France, the new Lebanon

[Biggerhammer]

Originally posted by: ScrewFace
...I wonder how you say the real name of God (Jehovah) in Arabic?

I couldn't find Jehova (the word, not the diety- already found Him, thank you very much ) but Jesus translates to:
???? ??????? ??????
(according to this translator, at least)

 

[RabidMongoose]

There is also a large problem with European attitudes towards immigrants - they largely hate them. Perhaps many of these Muslim immigrants have not integrated simply because the Europeans don't want to even associate with them. It sure would be horrible to be an outsider even in the country that you are born in.

The US and Canada easily accept immigrants, even Muslims and Arabs. These countries are far more accepting than the often xenophobic and racist European public.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose


The US and Canada easily accept immigrants, even Muslims and Arabs. These countries are far more accepting than the often xenophobic and racist European public.

Then how come there are all these minute-men hanging around the border?

 

[Whitecloak]

They cause a lot of problems in India & Sri Lanka too.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose


The US and Canada easily accept immigrants, even Muslims and Arabs. These countries are far more accepting than the often xenophobic and racist European public.

Then how come there are all these minute-men hanging around the border?

Because they are trying to draw attention to the problem of illegal immigration along the US/Mexico border. I don't think that these guys are xenophobic as much as they are just tired of seeing thousands upon thousands of Mexicans cross the border into our country illegaly.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose


The US and Canada easily accept immigrants, even Muslims and Arabs. These countries are far more accepting than the often xenophobic and racist European public.

Then how come there are all these minute-men hanging around the border?

You're talking about illegal immigration. In addition, nobody is saying that there are no xenophobic morons in the United States. Europe simply has more and it prohibits the integration of minorities. When 20% of your neighbors vote for a well known and blatant racist, I think you're going to have problems feeling OK at home.

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
There is also a large problem with European attitudes towards immigrants - they largely hate them. Perhaps many of these Muslim immigrants have not integrated simply because the Europeans don't want to even associate with them. It sure would be horrible to be an outsider even in the country that you are born in.

The US and Canada easily accept immigrants, even Muslims and Arabs. These countries are far more accepting than the often xenophobic and racist European public.

Read my experience of them above and you'll see why. We don't just make our feelings up. For example, where I live we have loads of Polish immigrants. They integrate, work hard and are polite. I like them. Hell, I even gave some a lift who were waiting for a bus to save them the fare the other day.

The arabs are nasty pieces of work. Go to Marseille in the south of France for a week, see what it's like then come back and talk to us about racism once you've actually experienced what it's like there. Go up and chat to some of them and see how friendly and desperate they are to integrate into the community. Until then, get off your moral high horse and get back into realily.

Just thinking of my last encounter with some arabs, it was when I was stopped in a motorway service station on my way to Italy. This family in their people carrier stopped, opened up the sliding door and emptied all their litter onto the floor, brazen as you like. They were no more than 10 yards from a bin (trash can). It's not even an isolated example, either. I wish it were.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That will be fun to watch from across the atlantic. :thumbsup: :evil:

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
When 20% of your neighbors vote for a well known and blatant racist, I think you're going to have problems feeling OK at home.

Myopic. The French starting to swing towards the right because they are sick of seeing the cancerous spread of immigrants within their country and they wanted the governemnt to do something about it.

Imagine you're in their place: everywhere you see there are immigrants causing shit. Your government is soppy and has their arms (legs) open allowing in all these imigrants without control. A different party, albeit a right-wing one, offers some control. What do you do?
Most people didn't even like the vast majority of Le Penn's policies, they just wanted the government to realise that they were pissed at them and they wanted some decisive action.

I don't think you have full knowledge of the ethos of the French people.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: ScrewFace
I don't think the common people who are Muslims are hostile to the West. At least here in Canada most of the ones I've met are extremely glad to be in a free country. I work for a Muslim from Bangladesh and he treats me very well. Even though I'm a Jehovah's Witness supporter and he knows that he has no problem with it and he treats me better then all those False Christians (Catholics, Baptists, Evangelical, Mormons, Lutheran etc.).

We just have to watch ourselves. Here in Ontario Muslim men want Sharia law to be the law for them, and, of course, Muslim women don't want that and for good reason. We have to say no to that and tell Muslims they must obey OUR laws except where the law interferes with their ability to worship their god ('Allah' in Arabic). I wonder how you say the real name of God (Jehovah) in Arabic?

Note the contradiction in the parts that I have highlighted. Sure, they're glad to be in a place where they're not being persecuted by some repressive autocratic regime, BUT they certainly do not respect "freedom". They want Sharia.

Once there are enough of them in the country, you will have problems there too.

 

[ViRGE]

I'll be straight-up with this; has anyone ever thought that this may just be the beginning of the downfall of Western society? Now before anyone jumps on me, I don't mean this in any negative way towards other societies(i.e. this is only in an academic sense), but we know that no previous society has lasted forever, and no one is sure any present or future society can last forever. Maybe Western society has finally sputtered out, and it's time for something else to take over? It's certainly possible it happen sooner or later, if not now.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: loic2003
Read my experience of them above and you'll see why. We don't just make our feelings up. For example, where I live we have loads of Polish immigrants. They integrate, work hard and are polite. I like them. Hell, I even gave some a lift who were waiting for a bus to save them the fare the other day.

