Free copy of Holy Qur'an

[RideFree]

Originally posted by: bf1942
Great Links
this kinda sums up the difference's well

Conclusion

This study shows us that non-Muslims are not regarded as citizens by any Islamic state, even if they are original natives of the land. To say otherwise is to conceal the truth. Justice and equality require that any Christian Pakistani, Melanesian, Turk, or Arab be treated as any other citizen of his own country. He deserves to enjoy the same privileges of citizenship regardless of religious affiliation. To claim that Islam is the true religion and to accuse other religions of infidelity is a social, religious and legal offense against the People of the Book.

Christians believe that their religion is the true religion of God and Islam is not. Does that mean that Great Britain, which is headed by a Queen, the head of the Anglican Church, should treat its Muslim subjects as a second class? Moreover, why do Muslims in the West enjoy all freedoms allotted to all citizens of these lands, while Muslim countries do not allow native Christians the same freedom? Muslims in the West build mosques, schools, and educational centers and have access to the media without any restriction. They publicly advertise their activities and are allowed to distribute their Islamic materials freely, while native Christians of any Islamic country are not allowed to do so. Why are Christians in the West allowed to embrace any religion they wish without persecution while a person who chooses to convert to another religion in any Islamic country, is considered an apostate and must be killed if he persists in his apostasy? These questions and others are left for readers to ponder.

LET FREEDOM RING

 

[sapiens74]

Can we talk about something less heated like Politics?

 

[RideFree]

Originally posted by: AStar617
... and unfortunately I haven't found the Four Vedas of Hinduism or any of the key Buddist texts yet.

These are easily downloadable as part of the Gutenberg Project.
I have them on my Palm.

 

[Jave]

Originally posted by: bf1942
Great Links
this kinda sums up the difference's well

Conclusion

This study shows us that non-Muslims are not regarded as citizens by any Islamic state, even if they are original natives of the land. To say otherwise is to conceal the truth. Justice and equality require that any Christian Pakistani, Melanesian, Turk, or Arab be treated as any other citizen of his own country. He deserves to enjoy the same privileges of citizenship regardless of religious affiliation. To claim that Islam is the true religion and to accuse other religions of infidelity is a social, religious and legal offense against the People of the Book.

Christians believe that their religion is the true religion of God and Islam is not. Does that mean that Great Britain, which is headed by a Queen, the head of the Anglican Church, should treat its Muslim subjects as a second class? Moreover, why do Muslims in the West enjoy all freedoms allotted to all citizens of these lands, while Muslim countries do not allow native Christians the same freedom? Muslims in the West build mosques, schools, and educational centers and have access to the media without any restriction. They publicly advertise their activities and are allowed to distribute their Islamic materials freely, while native Christians of any Islamic country are not allowed to do so. Why are Christians in the West allowed to embrace any religion they wish without persecution while a person who chooses to convert to another religion in any Islamic country, is considered an apostate and must be killed if he persists in his apostasy? These questions and others are left for readers to ponder.

I went to a Catholic school for 6 years in Pakistan (they seperate girls from boys after sixth grade) and lived in a small town of about 250,000 people with two Churches. The Christians were allowed take Ethics courses instead of Islamic courses in my other school. But in USA I went to a private and Church associated school and had to Bible courses without any choice

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: bf1942
Great Links
this kinda sums up the difference's well

Conclusion

This study shows us that non-Muslims are not regarded as citizens by any Islamic state, even if they are original natives of the land. To say otherwise is to conceal the truth. Justice and equality require that any Christian Pakistani, Melanesian, Turk, or Arab be treated as any other citizen of his own country. He deserves to enjoy the same privileges of citizenship regardless of religious affiliation. To claim that Islam is the true religion and to accuse other religions of infidelity is a social, religious and legal offense against the People of the Book.

