Fort McMurray Wild Fire

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
You took what I said out of context. I said, "add more 747's and other modern aircraft."

We hire Evergreen for the 747's. They use 747's in addition to old WWII prop planes.

Understand?

....and I mentioned that Prop planes are better.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,461
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
Would jet planes fair well fighting fires though? I think they use prop planes for a reason. All that ash, and also possibility of injesting lot of water and floating debris during water scooping.

Been watching a lot of that footage, freaking scary, imagine being in that traffic, you don't really know what's ahead, but pretty much just have to keep going and hope for the best.
 

-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
41
Would jet planes fair well fighting fires though? I think they use prop planes for a reason. All that ash, and also possibility of injesting lot of water and floating debris during water scooping.

Been watching a lot of that footage, freaking scary, imagine being in that traffic, you don't really know what's ahead, but pretty much just have to keep going and hope for the best.

The 10 tankers handle it just fine. The biggest issue is maneuverability and upkeep.
 

NAC4EV

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2015
1,882
754
136
Beriev Be-200 a nice design


The multirole Be-200 can be configured as an amphibious water drop fire-fighting aircraft, a freighter, or as a passenger aircraft—the pressurized and air conditioned cabin allowing transportation of up to 72 passengers. The Be-200 can also be equipped for special missions. When configured as an air ambulance, the aircraft can carry up to 30 stretcher patients and seven seated patients or medical crew. In the search and rescue role, the aircraft can be equipped with searchlights and sensors, an inflatable boat, thermal and optical surveillance systems, and medical equipment. The search and rescue variant can accommodate up to 45 persons. The aircraft is also capable of being configured for anti-submarine warfare duties.









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu8UpnCyvAE

 
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BrainEater

Senior member
Apr 20, 2016
209
40
46
It's shocking how much has gone away.

I hope the good seafood place there made it , but it backed onto the trees.....

:\

edit :

Prop planes are better because of their 'low speed' ability.
An airplane cannot scoop water from a lake at 150 knots.They explode.

=)
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,952
16,210
126
It's shocking how much has gone away.

I hope the good seafood place there made it , but it backed onto the trees.....

:\

edit :

Prop planes are better because of their 'low speed' ability.
An airplane cannot scoop water from a lake at 150 knots.They explode.

=)

Seafood in Fort Mac? Does not compute.
 

NAC4EV

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2015
1,882
754
136
Prop planes are better because of their 'low speed' ability.
An airplane cannot scoop water from a lake at 150 knots.They explode.

=)

The Berroev Be-200 can scoop water while skimming the water surface at 90-95% of takeoff speed. = 124mph/110knots
Takeoff speed: 220 km/h (137 mph)
Not bad for a turbo fan.

I prefer variable pitch turboprop water bombers.
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
The news is saying that the current situation is "better" than yesterday. On the human/residential front, probably. On the economic front, I'm not so sure... The fire is blowing towards some pipelines and operations. They've probably shutdown the piplines, but there will probably be a flammable residual inside.

Edit:

The report says about 1,600 buildings were completely burned by Thursday as a result of the Fort McMurray wildfire, four times the loss in the Slave Lake wildfire of May 2011 that led to Canadian insurance industry losses of more than $700 million.

http://business.financialpost.com/b...-events-to-hit-canadian-insurers-moodys-warns

It's not just the destroyed buildings. The ones that didn't burn probably still sustained substantial damage to the exterior from heat, ash, and embers -- water/impact damage from being water/retardant bombed. Everyone hauled ass with little warning, so their HVAC is probably still sucking shit air into the buildings. Possible power loss means tons of "destroyed" fridges. Everything is likely coated in a burning smell. Property write downs from being surrounded by burned out trees and buildings.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,461
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
Ten car pile-up near the beginning with cars on top of one another? I'm assuming something heavy came by earlier to clear the road...

Possibly, or gas tank explosions maybe. Though I would imagine they probably have some loaders going around moving cars an debris for firemen to pass.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,461
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
Just heard on the news the oil companies are laying off people, that's ridiculous, this is temporary, it's not like production will be affected for ever. Pretty much a huge slap in the face for those that worked there. Now they have to deal with trying to find another job after all this.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
Just heard on the news the oil companies are laying off people, that's ridiculous, this is temporary, it's not like production will be affected for ever. Pretty much a huge slap in the face for those that worked there. Now they have to deal with trying to find another job after all this.

It will allow them to apply for EI. I highly doubt there are many who can actually show up for work at this time.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
They supposedly have a lot of excess capacity at the work camps -- once the evacuees leave -- due to the mass layoffs. As long as major infrastructure isn't damaged, they should be back online relatively shortly.

