Fox News, MSNBC, and ignorant highly opinionated people killing civil discussions?

[Paul98]

Don't equate Fox and the current MSNBC hosts. How about I equate Paul98 and Ann Coulter?

Thank you for making my point.

Instead of a reasonable response about why you don't think MSNBC hosts should be compared to FoxNews we get a post like this.

I even agree that Fox News is the worst of the bunch. I don't give them a pass just because they aren't as that bad compared to Fox News.

 

[cubby1223]

Don't equate Fox and the current MSNBC hosts. How about I equate Paul98 and Ann Coulter?

Except you can. You just don't realize it because you agree with their biases. That is how a bias works. That is what keeps Fox News high in the ratings. Same thing going on with you and MSNBC.

 

[Craig234]

Thank you for making my point.

Instead of a reasonable response about why you don't think MSNBC hosts should be compared to FoxNews we get a post like this.

I even agree that Fox News is the worst of the bunch. I don't give them a pass just because they aren't as that bad compared to Fox News.

I didn't 'make your point'.

You appear to be one of the people who doesn't know what you write.

Here's 'your point' based on your message subject - false equivalency of Fox and MSNBC.

Why don't you highlight the place you say they aren't equivalent:

"Fox News, MSNBC, and ignorant highly opinionated people killing civil discussions?"

You don't say that. You imply the equivalency you later deny.

So "Paul98 and Ann Coulter" isn't not reasonable, it's a fair illustration of your false equivalency.

I'm glad you agree now - and I never said any network is flawless, I said they're far from equivalent - but you don't get to pretend you said Fox is much worse all along.

So, let's try that again, with Fox in a class by itself.

 

[Paul98]

I didn't 'make your point'.

You appear to be one of the people who doesn't know what you write.

Here's 'your point' based on your message subject - false equivalency of Fox and MSNBC.

Why don't you highlight the place you say they aren't equivalent:

"Fox News, MSNBC, and ignorant highly opinionated people killing civil discussions?"

You don't say that. You imply the equivalency you later deny.

So "Paul98 and Ann Coulter" isn't not reasonable, it's a fair illustration of your false equivalency.

I'm glad you agree now - and I never said any network is flawless, I said they're far from equivalent - but you don't get to pretend you said Fox is much worse all along.

So, let's try that again, with Fox in a class by itself.

Because at no point did I imply that these were the same. You are making assumptions based on what you think I am saying rather than what I actually said. If I said stealing and mass murder are causing great distress for people. Does this mean that stealing is just as bad as mass murder? Of course not, it just means that both stealing and mass murder cause great distress for people.

 

[Ninjahedge]

I do. Actually, I blame Ted Turner.

After you pry it from his cold dead hands.......

 

[Moonbeam]

In order for something to improve there must first occur the notion that something is wrong with the initial condition. Say, for example, that the problem is that the ego exists because folk hate themselves. How are you going to get people who have egos to see this? It would require them to see that they hate themselves and to really see it they would have to know that truth by feeling it. To feel it is to die. The result of feeling how worthless you feel is freedom from that belief because when you feel it you remember when you bought into that lie because you relive it. Reliving it gives you certain knowledge of how you became what you are, certain knowledge of the lie of it all.

Once you know at the deepest levels that you are really OK, you have no more use for the ego. Thus to become what you really are, OK at the deepest levels, you have to die to all you are. And all you are is a protection from that pain of feeling worthless.

You see what a catch 22 we are in. The truth is down not up. We are upside down to reality. We are asleep. We are mechanical beings. We are programmed. We live in a delusion and a lie. We live in a prison from which there is no escape because it is always the ego that is trying to escape alive. But the only escape is for the ego to die.

So you see the situation is totally hopeless. We can do nothing because the we is ego preservation.

The Yogi can occasionally penetrate this truth with his mind. The Monk via faith in God can sometimes transcend. The Fakir can lay on a bed of nails completely master the body but most folk aren't interested in any of that.

