France, the new Lebanon

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: loic2003
From your couch-politician view, it can seem as though we're all terrible racists, but you really do not have a clue what it is like over there.

Oh, I forget - you must be a politician! :roll:

I know what it is like over there. You act as if nobody goes to Europe. Are you a minority? Do you have a clue what it is to be treated like one? Wow, this is easy!

Look at your own racist statements and then think about it.

Since it is so easy for you to believe that one race (the French/europeans) can supposedly totally discriminate the other (the arabs) why is it completely beyond your capacity to believe that it might just be the other way around? just because they are the minority it does not mean they are all innocent lambs like you portray. I contend that you do not have sufficient experience or knowledge to be able to justify your obviously simplistic views on the mentailty of different races. Algeria and the other north african countries are not all in turmoil or at war. The arabs are in no threat there. So if it's such a hideous, nasty country, full of racists who hate them and discriminate against them such that they have absolutely no chance over here, then why are there 5 million+ legal immigrant arabs in france? There must be something for them over there....

Maybe they are in France to seek a better life. Plenty of people come to the US and we don't try to insult them at all times, unlike you and your ilk. Your statements show a hideous side into the common European mentality - bash the immigrants, they must be inferior to you, especially if they are of a different skin tone and culture. You want them to be exactly like you.

By the way, I doubt France has 5 million legal Arab immigrants. This is part of your problem - you are associating people that were born in France - and effectively French (of course you won't call them that since they aren't of 'French stock') - yet you still refer to the as immigrants. No, France has plenty of people born in France, where the French population as a whole is displaying its hatred against.

It's people like you that allow the problem to be created to begin with. It's people like you that the french public wanted to remove from power or at least alert them to the acute dissatisfaction about the current immigration policies.

Good idea, the French people should vote for a well known and blatant racist. Oh wait, a good bit of them already did that. That must make you proud.

Since you think racism is all about one person not liking the way the other looks like (again, a racism 101 view) allow me to inform you that I have friends who are indian, portuguese and indeed black. I think they're great people who shift their weight and contribute towards society. Many of the best surgeons in the UK are from india and I welcome these people with open arms into my country. Don't go branding me a racist when you don't know me or understand the roots behind my beliefs.

Wow, the 'I have black friends' argument, yet you have already displayed your racist views. How typical.

Did you read my above posts about the crimes committed against my family by arabs? Have you looked into the percentage arab population of france and compared it to the percentage arab population in prison? Have you even been to France?

Wow, replace 'arab' with black and you would be a perfect KKK member.

The problem these days is people like you ring the racism bell and everyone ducks for cover with their hands over their mouths desperate not to offend these supposed innocents. Because of this nothing changes and countries can have massive problems. It's not racism, even David Blunkett -a man I admired- had the balls to stand up and say that he thought England was losing it's soul because of the surge of other races entering the country. He wasn't branded a racist. Why? Because opposing immigration policies does NOT make you a racist.

Opposing immigration (unless you are targetting whites only) isn't racist, but your comments certainly are. You are the typical racist who tries to excuse his racism.

The sad thing is that you won't even acknowledge a solution to cure this problem - be more accepting and these immigrants and their descendants will integrate more into society. Hate them and you will never get along. Don't expect them to be exactly like you, no matter how much you hate looking at them. However, they should adapt some. Try not to vote for openly racist people, too. That would help.

As an interesting note, none of your comments actually offered any kind of factual evidence nor any insightful information. All you offered were little comments basically pointing a finger at me calling me a racist, but not offering any evidence as to whether you actually knew anything about the immigrant issues in Europe.

Neither have you. All you have done is state a blanket declaration as some sort of validation for your racism. Then you tried to excuse your racism by saying you have immigrant friends. How typical again.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Mill
Well, to play Devil's Advocate here, we had a lot of Muslim workers from Turkey last year, and they were nothing but extremely nice and well mannered. I got along great with them, and actually made friends with several of them. I can't discount your anecdotal experiences either(everyone who posted about sh!t that happened to them in Europe), but I wonder if it is because of the hostility there? I mean... when Muslims can get along great with the indigenous population of "redneck/racist" Alabama, then why are the "tolerant" French having such a problem? Very interesting.

