busydude]

I stayed up till 2am to watch the GP, but the stream was so terrible it was literally unwatchable - maybe 2s of video every 5-10 seconds. I managed to watch the first 2 laps, is there anything worth watching in the rest of the race?

Nop. One of the most boring races of the year, but Vettel's domination is pretty extraordinary.

 

[_Rick_]

Nop. One of the most boring races of the year, but Vettel's domination is pretty extraordinary.

Well, there's alonso coming out of the pitlane past jev (?) And Massa going past Hamilton together with with either a force india ir a sauber. That's about it. Grosjean never really raced anyone, until he attempted to pht some pressure on Rosberg at the end, Hamilton was battling FIs and Saubers all race without really getting past. Massa got called inro the pits to let alonso past.
So yeah, aside from the two moves of the Ferraris, not much happened. Oh, pic didn't want to let VDG by. So he passed him with DRS.

 

[boomhower]

He'll blow the start and Vettel will run away with it.

Yep, called that one. About the only interesting left for the year is to see if Vettel will tie the record for the most wins in a row.