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IshmaelLeaver

Golden Member
Feb 19, 2001
1,519
0
0
The only fair tax plan is a flat tax... imagine how simple (and fair!) that would be. But, do you ever hear of any candidates talking about this? No - they want to play the percentage games for more votes.

And then there is the amount of money saved by drastically reducing the IRS, etc, ...

"Monday, September 06, 2004
By Mike Allen, The Washington Post

PARKERSBURG, W. Va. -- President Bush continued his call yesterday for a simpler tax system and aides said he is considering a flat tax, which have the same income-tax rate for most taxpayers, as a major priority if he were to win a second term."

Is a flat tax really fair? Very poor people would be taxed at the same rate as the obscenely rich. Poor people also tend to spend close to 100% of their income, while rich people spend a lower percentage. When you look at the big picture, wouldn't poor people actually be paying more taxes (in terms of % of income) than the rich?

Just something to think about...
 

boo

Junior Member
Apr 24, 2004
1
0
0
Originally posted by: sat4fun

I will keep it up till it is locked. Kerry will have won by then.


Just looking quickly through this thread and realized Sat4fun what an ass you are for using the "dead soldiers" of the US forces for your polical influence (SIG). You are the epitome of someone who seems to care but will use any methods possible to gain stance even if it's putting down our soldiers who fought and died in this war and any war for that matter. You have no clue what those solders had on their mind when they were fighting and died for America.
 

IsoLate

Junior Member
Oct 26, 2004
13
0
0
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
I went to Moore's rally today.. he's great!
I did as well. It was the second most entertaining portion of my day. It was only rivaled by seeing corinthos humiliate himself. Moore is an entertaining and talented pubic speaker who was much more seasoned and certainly more of a natural comedian than his sidekick Rosanne. I was able to entice a female Bush supporter into joining me in trade for one song performed by the Goo Goo Dolls.
 

wallsfd949

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2003
1,002
0
0
Originally posted by: sat4fun
Bush, 24 more hours till you are offically a lame duck. Maybe you can go on vacation. I'ts been hard work.

Please take all your sh!t back to P&N where it belongs.

You have made this - at one point cival thread - a worthless pile of crap. I feel like I stepped out of Hot Deals and into the twilight zone. Please stop bumping what belongs in P&N.

What does your above statement have to do with the Farenheit 9.11 movie at all? Take it to P&N where you will fit in and not be an a$$ hole.
 

jodhas

Senior member
Aug 5, 2001
834
0
0
Originally posted by: kctopitz
It seems to me that if you want to personally discredit any movie, the only fair way to do so is to see it for yourself. At least here there's an opportunity to do so knowing that you won't be giving any money to Michael Moore.

Here we are, surfing the net on our broadband internet connections looking for the next "hot deal" which is probably something we don't even need, while our nation's young men and women are at putting their lives on the line each day in a far away land. I think the least I can do is spend 2 hours watching a movie which simply asks why. I think I owe those who have died for this country at least that much. I can make up my own mind regarding what I see.

According to your logic boycott would never work.
Your argument is diametrically oppossed.
Boycott is a boycott, it isnt' a boycott if you 'try' and decide to boycott it afterwards.
Whole point is to make a statement by not buying (or watching) his product in the first place.

Any sane and reasonable adult would distance himself from such extremists like Michael Moore.

 

CasmirRadon

Member
Aug 24, 2004
118
0
0
Originally posted by: Monotaur

Can you explain what you mean by "And you do realize that extremely extremely rich people pay relatively LESS in taxes than you do?"? This doesn't make any sense. And, even if it did, no proposed tax plan would EVER fix that. Will it matter, (all fairness aside), if Kerry raises the tax for the highest of brackets? No, because they do not pay taxes based off of this income - they hide it by buying rental houses and depreciating them, etc, and then paying taxes on what is left over. The only fair tax plan is a flat tax... imagine how simple (and fair!) that would be. But, do you ever hear of any candidates talking about this? No - they want to play the percentage games for more votes.

And then there is the amount of money saved by drastically reducing the IRS, etc, ...

My thoughts might be a little jarbled on this subject, and I'm getting a bit tired of this thread, but I don't want to run away without replying.

There are many reasons why the top 10, 5, 1 percent of richest Americans pay less (relatively) than lower classes. Part of it is because their wealth is tied up in capitol instead of yearly income. It is far easier to decrease taxes on capitol without anyone (but the rich) knowing about it, because people like us probably don't have any to speak of. And when I talk about capitol I mean houses, stocks, land, things like that. Lots of people who aren't rich do own houses... but there is another hidden truth with that too. See rich people, who own giant houses recieve big subsidies, and make enough money just through subsidies to finance an entire lower class family. Meanwhile, average American house owners have to get a second mortgage, which means they are mostly paying interest, which means they don't own any capitol, which probably means they will default on their loan (more and more common), and guess what? Rich people invest in mortgages, so they make money when you lose it.

Remember the death tax? Well it is actually called the estate tax, it was one of the most fair and useful taxes to ever exist. It would have never applied to anyone who was not super wealthy (it didn't apply to estates that were worth less than several million dollars) and it taxed people a fair amount for them. This was to get some money back when rich people put all their income into giant estates, then pass it on to their children tax free.