'Redneck' Alabama is far better than Europe, IMO, in terms of race issues.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
...
The sad thing is that you won't even acknowledge a solution to cure this problem - be more accepting and these immigrants and their descendants will integrate more into society. Hate them and you will never get along. Don't expect them to be exactly like you, no matter how much you hate looking at them. However, they should adapt some. Try not to vote for openly racist people, too. That would help.

I'm no expert on French immigration policy, but I was under the impression that France has typically been very open and accepting towards immigrants the last few decades. Much of western europe is facing a serious problem since they have a very low birth rate, and a socialist system dependent on a young workforce. They need immigrants to fill the workforce. Which is one of the reasons this story is interesting.

Apparently some of the Muslim immigrants have no intention of adapting or integrating and view Frances open and liberal immigration policies as a weakness to be exploited. If this is really the case then I highly doubt that being even more accepting will help any.

 

[Warthog912]

Originally posted by: shuan24

Originally posted by: ScrewFace
I don't think the common people who are Muslims are hostile to the West. At least here in Canada most of the ones I've met are extremely glad to be in a free country. I work for a Muslim from Bangladesh and he treats me very well. Even though I'm a Jehovah's Witness supporter and he knows that he has no problem with it and he treats me better then all those False Christians (Catholics, Baptists, Evangelical, Mormons, Lutheran etc.).

We just have to watch ourselves. Here in Ontario Muslim men want Sharia law to be the law for them, and, of course, Muslim women don't want that and for good reason. We have to say no to that and tell Muslims they must obey OUR laws except where the law interferes with their ability to worship their god ('Allah' in Arabic). I wonder how you say the real name of God (Jehovah) in Arabic?

whoa whoa whoa there. Sorry, I stopped giving you credibility after reading the above.

I never gave him credibility from the get-go, this just proves his ignorance-

 

[jai6638]

Originally posted by: ScrewFace
I wonder how you say the real name of God (Jehovah) in Arabic?

you just say Jehovah ...

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Are you a minority? Do you have a clue what it is to be treated like one? Wow, this is easy!

Look at your own racist statements and then think about it.

I was born in France and I grew up in england, so I have experience of being in the minority with an unusual name and family roots. Yeah I grew up with the racist jokes and still get them from time to time but I don't mind. I put more effort and money into my countries than many locals do, I'd fight for my countries in a war. This is why I feel part of it and am proud to have the dual nationailites.
What experience have you with being an immigrant?

By the way, I doubt France has 5 million legal Arab immigrants

Let me correct myself, France has 5 million+ muslim arabs.
They might be one generation into being "French" but since they aren't up for integrating it'd be more accurate to say they live in France rather than having French nationailty. I know you try to duck away from facts, but let me take a couple of quotes from the following articles:

link
link

...put the current Muslim population of France at 6 million. Some sources point to 8 million.

... an estimated 5 million Muslims in France.

So yeah, there are 5 million+ arab muslims in France. Learn something new every day, eh?

Lets have a look at some other quotes:

Also frightening to the French government is the lack of assimilation into national identity by these immigrants. Decades of immigration have produced a large class of young men who claim Islam, not France, as their identity and consider crime as an acceptable life style.

More than 23,000 French prison inmates are Muslim, this is more than six times the proportion of Muslims to the overall French population.

I think you should really stop your childish finger-pointing and name calling (eg saying I should be in the KKK or whatever... jeez) and actually learn something about the field in which you decide to argue before you confront someone about it. It's plain to see that you have no real knowledge of the arab muslim culture, nor the real feelings behind the native French population and are simply making your opinions sat behind your computer thousands of miles away based on some PC cobblers that children are taught in school these days.

You have a brochure-level understanding of the politics behind these issues as demonstrated by such gems as:

Good idea, the French people should vote for a well known and blatant racist. Oh wait, a good bit of them already did that. That must make you proud.

I'm positive you'll refuse to take back any of your ignorant comments and remain adamant that I'm some fascist or whatever and completely dismiss all evience that contradicts whatever 'points' you actually put forward (not too many, mostly it's just "yeah, but you're a racist" -style comments...).

This guy's got the idea:

Originally posted by: hscorpio
Apparently some of the Muslim immigrants have no intention of adapting or integrating and view Frances open and liberal immigration policies as a weakness to be exploited. If this is really the case then I highly doubt that being even more accepting will help any.