It'll probably be at least a week before they can get things going. Even if the facilities are a go, very bad PR to force your workers who lost all their stuff back to work so quickly. On the other hand, having a paycheck would be really useful at a time like this.

Edit: Woops, edited wrong post.
 
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BrainEater

Senior member
Apr 20, 2016
209
40
46
Given the amount of Newfies there, it makes perfect sense.

Yea , bingo !
Owned and operated by a family from Newfoundland.They literally had seafood flown in from both coasts 3x a week.Amazing seafood.
 
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Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
There is only 1 highway in and out of town, 60k+ residents, the fire was under control at one time, when it did flare up again it spread ridiculously fast, you just don't call for evacuation all willy nilly.

Yes, one road, but that one road should have been able to move everyone in about 4 hours -- it looks to me like almost no one began to leave until the fire was burning there neighbors home. Here's some facts:

1. The trees and other foliage is bone dry and you can see in many of the videos just how fast the fire can move and how quickly it goes from a few branches burning to the whole tree flaring up in bonfire. Knowing how dry things are means you have to be prepared if the conditions drive winds towards you.

2. The weather report surely indicated that the winds would blow towards town.

Put 1 and 2 together and its criminal that the officials didn't demand evacuation earlier -- and that's a fact!


Brian
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
Put 1 and 2 together and its criminal that the officials didn't demand evacuation earlier -- and that's a fact!

Total armchair fire preventioning...

I heard one of the main government officials on the news talking about how no size of firebreak would have prevented this. Can't help but think that clear-cutting forest around the town, putting gravel down/salting the earth would have prevented some damage. The fire did jump the highway and rivers, but they also managed to save huge parts of the town. Considering that this fire caused billions of dollars in damage to the town alone...

Fire's supposedly nearing some oil sands facilities now. I really hope they did something to protect their $100 billion plants.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
Yes, one road, but that one road should have been able to move everyone in about 4 hours -- it looks to me like almost no one began to leave until the fire was burning there neighbors home. Here's some facts:

1. The trees and other foliage is bone dry and you can see in many of the videos just how fast the fire can move and how quickly it goes from a few branches burning to the whole tree flaring up in bonfire. Knowing how dry things are means you have to be prepared if the conditions drive winds towards you.

2. The weather report surely indicated that the winds would blow towards town.

Put 1 and 2 together and its criminal that the officials didn't demand evacuation earlier -- and that's a fact!


Brian

Those kinds of conditions exist in many places every year. You can't just order people to evacuate on a whim. They had no idea it could get this bad this quickly.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,985
3,171
136
Those kinds of conditions exist in many places every year. You can't just order people to evacuate on a whim. They had no idea it could get this bad this quickly.
IDK. From the few clips I've seen, it looks like most of the forest is pine. Dry pine is the worst. The sap is really flammable. So is wood, yes, I know. But the sap vaporized and helps spread the fire because now you have this flaming gas every place.

So if you happen to live next to a big pine forest and you're NOT ready to haul ass when the forest is one spark away from going up, that's what I would call, at a minimum, poor planning.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
Those kinds of conditions exist in many places every year. You can't just order people to evacuate on a whim. They had no idea it could get this bad this quickly.


Perhaps, but then this place had an out of control wildfire a for a number of days before hand.

But, anyplace else that's fuel rich and tinder dry that also has a wildfire nearby ought to be planning to move to...


Brian
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,461
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
I'm sure they had started planing. We had a huge fire in my area a few years back and they were basically letting people know to be prepared to evacuate but that it was still far enough before they feel the need to do it. At one point the fire was headed straight for the city and people were pretty much ready to start evacuating if needed. It's a huge ordeal to evacuate especially if you have pets or elderly people so you sorta don't want to overreact either especially when this happens a lot. My guess is in this case it just came so fast they thought they had more time. Those winds were pretty strong.

Sky looked quite eerie when the wind was blowing the smoke our way.





 

-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
41
Perhaps, but then this place had an out of control wildfire a for a number of days before hand.

But, anyplace else that's fuel rich and tinder dry that also has a wildfire nearby ought to be planning to move to...


Brian

Most people are. They were probably on level 1-2 evac depending on proximity to the fire leading up to the evac. Once they set you level 3 you get out, but they dont force you to leave either. When you have a large population ready to leave and then the warning goes it's no big surprise it turns into a cluster getting out. Couple that with how fast a wildfire moves (it generates its own wind) and its not a surprise people are barely getting out. It's all fine and dandy to sit at a keyboard and preach, but until you are in that situation and have dealt with it it's hard to comprehend. Wildfires are no joke, but neither is mass evacuation on the off chance it flares.
 
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