Christians believe that their religion is the true religion of God and Islam is not. Does that mean that Great Britain, which is headed by a Queen, the head of the Anglican Church, should treat its Muslim subjects as a second class? Moreover, why do Muslims in the West enjoy all freedoms allotted to all citizens of these lands, while Muslim countries do not allow native Christians the same freedom? Muslims in the West build mosques, schools, and educational centers and have access to the media without any restriction. They publicly advertise their activities and are allowed to distribute their Islamic materials freely, while native Christians of any Islamic country are not allowed to do so. Why are Christians in the West allowed to embrace any religion they wish without persecution while a person who chooses to convert to another religion in any Islamic country, is considered an apostate and must be killed if he persists in his apostasy? These questions and others are left for readers to ponder.

yup, no concept of freedom of religion in islamic states like malaysia ..one of the more so called progressive states
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004672.php
In two controversial decisions this summer, Malaysia's courts refused to defend the rights of non-Muslims and of Muslims who want to leave Islam. In one case, the court ordered a Hindu woman to raise her children as Muslims after her ex-husband converted them to Islam without her permission. In the other, Malaysia's highest court refused to acknowledge the rights of four Kampung Batu 13 villagers to leave Islam. Instead, the justices upheld contempt-of-court rulings imposed by Muslim judges in a sharia (Islamic) court; lawyers for the four are petitioning the high court to reconsider its decision.

? Authorities banned Muslims from viewing the Mel Gibson film The Passion of the Christ this year, restricting showings to a handful of theaters. Tickets were sold through churches. (Even so, The Associated Press reported, 40,000 Malaysians saw the movie. Some Muslims bought tickets from Christian friends through the churches.)

? Islamic leaders are successfully fending off a campaign this year by women's and human rights groups seeking to criminalize marital rape. Muslim clerics and activists insist that Islam gives husbands the right to demand sex from their wives.

? The government last year stopped publication of a Christian Bible in Iban, the language of an indigenous Malaysian tribe, to prevent Christians from proselytizing.

Non-Muslims, who account for 40% of Malaysia's people, can worship freely. Unlike Muslims, however, they are forbidden from attempting to attract converts. And they sometimes run into official resistance when they want to open temples or churches. "Nobody has been told they can't go to their church," says Bridget Welsh, a Southeast Asia specialist at Johns Hopkins University. "They're told they can't take their church out and witness to other people."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-11-03-malaysia-islam_x.htm

 

[AStar617]

Originally posted by: RideFree

Originally posted by: AStar617
... and unfortunately I haven't found the Four Vedas of Hinduism or any of the key Buddist texts yet.

These are easily downloadable as part of the Gutenberg Project.
I have them on my Palm.

As stated before, I was looking for free bound hardcopies, as in physical books. For some reason, I prefer having something tangible for old/important/philosophical/religious texts. My current hardcover read is Sun Tzu's "The Art of War"

 

[AStar617]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
doesn't this count as proselytizing:? isn't advertising not ok in hot deals?

Exactly who is proselytizing here? For the nth time, I'm not Muslim, nor do I currently plan to be. Regardless of your faith, this is recognized as a historic and important text, one that is often referenced these days but often misunderstood. All I offered was a chance to anyone to have it in its entirely for their own reference.

I might add that your thread-crap response is much less ok here than my original post which has ZERO ulterior motives attached. :|

 

[bodhammer]

Originally posted by: Jave
It just makes me extremely sad that still to this day religous beliefs are being twisted by oppurtinists to harm others.

Well said!


Thanks OP - My wife and I were just talking about getting a copy so we could read and understand the differences and cut through all the FUD on multiple fronts.

 

[xiled]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

there is no real room for interpretation in islam. it was the word of god through mohammed. not some diciple scribbing away some time after like in others. you cannot argue with the literal word of god. and the words of god in islam is quite ugly. not to mention mohammed was not just the prophet, but leader of state and war. dangerously mixing religion/military/state from day one. the extremists will always have a concrete case. and any moderates(aka bad muslims) will spend their time desperately grasping at straws trying to explain away absurdities of the scripture.

My first post here. I have scanned these forums for quite a while now, but seeing this post forces me to make an account. Well, I wanted one before anyway, but never took the time.

First of all, I am a Muslim, and I am very happy to be one. Am I a fundamentalist? Yes. Now, before you call the FBI on me, take the time to learn the meaning of that word.