So before you start screaming "racist, racist!" again, I suggest you do some reading, speak to some people from the area, learn about the issue, then maybe go about judging people. Until then you will remain an ignorant, immature troll in my eyes.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Islam *IS* the enemy of Western civilization.

Correct.

wrong, ass. any ultra-fundamentalism will produce fanatics no one likes. christianity has em, not just islam. sad that islam gets a bad rep for it

The problem being discussed here is not a few "fanatics no one likes". It is the fact that the entire Islamic culture is inherently hostile to the West. This culture believes that it is acceptable to ritually behead infidels, to stab to death a movie director who made a movie "offensive to Islam", to hang charred bodies of infidels from a bridge and cheer, to issue a fatwa encouraging the killing of Salman Rushdie (who wrote a book "offensive to Islam"), to fly passenger planes into buildings, to encourage and promote the practice of suicide bombing, and to otherwise treat people who are not themselves Muslims as inferior beings.

It is also the fact that Islamic culture as a whole here does not want to assimilate into modern European society. These people would rather replace it with their own.

So, ass, you don't see Christians immigrating en masse into predominantly Islamic areas, not assimilating into Islamic society, and promoting intolerance and hatred in that society.

There were large groups of Christians claiming that 9/11 as well as the Tsunami were both punishments from God. I guess that also means that every single Christian supported that idea? After all, every single Muslim supports Muslim fundamentalism according to you...
The Unabomber was an American, so every single American is killing other Americans?

There were demonstrations when that film director was killed, and there were also Muslims walking along in those demonstrations. It's a small group of Muslim terrorists who admire Al Qaida who did it, and who are now on trial for several things.

The groups who go to college and get jobs don't get in the news as they are not interesting, the groups who cause problems do, and that's what people base their view of the whole Muslim community on.

Any person or group causing problems should be locked up, whether they claim to be Muslims, Christians, or whatever. But that is not happening at the moment, and that's what causing all the hate. If you'd lock up all the criminals (Arab, Jewish, Christian, whatever) as well as all the skinheads in nice camps with 'Arbeit macht frei' above the entrance it would make the world a better place.

 

[mhillary]

Thats just too sad.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: loic2003
That'll be the 5 Million+ arabs over there making the place properly shit. It's not racism, it's the truth. So hard to come up with a positive story involving the arabs in France. Trust me, I've got loads of Family over there, and I visit regularly, they're simply not nice people.

It is called "hostile immigration"; Arabs and muslims are not there to be assimilated into French culture. Given the chance, they would turn France into an Islamic country. Something very similar is happening in Holland, if I remember correctly (60 Minutes recently had a story on a film director who was ritually killed because his film offended muslims).

These are not nice people.

yea, a month or so ago they ran it again. just sad how some of those reps of islam didn't seem to have any concept of how freedoms in liberal democracys work. that their religion should be above ridicule..about critisism..that the director basically just asked to be killed immigration without assimilation is just suicide. the dutch have learned their lesson..or atleast i hope they have. freedoms no good if you don't protect it from radical ideologies who seek to oppress.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: loic2003
Read my experience of them above and you'll see why. We don't just make our feelings up. For example, where I live we have loads of Polish immigrants. They integrate, work hard and are polite. I like them. Hell, I even gave some a lift who were waiting for a bus to save them the fare the other day.

They're also white and look and act a lot more like the general population. There is also no outright hostility, anger, and violence against them.

The arabs are nasty pieces of work. Go to Marseille in the south of France for a week, see what it's like then come back and talk to us about racism once you've actually experienced what it's like there. Go up and chat to some of them and see how friendly and desperate they are to integrate into the community. Until then, get off your moral high horse and get back into realily.

You are part of the problem with your attitude towards them. You're a perfect example. Keep putting them down, discriminating against them, and hating them and they won't want to be your neighbor either.

J

ust thinking of my last encounter with some arabs, it was when I was stopped in a motorway service station on my way to Italy. This family in their people carrier stopped, opened up the sliding door and emptied all their litter onto the floor, brazen as you like. They were no more than 10 yards from a bin (trash can). It's not even an isolated example, either. I wish it were.

What a great example to be racist towards people.

Yup, great attitude over there in Europe towards immigrants.

Answer one question: Have you lived in France before? Visited for a lengthly period of time?

If not, you have NO understanding of the problem of Arabs in France. None at all.