We may also go the way of psychotherapy and neuroscience is busy uncovering the secrets of the brain, or rediscovering them, as they may have been known since ancient times and preserved among folk who know how to teach.

But it does seem that insight into the truth of a dilemma we cannot solve happens with some kind of energy that kicks the brain up a notch and that energy may be associated with need, a desire so intense it works like a fusing spark that connects what was previously certain to be unrelated, the dissolution of paradox via a higher state of consciousness. This may occur somewhere in the brain behind the right ear involved with the experience of humor. For that reason I would recommend that any who have a need to see may want to expose themselves as much as possible to laughing at their egos. There is no greater source of humor than the preposterousness of people.

 

[Bitek]

Two words:

ED

SCHULTZ

That guy makes everyone else, on any show, look rational and reasonable.

Fern

He is a douche. I think he is trying to be a leftwing Hannity. Sharpton is a terrible host. Odonnel is annoying and just has a faked outrage that gets old.

I think Maddow has a pretty good show. Undoubtedly left in perspective, but I think she tries to be honest. Opinion journalism is fine as long as they are advocating based on facts and not distortion and hype.

 

[bradley]

Thank you for making my point.

Instead of a reasonable response about why you don't think MSNBC hosts should be compared to FoxNews we get a post like this.

I even agree that Fox News is the worst of the bunch. I don't give them a pass just because they aren't as that bad compared to Fox News.

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. You don't have to pander to anyone; at least in my mind, Fox and MSNBC are the same thing as is Bush-Obama-Romney-McCain etc.

They no longer seem to teach the fundamentals to up-and-coming journalists, the huge chasm between objective fact and subjective opinion and even something as simple as framing a story with the five Ws.

Used to be the job of journalists was to vet the entire political and consumer landscape. Now they generate stories and imaginary narratives in order to report on them and orchestrate social engineering. Obviously, other types of JournoLists and their agendas are ever more insidious and sinister.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I think Obama hit the nail on the head here on at least one thing that's preventing productive discourse:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...rty-in-fiery-budget-speech.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
The short vid is at the bottom.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think Obama hit the nail on the head here on at least one thing that's preventing productive discourse:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...rty-in-fiery-budget-speech.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
The short vid is at the bottom.

This looks like the truth to me but I do not think conservatives can see it. There is something wrong with their brains.

 

[Stayfr0sty]

Glenn Beck and Bill Oreily are geniuses!!! Dont even get me started on Colmes and Ann Coulter....

 

[Jhhnn]

I think Obama hit the nail on the head here on at least one thing that's preventing productive discourse:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...rty-in-fiery-budget-speech.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
The short vid is at the bottom.

This looks like the truth to me but I do not think conservatives can see it. There is something wrong with their brains.

It's not the brains, but rather the ideas, the conceptual framework, the basic assumptions, the most cherished beliefs.

In AA, there's a saying that an active alcoholic's brain is like a pot full of shit- it's a perfectly good pot, but you have to clean it out completely before you can cook in it...

In more technical matters, like troubleshooting malfunctions in a complex machine, sometimes the reason a tech isn't able to figure it out is because they won't back up, completely re-evaluate their own methods & what they think is true in the first place.

Conservatives rarely do that, tend to sanctify what they already believe, consider it to be inviolable, beyond question, which is precisely what Obama points out.

I also think that in order to understand the current state of impasse, of lack of civility & respect, we need to see it in historical terms, to understand who's used language as a weapon most effectively, who advocates using it in such a fashion-

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1276

 

[Triumph]

Solution. Turn the damned TV off and spend time with friends and family.

Yup. Haven't watched cable news or even big 3 nightly news in years. Not willingly, at least. It is absolute drivel. NPR isn't perfect, but it is absolutely refreshing to listen to people have a discussion, biased or not, that doesn't involve yelling at one another. People love to hate on NPR but it is at least civil.

 

[Craig234]

It's not the brains, but rather the ideas, the conceptual framework, the basic assumptions, the most cherished beliefs.

Science increasingly disagrees with you.

For example, the part of the brain for fear seems significantly larger with righties.

There's more and more to suggest that the things you mention are the result, not the cause. I could list many related studies, but will just keep this one brief.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's not the brains, but rather the ideas, the conceptual framework, the basic assumptions, the most cherished beliefs.

In AA, there's a saying that an active alcoholic's brain is like a pot full of shit- it's a perfectly good pot, but you have to clean it out completely before you can cook in it...

In more technical matters, like troubleshooting malfunctions in a complex machine, sometimes the reason a tech isn't able to figure it out is because they won't back up, completely re-evaluate their own methods & what they think is true in the first place.

Conservatives rarely do that, tend to sanctify what they already believe, consider it to be inviolable, beyond question, which is precisely what Obama points out.


I also think that in order to understand the current state of impasse, of lack of civility & respect, we need to see it in historical terms, to understand who's used language as a weapon most effectively, who advocates using it in such a fashion-

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1276

It is their brains. They are full of shit because they suck shit in.

 

[homercles337]

The guy makes outrageous remarks frequently.

One example is not "frequently." Either put up, or shut up. If its really frequent (honestly i have never heard of this guy) then put up multiple examples. You conservatives are horribly fond of making inferences from small sample sizes (in this case N = 1).

 

[Craig234]

One example is not "frequently." Either put up, or shut up. If its really frequent (honestly i have never heard of this guy) then put up multiple examples. You conservatives are horribly fond of making inferences from small sample sizes (in this case N = 1).

I asked Fern for two this year. As usual, no reply. No retraction.

 

[trenchfoot]

It's not the brains, but rather the ideas, the conceptual framework, the basic assumptions, the most cherished beliefs.

In AA, there's a saying that an active alcoholic's brain is like a pot full of shit- it's a perfectly good pot, but you have to clean it out completely before you can cook in it...

In more technical matters, like troubleshooting malfunctions in a complex machine, sometimes the reason a tech isn't able to figure it out is because they won't back up, completely re-evaluate their own methods & what they think is true in the first place.

Conservatives rarely do that, tend to sanctify what they already believe, consider it to be inviolable, beyond question, which is precisely what Obama points out.

I also think that in order to understand the current state of impasse, of lack of civility & respect, we need to see it in historical terms, to understand who's used language as a weapon most effectively, who advocates using it in such a fashion-

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1276

Great link. Thanks.

 

[Craig234]

Great link. Thanks.

Complemented by the whole Frank Lutz project that has been central to their marketing.

 

[gingermeggs]

Just get a big library of Gilligan's island, the 6million dollar man, the fall guy and all those kind shows and put them on a loop on ure big fat plasma 60"
Keep the beer cold, all is good!

 

[ky54]

I can't believe there's people stupid enough to think MSNBC is the beacon of truth. For that matter any American news source. I swear some of you would be utterly lost if CNN (had any plagiarists on lately?), NBC (forged any tapes lately?), ABC (forged any crash tests lately), etc etc etc didn't do your thinking for you. Oh, and FNC too.

 

[Craig234]

I can't believe there's people stupid enough to think MSNBC is the beacon of truth. For that matter any American news source. I swear some of you would be utterly lost if CNN (had any plagiarists on lately?), NBC (forged any tapes lately?), ABC (forged any crash tests lately), etc etc etc didn't do your thinking for you. Oh, and FNC too.

Boy, thank goodness we have a reliable journalist like you proving they're all lies!

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I think Obama hit the nail on the head here on at least one thing that's preventing productive discourse:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...rty-in-fiery-budget-speech.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
The short vid is at the bottom.

I'd like to thank the AP for clearly validating Obama's point from above with this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/obama-ap-speech-fact-check_n_1402382.html?1333544206

 

[ky54]

Boy, thank goodness we have a reliable journalist like you proving they're all lies!

LOL, I didn't say that but if it helps you through the day then, boyo, you got me!

ZING ZANG ZOWIE!

 

[Stayfr0sty]

3 words:
MASS MEDIA DECEPTION