A fundamentalist is one who, quite naturally, belives in the fundamentals of something. In this case, it's religion. So any 'good' Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, or whatever else I left out will be a fundamentalist. The word this STUPID media is looking for but purposely replacing is 'extremist.' That means taking something to the extreme.

I've most of this thread, and I've seen that many people really don't know what Islam is about. All they know is from the media, and that's not enough to make a judgement.

I'll start with this misguided quote. You were right. The Qur'an is the literal word of God, sent down to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) through the angel Gabriel. The words of Islam are not ugly at all. They have brought me to the verge of tears MANY, MANY times. Others more devout and sincere than my self cry excessively over this text. Maybe you should find out why. Moderate (aka bad muslims)? If you knew about this religion, you would know that we are commanded to be 'middle of the road.' Extremism is FORBIDDEN. PERIOD.

Those people who you are referring to as trying to explain the 'absurdities of the scripture' are most likely as poorly uninformed as you. That is the problem with us (Muslims) today. Many of us don't even know what the religion is about. The media teaches Muslims who they are. What a sad state...

As for the person who
/sarcasm

brilliantly quoted the Qur'an, using ellipses as his weapon,

/sarcasm off

here is my answer to you. As someone who has read the Qur'an and memorized much of it, I have a good grasp upon the subjects metioned therein. Someone before me also realized that they were misquoted, and I salute him. We as Muslims, CANNOT, read it again, CANNOT attack innocent people. PERIOD!!@!@#!@ We CANNOT, again, CANNOT attack someone who has not attacked us! But quote it like the way that poster did, and wow, it looks rather evil. Please, quote the entire thing. Every time. Ellipses are used to shorten the quote, not change its meaning.

For anyone who would like to learn about the true Islam, please request the free Qur'an. I think I have this printing of it, and the footnotes explain many verses that the average Muslim (or non Muslim) would not have the means ot understand. For all of you who did request one, I sincerely thank you for taking the time to learn something else. You won't be disappointed. Please, while you read it, keep an open mind. For all of you who disrespect the Qur'an, fine. Just know I don't disrespect yours.

 

[AStar617]

Thank you VERY much for the insight, xiled. :thumbsup:

 

[morkus64]

Originally posted by: iluv2sin
Here's a little known fact for you "good Christians" out there who hate anyone of the Muslim faith:

YOU'RE WORSHIPPING THE SAME GOD!

That's right... the Muslim faith is a Christian-based faith, just like Catholics, Protestants, and Jews. The main difference is they believe that Jesus was just another prophet and not the son of the God. They believe another prophet, Mohammed, was really God's messenger and they follow his writings, aka The Qur'an which, like the Bible, teaches peace and respect of others not death and destruction like many American's have been lead to believe.

You're close, but not quite right... Islam and Judaism aren't Christian-based faiths... Judaism was the first organized monotheistic religion. Christianity developed as a sect of Judaism and were still considered Jews for quite a while until Christianity came into its own. Islam was born in the early 7th century with the revelations of Muhammed. Islam was based on Judaism and Christianity (as I will describe below), but at the time of its creation, most Arabs followed polytheistic religions, though some did follow Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism.

One can view Judaism, Christianity and Islam as such:

Judaism laid down the law.
Jesus Christ, with the belief that the Jewish community had lost its way, promoted the spirit of the law over the letter of the law.
Islam suggests that Moses and Jesus (as well as Adam, Noah and Abraham - + 21 others (not including Muhammed) who are mentioned in the Qur'an, and numerous others not mentioned - According to the Qur'an, God has sent a messenger to every people) were prophets. Muhammed is the last of the prophets and presents the same basic belief, only refined.

If anyone is interested, I can also tell you about the Bahá'í Faith, which is, in some sense, the next step in the progression.

As for the rude comments people have made, I suggest that you keep your opinions to yourself or even better, educate yourself. I believe you will find that you are terribly misguided. Every faith, of course, has those who distort the message to fulfill their own desires. What better example in the Christian faith than the Crusades? There are, in fact, distortions of the core Christian message all around - televangelism, anyone?

