Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[nickqt]

I don't want to take this thread off topic just for a zinger, but if the most applicable sanctions you can come up with for the most deplorable violation of individual rights imaginable are the re-election of the team responsible and a "that's not my bag" on the anand forums then you may as well just toll the death knell of progressivism.

You think Obama is a progressive?

LOL

Nice one!

Obama is a socially liberal centrist. The last progressive President was Teddy Roosevelt.

 

[Darwin333]

He died in the hospital and not at any of those stops, clearly they did something.

Something like cause the injuries that required him to be hospitalized and eventually resulted in his death?

 

[OutHouse]

humm, the DA is married to the councilman for the district this happened in.

pandering votes? seems suspicious

 

[Genx87]

humm, the DA is married to the councilman for the district this happened in.

pandering votes? seems suspicious

Eh most prosecutors are pandering to voters as they are an elected position. Mosby ran on a campaign to hold Baltimore police accountable. 4 months into her position and these dimwits provided her with a perfect opportunity to fulfill that campaign promise.

 

[Zorkorist]

Hell, if you get to be a pig...

You are made.

-John

 

[zanejohnson]

Hell, if you get to be a pig...

You are made.

-John

yep. just like the mafia used to make "made men."

 

[zanejohnson]

i wish i had the resources/popularity/exposure to get into politics.... if only to become a sheriff, and then arrest every single corrupt deputy in my county while in office.

i'd then retire, and feel like i'd worked toward the good of the planet.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Unless the prosecution can proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the actions of the officers caused the injury/resulting death and that there's no feasible way that Gray could have taken actions that resulted in his injury chances are there will be no convictions. The prosecution will also have to prove that Gray's death was not due to complications from the surgery that was performed as he died.

So is your support of cops that abuse people all part of your hysterically incorrect idea that making prisons tough will stop crime? Let the cops abuse people pre/post arrest and then continue abusing them in prison? LOL

If so, you are still totally and completely wrong.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So is your support of cops that abuse people all part of your hysterically incorrect idea that making prisons tough will stop crime? Let the cops abuse people pre/post arrest and then continue abusing them in prison? LOL

If so, you are still totally and completely wrong.

You never stop trying to speak for others and claim to know their stance on given issues.

All that I have stated in this thread is the prosecution in this case is going to have a serious uphill battle proving the charges against these officers beyond a reasonable doubt. It's going to be difficult to prove a "rough ride" occurred without witnesses to such. It's going to be difficult proving it was solely the officers actions (not securing Gray in the van) and not Gray actions that resulted in the injury that eventually caused his death.

 

[fskimospy]

You are pro-war, anti-terrorist and all that rot. Sorry if I mistated your position but that is my understanding of it. Feel free to correct me, just be gentle please.

I'm not pro war, I imagine everyone is anti-terrorist, and you misstated my position.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't want to take this thread off topic just for a zinger, but if the most applicable sanctions you can come up with for the most deplorable violation of individual rights imaginable are the re-election of the team responsible and a "that's not my bag" on the anand forums then you may as well just toll the death knell of progressivism.

I don't know how you don't know this, but the party competing against them is even more enthusiastic in their support of that policy.

That's what's so sad about American politics. The democrats have plenty of dumb ideas when it comes to economics, the military, etc. The problem is that every subject they are dumb on conservatives are even stupider. I mean remember how you were talking about how we should raise rates so people could make more money on interest, despite the fact that basically nobody in America except the ultra rich has much interest income? Obama might not have enacted a big enough stimulus, but at least he wasn't that ignorant of macro 101.

 

[bshole]

I'm not pro war, I imagine everyone is anti-terrorist, and you misstated my position.

Ah thank god. No more talk of invading Syria or Iran or attacking ISIS then. I was under the impression that these pro-war policies you support while I could not be more vehemently opposed.

 

[cKGunslinger]

I thought The Federalist actually had a decent article this week on the issue:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/05/05/why-isnt-the-right-defending-freddie-gray/

Freddie Gray was an American citizen who started his day having not committed a crime, and ended the day with fatal injuries sustained while in custody of the government. And Republicans are defending…the government? Who are you, and what have you done with my conservatives?

 

[fskimospy]

Ah thank god. No more talk of invading Syria or Iran or attacking ISIS then. I was under the impression that these pro-war policies you support while I could not be more vehemently opposed.

