Free copy of Holy Qur'an

[anazoal]

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: anazoal

Originally posted by: Lurknomore
Sounds like proselytizing to me.
If anyone else did the same with the Bible, all hell (excuse the pun) would break loose.
"Historic and important text". A lot of atheists would disagree.

Note that he said "Historic and important text" and not Holy. Anything that affects history in such a manner is important and historic (by definition, since it's a part of history) The fact that you don't have the inclination to read, yet seem to be ready to pass judgment and spout information is disturbing.

It's a religious text, pure and simple. HOW do you NOT understand this?
What if I was a Mormon, said I was a Mormon and was offering a free Book of Mormons on this forum?
And claimed that it was a "historic and important"- very vague indeed- document? Heck, alot of people in Salt Lake City would agree that it is.
I think this place would denounce and trash it as proselytizing. So would I.

The fact that text is religious does not condom it to irrelevance. Even if it was pure fiction, the significant impact on humanity should be stimulation enough to read it (same goes for the Torah and Bible). I agree with you that this is a hot deals forum, and am trying to keep my arguments as to why the OP is a good, valid deal [edit: if I overstepped, then my apologies]. Anyway, let's move on to other deals.

 

[Lurknomore]

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

Well, you should be so lucky that you live in a country where you have the option of reading whatever religious text you choose and proudly proclaiming it in public. TRY doing that in some countries in the mideast.

And the FOX brothers- you can just shut them off.

 

[Lurknomore]

Originally posted by: anazoal

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: anazoal

Originally posted by: Lurknomore
Sounds like proselytizing to me.
If anyone else did the same with the Bible, all hell (excuse the pun) would break loose.
"Historic and important text". A lot of atheists would disagree.

Note that he said "Historic and important text" and not Holy. Anything that affects history in such a manner is important and historic (by definition, since it's a part of history) The fact that you don't have the inclination to read, yet seem to be ready to pass judgment and spout information is disturbing.

It's a religious text, pure and simple. HOW do you NOT understand this?
What if I was a Mormon, said I was a Mormon and was offering a free Book of Mormons on this forum?
And claimed that it was a "historic and important"- very vague indeed- document? Heck, alot of people in Salt Lake City would agree that it is.
I think this place would denounce and trash it as proselytizing. So would I.

The fact that text is religious does not condom it to irrelevance. Even if it was pure fiction, the significant impact on humanity should be stimulation enough to read it (same goes for the Torah and Bible). I agree with you that this is a hot deals forum, and am trying to keep my arguments as to why the OP is a good, valid deal. Anyway, let's move on to other deals.

Are you saying that if someone were offering a free Bible and Torah on this forum, that you wouldn't condemn it, but somehow encourage it? I doubt it, seriously doubt it.
Holy (excuse me) cow! Whoops, that's Hinduism...

 

[Lurknomore]

And I'll stop before any of my posts seem to flame others.
And my double posting-SHEESH?!?:disgust:

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

Well, you should be so lucky that you live in a country where you have the option of reading whatever religious text you choose and proudly proclaiming it in public. TRY doing that in some countries in the mideast.

And the FOX brothers- you can just shut them off.

who knows how long it will last, i shouldn't even have to worry about whether or not the fbi will be tracking me now since i requested the quran, but with the patriot act, they could and probably WOULD track me. fvckin ridiculous!

btw, i don't watch fox, but my dad can't stop watching it!

 

[anazoal]

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

Well, you should be so lucky that you live in a country where you have the option of reading whatever religious text you choose and proudly proclaiming it in public. TRY doing that in some countries in the mideast.

And the FOX brothers- you can just shut them off.

Okay, i had to respond since there's misinformation here. With the exception of Saudi Arabia, Mideast countries have a significant non-muslim (Christian, Jewish) population or expatriates (Christian, Hindi), so religious freedom is not an issue. However, if you had said a lack of freedom (as a generalization) then I would agree with you.

 

[Lurknomore]

Originally posted by: KidViciou$

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

Well, you should be so lucky that you live in a country where you have the option of reading whatever religious text you choose and proudly proclaiming it in public. TRY doing that in some countries in the mideast.

And the FOX brothers- you can just shut them off.

who knows how long it will last, i shouldn't even have to worry about whether or not the fbi will be tracking me now since i requested the quran, but with the patriot act, they could and probably WOULD track me. fvckin ridiculous!

btw, i don't watch fox, but my dad can't stop watching it!

Stupid Firefox, I didn't get the second of your replies until I opened the reply box.
Hehe, I watch FOX too, but only to get a glimpse of their hottie "reporter" babes.
Julie Banderas, I want to have your baby!:laugh:

 

[Lurknomore]

Originally posted by: anazoal

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

Well, you should be so lucky that you live in a country where you have the option of reading whatever religious text you choose and proudly proclaiming it in public. TRY doing that in some countries in the mideast.

And the FOX brothers- you can just shut them off.

Okay, i had to respond since there's misinformation here. With the exception of Saudi Arabia, Mideast countries have a significant non-muslim (Christian, Jewish) population or expatriates (Christian, Hindi), so religious freedom is not an issue. However, if you had said a lack of freedom (as a generalization) then I would agree with you.