For those who have read this far and may be curious, I consider myself to be a Buddhist Jew - Jewish by culture and in the most basic sense of monotheism, and Buddhist in a more philisophical manner.

 

[morkus64]

Originally posted by: xiled
The words of Islam are not ugly at all. They have brought me to the verge of tears MANY, MANY times. Others more devout and sincere than my self cry excessively over this text.

Xiled - After reading the Qur'an in English, we (my class) listened to it in Arabic. I have to say, I didn't understand a word, but something in the passion and sincerity of the words had a profound effect upon me. It is undoubtedly one of the most beautiful things I have ever experienced.

Also, in the name of peace, as a Jew to a Muslim, I'd like to extend a sort of digital handshake to you. Best wishes.


Oh, and welcome to Anandtech! I hope this thread doesn't turn you against the anandtech community. Most of us are quite decent people, but there are a few bad eggs, unfortunately.

 

[xiled]

Thanks AStar617. My pleasure.
Well said morkus64. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are considered Abrahamic faiths, meaning they are following the same line of prophets after Abraham.

On a side note, interestingly enough, one of my high school teachers is exactly like you: Jewish by culture and Buddhist by philosophy. Kinda cool.

 

[morkus64]

I've discovered that there are actually a fair number of Buddhist-Jews... the Rabbinical community and the Tibetan community actually have very interesting dialouges going on. I personally feel a very special relationship between myself and Tibetans. So many Tibetans have suffered and died under Chinese persecution... now there are less than 6 million Tibetans in the world. 6 million, by the way, happens to be the number of Jews who dies in World War II.

 

[xiled]

Wow, this is getting interesting. First,

/handshake morkus64.

The teacher I was referring to is always referring to freeing Tibet from China's oppressive government. Makes a lot more sense to me know. Thanks.

 

[unclebabar]

Originally posted by: cmccrkn
Thanks, OP. Ironically, I was watching the news last nite and thinking "I need to read the text of the Qur'an to understand muslims better. Now I have an opportunity.

Well, reading this might make understand moderate Muslims better, as I'm guessing this is a translation (which if I recall correctly, is already a no-no to strict interpreters).

As for understanding the rational of "terrorists", they kill for the same reasons anybody else kills. Somebody claimed somebody else was the enemy (for reasons real or perceived) and so they fight.

Personally I have read some parts of the Koran (Penguin Classics edition?) and have found it as about as boring as the Bible.

 

[xiled]

Lol. I admire the interest unclebabar. I don't think the Penguin Classics would compare to this one. Yes, they are translations of the same text, but only some translators can come close to the effect that the acutal Arabic would give. Texts are better read in their original language, and much is lost in translation. This applies not only to religious books, but novels as well.

 

[AStar617]

Originally posted by: xiled
Lol. I admire the interest unclebabar. I don't think the Penguin Classics would compare to this one. Yes, they are translations of the same text, but only some translators can come close to the effect that the acutal Arabic would give. Texts are better read in their original language, and much is lost in translation. This applies not only to religious books, but novels as well.

On a quick aside, this was one of the most important considerations when I chose my particular edition of Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". The problem was, for so many years it had been used as a business school text that several recent translations had actually started to reflect that! The edition I have (don't have it here with me to identify) supposedly is very true to the roots of the literal translation without any form of idiomatic interpretation targeting a particular modern audience. Exactly what I was looking for.

 

[db]

Between peoples' chauvinism and "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality, it's hard to find civility in a so-called civilized world.
As long as people let others do their thinking for them, and are motivated by fear instead of reason, nobody will ever get along.
Apparently the way people think and act hasn't changed one bit since the Stone Age.