That is a very dumb argument and you know it.

 

[bshole]

That is a very dumb argument and you know it.

What objective evidence do you have that I know it is a dumb argument? You have no idea how deep the tard runs within me. How dare you presume to know the depth of my idiocy?

It is not a dumb argument. How in the heck can dropping drones in sovereign countries without their consent be anything other than pro-war? Each drone kills dozens of innocent civillians and maybe one "terrorist". Can you imagine if some foreign government starting attacking American terrorists on American soil that way? France droning a few American "terrorists" in Dallas wouldn't be an act of war? It is pretty fucked up that many American liberals have dropped their pacifist roots.

 

[werepossum]

I don't want to take this thread off topic just for a zinger, but if the most applicable sanctions you can come up with for the most deplorable violation of individual rights imaginable are the re-election of the team responsible and a "that's not my bag" on the anand forums then you may as well just toll the death knell of progressivism.

+1

What objective evidence do you have that I know it is a dumb argument? You have no idea how deep the tard runs within me. How dare you presume to know the depth of my idiocy?

It is not a dumb argument. How in the heck can dropping drones in sovereign countries without their consent be anything other than pro-war? Each drone kills dozens of innocent civillians and maybe one "terrorist". Can you imagine if some foreign government starting attacking American terrorists on American soil that way? France droning a few American "terrorists" in Dallas wouldn't be an act of war? It is pretty fucked up that many American liberals have dropped their pacifist roots.

We have three alternatives:
(1) Allow terrorists safe havens to plot our death and simply take it, figuring that those killed are simply the price we pay for not being an Islamic state.
(2) Try to surgically kill the most important terrorists via drone strikes and SpecOps surgical raids, accepting that like any form of military action some civilians will be killed.
(3) Manfully invade those states not really working with us, killing the terrorists, many American soldiers, and by anyone's count far more innocent civilians.

Personally I think Obama's increased use of drones is the smartest option. Some progressives may disagree out of principle, which is fine, but I don't see anyone volunteering to be their next victim. As far as option #1, personally I don't believe trying to ignore people out to kill us and assuming that we can breed faster than they can kill us is either principled or smart.

 

[shortylickens]

You think Obama is a progressive?

LOL

Nice one!

Obama is a socially liberal centrist. The last progressive President was Teddy Roosevelt.

Didnt Kennedy free the negro?

 

[bshole]

+1


We have three alternatives:
(1) Allow terrorists safe havens to plot our death and simply take it, figuring that those killed are simply the price we pay for not being an Islamic state.
(2) Try to surgically kill the most important terrorists via drone strikes and SpecOps surgical raids, accepting that like any form of military action some civilians will be killed.
(3) Manfully invade those states not really working with us, killing the terrorists, many American soldiers, and by anyone's count far more innocent civilians.

Personally I think Obama's increased use of drones is the smartest option. Some progressives may disagree out of principle, which is fine, but I don't see anyone volunteering to be their next victim. As far as option #1, personally I don't believe trying to ignore people out to kill us and assuming that we can breed faster than they can kill us is either principled or smart.

You know Were, I disagree with you about 50% of the time but I always enjoy your well-thought posts.

Simply put, it is your position 1 that is the sticking point for me. The question is WHY they plot to attack us. Why don't they plot to attack China? I know of one MASSIVE difference between China and the United States. We have been meddling in there since WWII. We have been the subject of increasing attacks and hatred over there. China has been uninvolved and has remained unscathed. I therefor disagree with your original premise 1. I believe if we pulled completely out and quit meddling, the hatred would lessen and they would be less likely to attack. Every drone attack that kills dozens of innocent victims breeds more hatred. I could be wrong, I admit that, but that is a risk I am personally willing to take. The United States is the most hated entity over there for good reason. If any country did to America what we have done to the Middle East, I would loathe that country with a deep passion. My position will never really be tried because of our ties to Israel, but it is something I sincerely wish would come to pass.

Let the Middle East sort out their problems. From my perspective, we are actively impeding progress over there. I realize that both of us are intractable in our positions. Your position is not indefensible and I can readily see your point of view. If it weren't for the more than 50 years of failure I would agree with you. In fact I did agree with until the clusterfuck that was the Iraq war.

Can I get a +1? I love getting them from you!

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

More evidence showing on how the cops beat up people:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ay-jail-rejections-20150509-story.html#page=1

From June 2012 through April 2015, correctional officers at the Baltimore City Detention Center have refused to admit nearly 2,600 detainees who were in police custody, according to state records obtained through a Maryland Public Information Act request.

In those records, intake officers in Central Booking noted a wide variety of injuries, including fractured bones, facial trauma and hypertension. Of the detainees denied entry, 123 had visible head injuries, the third most common medical problem cited by jail officials, records show.

2,600 needed to go to the hospital, including 123 visible head injuries over three years. While I ma sure some were justified or unrelated to cop abuse, that's a lot of people needed hospital treatment.

It's probably just all those black criminals intentionally injuring themselves right? /sarcasm

 

[werepossum]

You know Were, I disagree with you about 50% of the time but I always enjoy your well-thought posts.

Simply put, it is your position 1 that is the sticking point for me. The question is WHY they plot to attack us. Why don't they plot to attack China? I know of one MASSIVE difference between China and the United States. We have been meddling in there since WWII. We have been the subject of increasing attacks and hatred over there. China has been uninvolved and has remained unscathed. I therefor disagree with your original premise 1. I believe if we pulled completely out and quit meddling, the hatred would lessen and they would be less likely to attack. Every drone attack that kills dozens of innocent victims breeds more hatred. I could be wrong, I admit that, but that is a risk I am personally willing to take. The United States is the most hated entity over there for good reason. If any country did to America what we have done to the Middle East, I would loathe that country with a deep passion. My position will never really be tried because of our ties to Israel, but it is something I sincerely wish would come to pass.

Let the Middle East sort out their problems. From my perspective, we are actively impeding progress over there. I realize that both of us are intractable in our positions. Your position is not indefensible and I can readily see your point of view. If it weren't for the more than 50 years of failure I would agree with you. In fact I did agree with until the clusterfuck that was the Iraq war.

Can I get a +1? I love getting them from you!

+1 Mo' debinitely.

China does get hit by Islamic radicals - search for Uighurs - but maybe not as much as the West. Hard to tell since they suppress news of terror attacks as a matter of policy. Personally I would support a radical new isolationism - pull every single American serviceman not in an active conflict (which would be those in South Korea only) back to American bases. Most countries don't really want us there anyway, they just want the money we spend supporting our bases there. Instead of spending our money maintaining foreign bases, spend it developing and manufacturing (in America) fast heavy lift to deploy a couple heavy divisions anywhere in the world in 72 to 96 hours. Set up bilateral defense pacts, so that nations actually wanting American defense pay to maintain bases which we'll inspect a couple times a year as well as agreeing to furnish a proportionate military force if we need them. No more France and Belgium agreements where we promise to defend them if they need it and if we need them, they'll think about it. Make a clear agreement with other nations - if you want our financial support, we need some specific consideration from you, whether support in the UN or something else. Otherwise any aid will be distributed directly to the people as we see fit. Make a clear agreement with corporations - if your people get kidnapped we'll go in with military force if necessary, but your property is between you and the nation. Can't trust the nation? Don't invest there. Make a clear agreement with the UN - if you want American force and we agree to provide it, levy a tax on all your member nations to pay for it up front. Make a clear agreement with Congress - no military deployments, ever, without a clear declaration of war AND a separate payment mechanism, preferably a special tax levied on every American with any form of income. If it's worth sending American military forces to fight and die, then let's all support it, all feel a little pain. Make a clear agreement with the CIA - it's fine to gather intelligence, but any investment in a faction or assassinations without a specific Congressional authorization will be punishable as per treason. (It can't actually BE treason - that's spelled out very specifically - but it can carry the same penalties, preferably with a stiff mandatory minimum.) Lock down the border - if nothing and no one gets through without being vetted, then terrorists have a much more difficult time getting here to attack us.

If we did all that, I think within a decade we'd see results in fewer attacks and better opinions of America and Americans world wide. If we don't do all that, think I think drone attacks are our best option.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You never stop trying to speak for others and claim to know their stance on given issues.

All that I have stated in this thread is the prosecution in this case is going to have a serious uphill battle proving the charges against these officers beyond a reasonable doubt. It's going to be difficult to prove a "rough ride" occurred without witnesses to such. It's going to be difficult proving it was solely the officers actions (not securing Gray in the van) and not Gray actions that resulted in the injury that eventually caused his death.

Are you essentially saying it was Grays fault for not wearing a seat belt? Like someone who hits your car is no longer liable if you are injured but you weren't wearing a seat belt?

Or

Are you stating that a bound man was somehow able to vault himself toward the door so violently he broke his neck?

 

[Knowing]

I don't know how you don't know this, but the party competing against them is even more enthusiastic in their support of that policy.

That's what's so sad about American politics. The democrats have plenty of dumb ideas when it comes to economics, the military, etc. The problem is that every subject they are dumb on conservatives are even stupider. I mean remember how you were talking about how we should raise rates so people could make more money on interest, despite the fact that basically nobody in America except the ultra rich has much interest income? Obama might not have enacted a big enough stimulus, but at least he wasn't that ignorant of macro 101.

I'm pretty sure there were anti-war candidates available in 2012, it would be more laughs than a barrel of nitrous medicated howler monkeys if the dems nominate Hilldawg... I'm sure she's not a hawk.

Rates being at emergency lows for 7+ years doesn't seem to have benefited anyone except people who already own assets. But, the longer they stay low the more debt is going to be incurred, debt that is going to be expensive to service if they ever go back up. Further, we're coming to the end of the historical duration of a bull market so if stocks (standing in for the real economy) do get out of this amazing Goldilocks phase what are they going to do? Negative interest rates? Helicopter money? Have the "regulators" managed to find anything that might lead to their own sphincters? They blamed the flash crash on a day trader operating out of his home, have they found anyone to prosecute for 2008? Holder's time limit must be running short and I'm not sure Lynch has ever seen a bank she'd like to prosecute. How did Q1 GDP look, was Q4 2014 revised... up or down? What about the jobs report, are we back to stacking full time jobs or was it more part time? Certainly wages must be going up, right? There's got to be some good news somewhere with the Baltic Dry at all time lows. Copper! I bet Dr. Copper has ended 4 straight years of decline and is signaling blue skies. Oh, it isn't. Inventory to sales has to be good. Hmmm. I guess all the companies that aren't selling inventory and aren't hiring full timers can announce some more stock buy backs. Well, maybe that's not a whole lumber load of "real data." Maybe I'm still just interpreting it wrong.

Edit: congrats on your thread hijack.

 

[nickqt]

I'm pretty sure there were anti-war candidates available in 2012, it would be more laughs than a barrel of nitrous medicated howler monkeys if the dems nominate Hilldawg... I'm sure she's not a hawk.

Rates being at emergency lows for 7+ years doesn't seem to have benefited anyone except people who already own assets. But, the longer they stay low the more debt is going to be incurred, debt that is going to be expensive to service if they ever go back up. Further, we're coming to the end of the historical duration of a bull market so if stocks (standing in for the real economy) do get out of this amazing Goldilocks phase what are they going to do? Negative interest rates? Helicopter money? Have the "regulators" managed to find anything that might lead to their own sphincters? They blamed the flash crash on a day trader operating out of his home, have they found anyone to prosecute for 2008? Holder's time limit must be running short and I'm not sure Lynch has ever seen a bank she'd like to prosecute. How did Q1 GDP look, was Q4 2014 revised... up or down? What about the jobs report, are we back to stacking full time jobs or was it more part time? Certainly wages must be going up, right? There's got to be some good news somewhere with the Baltic Dry at all time lows. Copper! I bet Dr. Copper has ended 4 straight years of decline and is signaling blue skies. Oh, it isn't. Inventory to sales has to be good. Hmmm. I guess all the companies that aren't selling inventory and aren't hiring full timers can announce some more stock buy backs. Well, maybe that's not a whole lumber load of "real data." Maybe I'm still just interpreting it wrong.

Edit: congrats on your thread hijack.

Solution:

Vote for the party that wants the banks to have even more power and less oversight. Because Democrats didn't deliver ponies for everyone.

Brilliant!

 

[shortylickens]

Was this Baltimore incident at all related:

http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/05/richard-fletcher-bashed-50-teens-race-hate-crime/


Maybe.
Maybe not.

But the news always makes it relevant somehow.

 

[xBiffx]

Was this Baltimore incident at all related:

http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/05/richard-fletcher-bashed-50-teens-race-hate-crime/


Maybe.
Maybe not.

But the news always makes it relevant somehow.

The news could connect Kato Kaelin to Ford stopping the production of the Ford Bronco if they wanted. It's what they do.