The LACK of freedom is the real issue.
Oh sure- Egypt, Pakistan, maybe Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Syria- they may all have their religious minorities. But do they really have a voice? And do they dare even make a semi-spectacle of themselves in public?
Heck, here at least, the Wiccans, Scientologists, Kabbalists, Branch-Davidians- err, maybe not them, thanks Janet- can proclaims themselves a religion and proudly show it. Not sure it that's all good anyways.

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: KidViciou$

Originally posted by: Lurknomore

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

Well, you should be so lucky that you live in a country where you have the option of reading whatever religious text you choose and proudly proclaiming it in public. TRY doing that in some countries in the mideast.

And the FOX brothers- you can just shut them off.

who knows how long it will last, i shouldn't even have to worry about whether or not the fbi will be tracking me now since i requested the quran, but with the patriot act, they could and probably WOULD track me. fvckin ridiculous!

btw, i don't watch fox, but my dad can't stop watching it!

Stupid Firefox, I didn't get the second of your replies until I opened the reply box.
Hehe, I watch FOX too, but only to get a glimpse of their hottie "reporter" babes.
Julie Banderas, I want to have your baby!:laugh:

well maybe i watch fox just to catch headlines, but i flip equally between fox, msnbc, and cnn

i only catch the commentary in passing, like when my dad is watching and i hear something that catches my interest because i know those talking heads are gonna say something stupid

 

[xiled]

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

I'm really glad to see that you're still cool with requesting one. You're very right, unfortunately. These are sad times indeed. But you and those like you are beacons of reason and tolerance in a sky of hatred. That definitely commands some respect.

 

[xiled]

Can you disprove that those hateful verses are not in the Qur'an?

Like anzoal pointed out, someone did comment on this. If you missed my first post, here's the part dealing with quotes:

As for the person who
/sarcasm

brilliantly quoted the Qur'an, using ellipses as his weapon,

/sarcasm off

here is my answer to you. As someone who has read the Qur'an and memorized much of it, I have a good grasp upon the subjects metioned therein. Someone before me also realized that they were misquoted, and I salute him. We as Muslims, CANNOT, read it again, CANNOT attack innocent people. PERIOD!!@!@#!@ We CANNOT, again, CANNOT attack someone who has not attacked us! But quote it like the way that poster did, and wow, it looks rather evil. Please, quote the entire thing. Every time. Ellipses are used to shorten the quote, not change its meaning.

Further evidence of this can be found when studying the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) <-----we Muslims always say this after his name and the names of other prophets including Jesus, Moses, and Abraham just in case someone was wondering

When he first returned to his city of Makkah with the first revelations, he was severly persecuted. The first Muslims were tortured horrifically (I'd rather not go into it, but think medieval tortures) until Muhammad (PBUH) escaped to Medina with some followers because he feared for the fledgling religion. The religion was much more welcome there, and it prospered. After many years and many events (kept out for sake of time), he defeated a Makkan army that broke its peace treaty. When Muhammad (PBUH) and his army approached Makkah, its inhabitants expected to be slaughtered. They knew full well the torture they had once inflicted upon him and his followers. They were ready to die. But, it didn't turn out like that. They were all forgiven, and nothing was asked of them, and no harm was done. THIS is the true Islam. Not what those crazy fanatics out there are doing in the name of this religion.

If you have any questions, please post. I'd be more than happy to answer them. I agree this is turning into a discussion, but the deal still exists =). Most people only go to the first page anyway.

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: xiled

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

I'm really glad to see that you're still cool with requesting one. You're very right, unfortunately. These are sad times indeed. But you and those like you are beacons of reason and tolerance in a sky of hatred. That definitely commands some respect.

i am fervent when it comes to tolerance, and civil liberties, as well as our constitution. when things like these come under attack, i become irate in the sense that i want to disect arguments against it, and will not stop until the attacking ideas are worthless!

 

[TrueWisdom]

Xiled--as one Muslim to another, thank you. I have done my fair share of posting to try and dispel the ignorance that runs rampant in America (and in most Western countries) surrounding Islam, and it is always comforting to find another doing the same.

As was mentioned earlier, those "hateful" verses were taken out of context. The Qur'an explicitly forbids forced conversion of Christians or Jews; they are considered to be fellow believers in God. An "unbeliever" is not a Christian or a Jew; it is a.) someone who hypocritically proclaims faith in Islam, or b.) a polytheist. In fact, there is so much falsity surrounding just the term "jihad" in America that it's unbelievable. Contrary to popular belief, it does not mean "holy war." It means "struggle," and in the Qur'an it is used chiefly to describe a person's INNER struggle with evil.

I chose Islam as my faith because it is by far the most tolerant and peaceful religion I've ever come across. It does not close the doors of heaven to anyone who lives a good life. No other religion offers that sort of tolerance. (As a side note, the "virgins" passage is also one that is constantly misquoted. In fact, most conceptions of Islamic heaven and Islamic court are manifestations of perverted European fantasies--there were no harems resembling that which the French and the British documented.) Furthermore, what people fail to realize is that while the Qur'an is the word of God, most terrorists pull their fuel from are the had'iths, which are much more suspect. They are not perfect, but are instead supposedly what the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said and did during his life. I put much less stock in the had'iths because they were not imparted by God.

To the person who said that Muslims and Christians don't worship the same God, stop believing the bull you read about the "moon god." It's a complete lie. The word Allah means "truth." It was the word that Arab Christians used to refer to God; same with Arab Jews. The moon and the star have become the symbol of Islam because of the month of Ramadan. If you read the Qur'an and realized that Muhammad (PBUH) was an illiterate orphan for most of his life--and that, even with this ignorance, he was able to recite the history of both Abrahamic traditions--you would see that he is describing the exact same God.

And finally, no one has any right to talk about lack of freedom in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or ANY foreign country unless they've been there. I've been to the Middle East numerous times and I can assure you that it is corruption, NOT Islam, that is holding them back. My kingdom for a school system that teaches global history properly.

 

[11thHour]

This is a good thread to help break in a new mod.

 

[Frodolives]

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm expecting my dad to blow a gasket because he'll think i'll end up on some terrorist watch list when finds out i requested a quran. what sad times we live in

and people like bill o'reilly and sean hannity don't help, but rather help to fan the flames.

Tell me about it! Once I donated a buck to a community organization at a coffee house, ostensibly to help them rebuild their community center in a poor neighborhood, and wound up being subscribed to the African People's Socialist Party, complete with complimentary copy of "The Burning Spear."

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: TrueWisdom
Xiled--as one Muslim to another, thank you. I have done my fair share of posting to try and dispel the ignorance that runs rampant in America (and in most Western countries) surrounding Islam, and it is always comforting to find another doing the same.

As was mentioned earlier, those "hateful" verses were taken out of context. The Qur'an explicitly forbids forced conversion of Christians or Jews; they are considered to be fellow believers in God. An "unbeliever" is not a Christian or a Jew; it is a.) someone who hypocritically proclaims faith in Islam, or b.) a polytheist. In fact, there is so much falsity surrounding just the term "jihad" in America that it's unbelievable. Contrary to popular belief, it does not mean "holy war." It means "struggle," and in the Qur'an it is used chiefly to describe a person's INNER struggle with evil.

I chose Islam as my faith because it is by far the most tolerant and peaceful religion I've ever come across. It does not close the doors of heaven to anyone who lives a good life. No other religion offers that sort of tolerance. (As a side note, the "virgins" passage is also one that is constantly misquoted. In fact, most conceptions of Islamic heaven and Islamic court are manifestations of perverted European fantasies--there were no harems resembling that which the French and the British documented.) Furthermore, what people fail to realize is that while the Qur'an is the word of God, most terrorists pull their fuel from are the had'iths, which are much more suspect. They are not perfect, but are instead supposedly what the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said and did during his life. I put much less stock in the had'iths because they were not imparted by God.

To the person who said that Muslims and Christians don't worship the same God, stop believing the bull you read about the "moon god." It's a complete lie. The word Allah means "truth." It was the word that Arab Christians used to refer to God; same with Arab Jews. The moon and the star have become the symbol of Islam because of the month of Ramadan. If you read the Qur'an and realized that Muhammad (PBUH) was an illiterate orphan for most of his life--and that, even with this ignorance, he was able to recite the history of both Abrahamic traditions--you would see that he is describing the exact same God.

And finally, no one has any right to talk about lack of freedom in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or ANY foreign country unless they've been there. I've been to the Middle East numerous times and I can assure you that it is corruption, NOT Islam, that is holding them back. My kingdom for a school system that teaches global history properly.

can yo utell me about the forced muslim conversions of hindus? people perceive hinduism as a polytheistic idol worshipping religion when in reality there is 1 god that has different manifestations not unlike the christian father, son, and the holy spirit, AND is no more idol worshipping than christianity with the cross?

 

[0roo0roo]

you must be joking. islam is certainly holding places like saudia arabia and iran back. its where women have no rights at all and live under a gender apartheid that is brutal and dehumanizing and are prisoners in their own homes, and where freedom of conscience doesn't exist at all. you speak of christians and jews? 2nd class citizenship at best. atheist agnostics? hah..you'd be lucky not to be expelled or murdered. of course you'd leave the rest of the religions and belief systems out, you know what islam thinks of them and its ugly. and its rather disturbing. iran is run by a religious leader ruling over a puppet sham democratic government. there are religious police controlling all aspects of life. oppressing all. its ALL based on religion. the religious police beating a woman for not wearing her head scarf arent corrupt. if they were corrupt they'd be asking for a bribe. instead they are doing it for the faith. sugar coat it all you want, their laws are based on religion and are simply barbaric. for instance in pakistan one only has to accuse you of saying bad things about islam and you can get the death penalty. http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/A/apostasy.html
http://hrw.org/editorials/2002/women0822.htm
http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9000
http://answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol1/8d.html
and don't even get me started on homosexuals and islam...
in saudi arabia men get flogged and worse for "acting like women".. http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/07/saudia10434.htm