 

[rgreen83]

I think many could use a reality check by reading an historical account of the crusades from the 11th to 16th centuries, the most religiously intolerant times known to man. Guess who they were attacking? Islam predominately. By the way I consider myself to be a non denominational Christian for those conspiracy theorists out there. You cannot judge a religion by the men who carry out extreme acts in its name. I could easily be as close minded as some others here, I was raised Baptist in the heart of the Bible belt. But a few years ago I went to a major university and made friends with many other students from nearly every major religion known to man, I observed and a few times participated in these foreign (to me) religions to gain a greater understanding of them so as to make rational judgements on them. Guess what, 99% of all of them is the same, the few differences in each were merely carry-overs of old traditions usually established by governing bodys long ago. The single greatest lesson to learn from every one of them was simple, love thy neighbor unconditionally.

Thanks OP for the link, the amount of close mindedness by some is directly proportional to their need for open mindedness.

 

[unclebabar]

Originally posted by: xiled
Lol. I admire the interest unclebabar. I don't think the Penguin Classics would compare to this one. Yes, they are translations of the same text, but only some translators can come close to the effect that the acutal Arabic would give. Texts are better read in their original language, and much is lost in translation. This applies not only to religious books, but novels as well.

I agree, literature should be read in its original language if possible. I'll pass on this though. If I ever learn Arabic (not likely), I'd read the 1001 Nights first. I read an English translation of a French translation of an Arabic version of the text. The stories were pretty good, although some people might find some parts objectionable, but nothing you wouldn't find in Huckleberry Finn or Playboy.

 

[imported_Reflex]

This thread has gone from discouraging to inspiring. Thanks to xiled and morkus64 for raising the level of discussion. We need more people discussing rather than debating/arguing.

 

[rhacquer]

Originally posted by: junkerman123
This topic is about as close to being locked up as Mike Tyson

ROTFLOL!!! :laugh:

 

[jaysz]

Originally posted by: morkus64

Originally posted by: iluv2sin
Here's a little known fact for you "good Christians" out there who hate anyone of the Muslim faith:

YOU'RE WORSHIPPING THE SAME GOD!


It says inside the dome of the rock GOD IS NOT BEGOTTEN, the Bible says Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God and is God. We do not worship the same GOD my friend.

That's right... the Muslim faith is a Christian-based faith, just like Catholics, Protestants, and Jews. The main difference is they believe that Jesus was just another prophet and not the son of the God. They believe another prophet, Mohammed, was really God's messenger and they follow his writings, aka The Qur'an which, like the Bible, teaches peace and respect of others not death and destruction like many American's have been lead to believe.

You're close, but not quite right... Islam and Judaism aren't Christian-based faiths... Judaism was the first organized monotheistic religion.

Close but not accurate, God created the Jewish nation as a theocracy<governed by God> whereas religion stems from the latin ralen gare or to re-link, religion therefore is mans attempt to re-link with GOD.

Christianity developed as a sect of Judaism and were still considered Jews for quite a while until Christianity came into its own. Islam was born in the early 7th century with the revelations of Muhammed. Islam was based on Judaism and Christianity (as I will describe below), but at the time of its creation, most Arabs followed polytheistic religions, though some did follow Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism.

One can view Judaism, Christianity and Islam as such:

Judaism laid down the law.
Jesus Christ, with the belief that the Jewish community had lost its way, promoted the spirit of the law over the letter of the law.
Islam suggests that Moses and Jesus (as well as Adam, Noah and Abraham - + 21 others (not including Muhammed) who are mentioned in the Qur'an, and numerous others not mentioned - According to the Qur'an, God has sent a messenger to every people) were prophets. Muhammed is the last of the prophets and presents the same basic belief, only refined.

If anyone is interested, I can also tell you about the Bahá'í Faith, which is, in some sense, the next step in the progression.

As for the rude comments people have made, I suggest that you keep your opinions to yourself or even better, educate yourself. I believe you will find that you are terribly misguided. Every faith, of course, has those who distort the message to fulfill their own desires. What better example in the Christian faith than the Crusades? There are, in fact, distortions of the core Christian message all around - televangelism, anyone?

For those who have read this far and may be curious, I consider myself to be a Buddhist Jew - Jewish by culture and in the most basic sense of monotheism, and Buddhist in a more philisophical manner.

 

[imported_Kensai]

:thumbsup: