Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[Genx87]

Was this Baltimore incident at all related:

http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/05/richard-fletcher-bashed-50-teens-race-hate-crime/


Maybe.
Maybe not.

But the news always makes it relevant somehow.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the Gray killing. The people who did this are in custody awaiting trial.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Autopsy of Freddie Gray shows 'high-energy' impact

"Freddie Gray suffered a single "high-energy injury" to his neck and spine — most likely caused when the police van in which he was riding suddenly decelerated, according to a copy of the autopsy report obtained by The Baltimore Sun.

The state medical examiner's office concluded that Gray's death could not be ruled an accident, and was instead a homicide, because officers failed to follow safety procedures "through acts of omission."

Though Gray was loaded into the van on his belly, the medical examiner surmised that he may have gotten to his feet and was thrown into the wall during an abrupt change in direction. He was not belted in, but his wrists and ankles were shackled, putting him "at risk for an unsupported fall during acceleration or deceleration of the van."

...

"In concluding his death was a homicide, Assistant Medical Examiner Carol H. Allan wrote that it was "not an unforeseen event that a vulnerable individual was injured during operation of the vehicle, and that without prompt medical attention, the injury would prove fatal."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...eddie-gray-autopsy-20150623-story.html#page=1

 

[JEDI]

hm.. so 2nd degree murder charges for the police van driver seems justified.
but its all circumstantial. yet people have been convicted on circumstantial evidence b4

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Actually I don't see the murder charge (2nd degree depraved heart murder) being cut and dry as the autopsy shows that Gray could be partially responsible for his injuries due to standing while the vehicle was in motion. In fact this may also make it difficult to prove manslaughter as well.

 

[cabri]

hm.. so 2nd degree murder charges for the police van driver seems justified.
but its all circumstantial. yet people have been convicted on circumstantial evidence b4

And what is the requirements to meet 2nd degree?

If the police did not stand or sit him up; then the death becomes accidental, unless it can be shown that he was deliberately thrown around while not lying down.

the medical examiner surmised that he may have gotten to his feet and was thrown into the wall during an abrupt change in direction.

Did he changed his position and the police then attempted to cause damage. Good luck trying to prove it.

 

[Brainonska511]

I don't see how it would matter if he stood up. The police, who he was in the custody of, failed to secure him with a seat belt, as they are required to do. If they had not been negligent, the man would not have been able to stand or be injured.

And the fact that this wasn't the first time such an incident has happened in Baltimore, I find it hard to believe that they didn't know that an unsecured prisoner can be injured in a van ride.

 

[Genx87]

And what is the requirements to meet 2nd degree?

If the police did not stand or sit him up; then the death becomes accidental, unless it can be shown that he was deliberately thrown around while not lying down.


Did he changed his position and the police then attempted to cause damage. Good luck trying to prove it.

The depraved heart murder definition means conviction is more likely than a straight murder 2 imo. Because at least once during the trip the van stopped, he was checked on, and had injuries but no help was called.

That said I am honestly surprised any of these goons were indicted given the wide latitude police officers are given by the public to violate our rights.

 

[JSt0rm]

We all know they jerked the van to bang him up in the back. Oops he's dead. Oh well.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

All the prosecution has to do is proof such beyond a reasonable doubt. As well as prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Freddie Gray couldn't have contributed to the situation that resulted in his injury/death.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Baltimore cop starts tweeting some of the police abuse cases he personally witnessed during his tenure.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/24/bal...ets_examples_of_corruption_misconduct_he_saw/

A detective slapping a completely innocent female in the face for bumping into him, coming out of a corner chicken store

Punting a handcuffed, face down, suspect in the face, after a foot chase. My handcuffs, not my boot or suspect

Pissing and shitting inside suspects homes during raids, on their beds and clothes.

Swearing in court and PC docs that suspect dropped CDS during unbroken visual pursuit when neither was true.

So how many more bad apples is that now? And cops want us to trust them?

I'll await the usual cop apologists to hand-wave this away, or say it isn't a big deal. Or, most likely refuse to respond because it upsets their cognitive dissonance.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Baltimore cop starts tweeting some of the police abuse cases he personally witnessed during his tenure.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/24/bal...ets_examples_of_corruption_misconduct_he_saw/


So how many more bad apples is that now? And cops want us to trust them?

I'll await the usual cop apologists to hand-wave this away, or say it isn't a big deal. Or, most likely refuse to respond because it upsets their cognitive dissonance.

Woah...this would make a great thread of its own. Kind of a bigger picture look at what cops do and what they expect to get away with.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

How much do you want to bet the Dr. Vincent DiMaio will be testifying for the defendants in this case?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-rodricks-0625-20150624-column.html

Asked about the Maryland medical examiner's conclusion that Freddie Gray's death from injuries sustained in police custody was a homicide, Dr. Vincent DiMaio, one of the nation's leading forensic pathologists, said: "I'd have to respectfully disagree, and I know a number of other medical examiners do. It would be more appropriate to have classified this case as either an accident or 'undetermined,' because the way it's being called a homicide is, in a way, something that a jury has to decide. A medical examiner is not a lawyer, is not a jury. … They're saying [Gray's death] was not an unforeseen event. That's something for a jury to decide, not the doctor to decide."

 

[fskimospy]

How much do you want to bet the Dr. Vincent DiMaio will be testifying for the defendants in this case?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-rodricks-0625-20150624-column.html

That seems like a complete bullshit opinion to me. My understanding is that medical examiners always make some sort of determination of cause of death, and homicide is one of those classifications that is commonly used. I could see if the argument was that the medical examiner made a mistake in their classification, but saying that only a jury would determine if something was a homicide? Give me a break.

A medical examiner classifying something as a homicide does not mean a crime has been committed, which is what the jury would be tasked with determining in this case.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

May seem like BS to you however, Dr Vincent DiMaio is highly respected within his field and his opinion is carries a lot of weight. I suspect his testimony in the Michael Zimmerman case made a difference in the acquittal decision by the jury.

 

[xBiffx]

May seem like BS to you however, Dr Vincent DiMaio is highly respected within his field and his opinion is carries a lot of weight. I suspect his testimony in the Michael Zimmerman case made a difference in the acquittal decision by the jury.

I would agree with what Dr. MiMaio is saying. It doesn't really matter what the ME surmises. It's not factual, its their opinion, and in the end, its not the ME who decides the case, its the jury.

There is no way for the ME in this case to make a determination regarding homicide. There was nothing showing direct physical contact by anyone regarding the cause of death. The only way anyone can form that opinion is with evidence outside the scope of the medical exam. By just examining the body you would not be able to show homicide. Cause of death is cause of death. Labeling a death a homicide doesn't explain at all the method in which a person died and therefore doesn't show the exact cause of death.

 

[Ackmed]

We all know they jerked the van to bang him up in the back. Oops he's dead. Oh well.

We all know this is your bias opinion, and has no factual ground to stand on.

 

[cabri]

We all know they jerked the van to bang him up in the back. Oops he's dead. Oh well.

We all know this is your bias opinion, and has no factual ground to stand on.

Do not burst his bubble; after all, he thinks he is an Internet bad guy.:hmm:

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

We all know this is your bias opinion, and has no factual ground to stand on.

Hey Ackmed, you keep ignoring these other cop murder threads.....funny how you completely ignore them and only selectively defend cop murders. White cops that kill their wives get a free pass from getting shot and killed, cops that shoot people in the back get a free pass from you as well. Interesting double standard. Only seem to defend cops that kill kids and minorities. Very interesting.

And it not just opinion about breaking his neck, the Baltimore PD has a well known and documented history of doing this, giving "rough rides" to prisoners.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...d-gray-rough-rides-20150423-story.html#page=1

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-baltimore-rough-rides-20150501-story.html#page=1

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...istory-of-accidentally-killing-its-perps.html

And plenty of other articles...as a such a police expert on defending cops, I'm sure you already knew about this right? Since this is a not uncommon practice in Baltimore and elsewhere.Right?

Oh, don't forget this article as well:

http://fox59.com/2015/05/11/new-rep...altimore-arrestees-too-injured-to-enter-jail/

Seems like a lot of people get "accidentally" injured going to jail and have to go to the hospital instead. Over 2,600 in just under 3 years.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I have a feeling that Baltimore will burn again in late October/early November. I suspect there will acquittals for all charges against the 6 officers.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...sanctions-evidence-20150730-story.html#page=1

Defense says prosecutors withholding evidence Freddie Gray 'attempted to injure himself' in previous arrest

In their filing Thursday, the defense attorneys said prosecutors have withheld "multiple witness statements from individuals who stated that Mr. Gray was banging and shaking the van at various points" after his arrest April 12, as well as "police reports, court records, and witness statements indicating that on prior occasions, Mr. Gray had fled from police and attempted to discard drugs."

The defense attorneys also said that Mosby failed to disclose her office's participation in a "private meeting" with Assistant Medical Examiner Carol Allan before receiving Gray's autopsy report, which ruled his death a homicide.

Witness statements that Gray was kneeling at the fifth stop of the van, for instance, "would tend to prove that Mr. Gray's spinal fracture had not yet occurred and therefore would tend to prove the innocence of some, if not all, of the officers involved," they wrote

 

[werepossum]

I have a feeling that Baltimore will burn again in late October/early November. I suspect there will acquittals for all charges against the 6 officers.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...sanctions-evidence-20150730-story.html#page=1

While certainly relevant, that would not tend to prove the innocence of the officer(s) with the responsibility to secure Mr. Gray for his own protection. I doubt the officer(s) could reasonably be expected to know about that, but if not it has no effect and if they did, it would be a strike against him/them.

 

[Genx87]

I have a feeling that Baltimore will burn again in late October/early November. I suspect there will acquittals for all charges against the 6 officers.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...sanctions-evidence-20150730-story.html#page=1

Says the defense attorney.