They're also white and look and act a lot more like the general population. There is also no outright hostility, anger, and violence against them.

The arabs are nasty pieces of work. Go to Marseille in the south of France for a week, see what it's like then come back and talk to us about racism once you've actually experienced what it's like there. Go up and chat to some of them and see how friendly and desperate they are to integrate into the community. Until then, get off your moral high horse and get back into realily.

You are part of the problem with your attitude towards them. You're a perfect example. Keep putting them down, discriminating against them, and hating them and they won't want to be your neighbor either.

J

ust thinking of my last encounter with some arabs, it was when I was stopped in a motorway service station on my way to Italy. This family in their people carrier stopped, opened up the sliding door and emptied all their litter onto the floor, brazen as you like. They were no more than 10 yards from a bin (trash can). It's not even an isolated example, either. I wish it were.

What a great example to be racist towards people.

Yup, great attitude over there in Europe towards immigrants.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: loic2003
Myopic. The French starting to swing towards the right because they are sick of seeing the cancerous spread of immigrants within their country and they wanted the governemnt to do something about it.

Yup, try to justify voting for a well known and open racist.

Imagine you're in their place: everywhere you see there are immigrants causing shit. Your government is soppy and has their arms (legs) open allowing in all these imigrants without control. A different party, albeit a right-wing one, offers some control. What do you do?
Most people didn't even like the vast majority of Le Penn's policies, they just wanted the government to realise that they were pissed at them and they wanted some decisive action.

I don't think you have full knowledge of the ethos of the French people.

You can try to justify their racism and hatred of anyone that doesn't look anything like them, but in the end it's all racist.

I really can't blame these people when Europe is filled with people like you.

 

[CanOWorms]

I fear for the future of Europe - but not fear of Arab immigrants, fear for them. Sometimes I feel like yet another genocide is going to start in Europe. The last one was only a decade ago or so, they're overdue for another.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: loic2003

see what it's like then come back and talk to us about racism once you've actually experienced what it's like there.

I actually have. That's what makes me even more scared for the future.

 

[Savij]

It's not just Muslims Europeans don't like. I have a Romanian friend who tells stories of her family going to live/work in other parts of western Europe and how they never want to go back. Basically she made it sound like if you're an outsider, they don't want you. I also seem to remember quite a few news articles at the end of 04 talking about how racist Europeans were in relation to sports. Something about simulating gas chamber noises at jewish players, monkey sounds at black players, etc...

It generally sounds like really don't want nonwhite nonwestern people near them.

 

[Mill]

Well, to play Devil's Advocate here, we had a lot of Muslim workers from Turkey last year, and they were nothing but extremely nice and well mannered. I got along great with them, and actually made friends with several of them. I can't discount your anecdotal experiences either(everyone who posted about sh!t that happened to them in Europe), but I wonder if it is because of the hostility there? I mean... when Muslims can get along great with the indigenous population of "redneck/racist" Alabama, then why are the "tolerant" French having such a problem? Very interesting.

 

[kermalou]

PLEASE TAKE THIS TO P&N FOR THE LOVE OF ATOT

 

[imported_alp]

ummm... i have been to france many times and have seen none of this really...

and what's with all the 'all muslims want to overthrow our society' and 'all europeans are racist' stereotypes?

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: loic2003
Myopic. The French starting to swing towards the right because they are sick of seeing the cancerous spread of immigrants within their country and they wanted the governemnt to do something about it.

Yup, try to justify voting for a well known and open racist.

Imagine you're in their place: everywhere you see there are immigrants causing shit. Your government is soppy and has their arms (legs) open allowing in all these imigrants without control. A different party, albeit a right-wing one, offers some control. What do you do?
Most people didn't even like the vast majority of Le Penn's policies, they just wanted the government to realise that they were pissed at them and they wanted some decisive action.

I don't think you have full knowledge of the ethos of the French people.

You can try to justify their racism and hatred of anyone that doesn't look anything like them, but in the end it's all racist.

I really can't blame these people when Europe is filled with people like you.

From your couch-politician view, it can seem as though we're all terrible racists, but you really do not have a clue what it is like over there. Since it is so easy for you to believe that one race (the French/europeans) can supposedly totally discriminate the other (the arabs) why is it completely beyond your capacity to believe that it might just be the other way around? just because they are the minority it does not mean they are all innocent lambs like you portray. I contend that you do not have sufficient experience or knowledge to be able to justify your obviously simplistic views on the mentailty of different races. Algeria and the other north african countries are not all in turmoil or at war. The arabs are in no threat there. So if it's such a hideous, nasty country, full of racists who hate them and discriminate against them such that they have absolutely no chance over here, then why are there 5 million+ legal immigrant arabs in france? There must be something for them over there....

It's people like you that allow the problem to be created to begin with. It's people like you that the french public wanted to remove from power or at least alert them to the acute dissatisfaction about the current immigration policies.

Since you think racism is all about one person not liking the way the other looks like (again, a racism 101 view) allow me to inform you that I have friends who are indian, portuguese and indeed black. I think they're great people who shift their weight and contribute towards society. Many of the best surgeons in the UK are from india and I welcome these people with open arms into my country. Don't go branding me a racist when you don't know me or understand the roots behind my beliefs.

Did you read my above posts about the crimes committed against my family by arabs? Have you looked into the percentage arab population of france and compared it to the percentage arab population in prison? Have you even been to France?

The problem these days is people like you ring the racism bell and everyone ducks for cover with their hands over their mouths desperate not to offend these supposed innocents. Because of this nothing changes and countries can have massive problems. It's not racism, even David Blunkett -a man I admired- had the balls to stand up and say that he thought England was losing it's soul because of the surge of other races entering the country. He wasn't branded a racist. Why? Because opposing immigration policies does NOT make you a racist.

As an interesting note, none of your comments actually offered any kind of factual evidence nor any insightful information. All you offered were little comments basically pointing a finger at me calling me a racist, but not offering any evidence as to whether you actually knew anything about the immigrant issues in Europe.

ummm... i have been to france many times and have seen none of this really...

Depends where you go. The majority are in the southern areas from Lyon to Marseille.

Well, to play Devil's Advocate here, we had a lot of Muslim workers from Turkey last year, and they were nothing but extremely nice and well mannered. I got along great with them, and actually made friends with several of them. I can't discount your anecdotal experiences either(everyone who posted about sh!t that happened to them in Europe), but I wonder if it is because of the hostility there? I mean... when Muslims can get along great with the indigenous population of "redneck/racist" Alabama, then why are the "tolerant" French having such a problem? Very interesting.

An interesting point here, and very often true. A lot of this can be down to the more successful and happy people staying in their own country whereas many of the people who succumb to scrounging from governments would be more inclined to emmigrate to countries that offer good benefits. Many years ago my father had an arab friend from the army who flew over from Turkey to visit him. He commented that the people (arabs) he saw around would be the kind that you'd cross the street to avoid walking past back home. If everything is hunky-dory for you where you live, you have no reason to emmigrate. If you're from a poor country and can't be bothered to work and wish to go some place to doss about, cause crime and sponge from the government, you're going to want to emmigrate.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Islam *IS* the enemy of Western civilization.

Correct.

wrong, ass. any ultra-fundamentalism will produce fanatics no one likes. christianity has em, not just islam. sad that islam gets a bad rep for it

Christians don't bomb airplanes or behead people simply because they aren't christian. Get informed.

you might want to take that advice for yourself. Look up what the Christian religion has done.

Slaughtering of people is not just a Islamic trait.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I fear for the future of Europe - but not fear of Arab immigrants, fear for them. Sometimes I feel like yet another genocide is going to start in Europe. The last one was only a decade ago or so, they're overdue for another.

It needs to anyways

 

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That will be fun to watch from across the atlantic. :thumbsup: :evil:

That's if others and the USA won't butt in! How do you think world war always starts?

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: ScrewFace
I don't think the common people who are Muslims are hostile to the West. At least here in Canada most of the ones I've met are extremely glad to be in a free country. I work for a Muslim from Bangladesh and he treats me very well. Even though I'm a Jehovah's Witness supporter and he knows that he has no problem with it and he treats me better then all those False Christians (Catholics, Baptists, Evangelical, Mormons, Lutheran etc.).

We just have to watch ourselves. Here in Ontario Muslim men want Sharia law to be the law for them, and, of course, Muslim women don't want that and for good reason. We have to say no to that and tell Muslims they must obey OUR laws except where the law interferes with their ability to worship their god ('Allah' in Arabic). I wonder how you say the real name of God (Jehovah) in Arabic?

whoa whoa whoa there. Sorry, I stopped giving you credibility after reading the above.

 

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I'll be straight-up with this; has anyone ever thought that this may just be the beginning of the downfall of Western society? Now before anyone jumps on me, I don't mean this in any negative way towards other societies(i.e. this is only in an academic sense), but we know that no previous society has lasted forever, and no one is sure any present or future society can last forever. Maybe Western society has finally sputtered out, and it's time for something else to take over? It's certainly possible it happen sooner or later, if not now.

I do think that what goes up must come down. Western culture will eventually go down. The question is simply when it will happen. But in spite of that, Western culture won't die completely. It would have influenced a whole lot. Look at Spain and the surrounding region. They're rich in culture and influence from the Middle East/Northern Africa. There was a time where the prevailing culture was from Muslims known as the Moors; Moorish Spain.

I don't think the Arabs are the next in civilization, but I do think that they are capable of it as any other group. I think what's going on now has nothing to do with being Arab as it does with a lack of civilization from all ends (yes, including the Europeans). And to me, civilization is more than tools invented. You can invent all sorts of things, but it will never make up for character. The French have no character; nor do the Arab immigrants. And they're clashing as a result. My opinion, of course.