I remember reading last year about how the green party wanted a flat tax, but that is just because the top percent of rich people were actually paying a SMALLER percentage of their income than poor people.

Here is a trick question. I make a million dollars a year. You make $14,000 a year (the poverty level). We both pay 10% tax.... which of us is going to have trouble buying dinner some months?

Here's a thought. Maybe people that are officially classified as living in poverty (to be realistic the figure should probably be closer to $20,000 a year) shouldn't have to pay taxes. Why kick them when their down? I mean, doesn't it help enough that they are willing to work in horrible jobs, for horrible pay, probably without overtime, for huge amounts of hours each week... and have almost nothing to show for it? I mean, that is how the wealthy make their money right? It wouldn't be so great if suddenly no one wanted to work all those thousands of "unskilled" jobs.

Ouch, if I'm long-winded, you should know it is because I'm putting off an essay. Time to get back to college (and write a sociological paper about the declining middle-class).
 

Empire_DNH

Senior member
Dec 2, 1999
307
0
0
Originally posted by: phoenixstar
Don't know about you, but I got a tax rebate check after Bush was elected.
man, take your Bush money back.

Please, be honest to tell me that what can you do with $400?

look at the gas price, the health care & the job market

I have a wife and three kids. Tell me.
Back in before 2000 we have a lot of jobs opening (everywhere) but now we have no jobs (zit nothing).

Don't send the rebate check instead Bush need to do his job by leading the economy (like the NASDAQ back to 5000) but he failed therefore rebate check aren?t cut it.

I was worried way less back then compare to now.

We are the working classes that suffer but not those rich people.

Please take your rebate check and go elsewhere.

Btw, my brother and sister-in-law all graduated EE/CS but until today still jobless. Thanks to B.

;(
 

Monotaur

Senior member
Nov 5, 2001
388
0
0
Originally posted by: CasmirRadon
Originally posted by: Monotaur

Can you explain what you mean by "And you do realize that extremely extremely rich people pay relatively LESS in taxes than you do?"? This doesn't make any sense. And, even if it did, no proposed tax plan would EVER fix that. Will it matter, (all fairness aside), if Kerry raises the tax for the highest of brackets? No, because they do not pay taxes based off of this income - they hide it by buying rental houses and depreciating them, etc, and then paying taxes on what is left over. The only fair tax plan is a flat tax... imagine how simple (and fair!) that would be. But, do you ever hear of any candidates talking about this? No - they want to play the percentage games for more votes.

And then there is the amount of money saved by drastically reducing the IRS, etc, ...

My thoughts might be a little jarbled on this subject, and I'm getting a bit tired of this thread, but I don't want to run away without replying.

There are many reasons why the top 10, 5, 1 percent of richest Americans pay less (relatively) than lower classes. Part of it is because their wealth is tied up in capitol instead of yearly income. It is far easier to decrease taxes on capitol without anyone (but the rich) knowing about it, because people like us probably don't have any to speak of. And when I talk about capitol I mean houses, stocks, land, things like that. Lots of people who aren't rich do own houses... but there is another hidden truth with that too. See rich people, who own giant houses recieve big subsidies, and make enough money just through subsidies to finance an entire lower class family. Meanwhile, average American house owners have to get a second mortgage, which means they are mostly paying interest, which means they don't own any capitol, which probably means they will default on their loan (more and more common), and guess what? Rich people invest in mortgages, so they make money when you lose it.

Remember the death tax? Well it is actually called the estate tax, it was one of the most fair and useful taxes to ever exist. It would have never applied to anyone who was not super wealthy (it didn't apply to estates that were worth less than several million dollars) and it taxed people a fair amount for them. This was to get some money back when rich people put all their income into giant estates, then pass it on to their children tax free.

I remember reading last year about how the green party wanted a flat tax, but that is just because the top percent of rich people were actually paying a SMALLER percentage of their income than poor people.

Here is a trick question. I make a million dollars a year. You make $14,000 a year (the poverty level). We both pay 10% tax.... which of us is going to have trouble buying dinner some months?

Here's a thought. Maybe people that are officially classified as living in poverty (to be realistic the figure should probably be closer to $20,000 a year) shouldn't have to pay taxes. Why kick them when their down? I mean, doesn't it help enough that they are willing to work in horrible jobs, for horrible pay, probably without overtime, for huge amounts of hours each week... and have almost nothing to show for it? I mean, that is how the wealthy make their money right? It wouldn't be so great if suddenly no one wanted to work all those thousands of "unskilled" jobs.

Ouch, if I'm long-winded, you should know it is because I'm putting off an essay. Time to get back to college (and write a sociological paper about the declining middle-class).


Well, first of all, there is no tax on "captitol" that you have already aquired.. and capitol isn't a house, a stock, or land.. those things are assets. And even then they are only taxed when you sell them (as either long term or short term (ie, "income tax") capitol gains - which affect everyone, wealthy or not, when you go to sell a house, etc).

And what subsidies are you referring to? I've never heard of a subsidy for the rich to buy a huge house! And, just because someone doesn't own stock or whatnot, doesn't mean they are going to have to get a second mortgage... and even then they aren't necessarily going to default. And what is to keep you from 'investing' in mortgages? Nothing.

Estate tax is _NOT_ "one of the most fair and useful taxes to ever exist"... it was a terrible law, and completely _UNFAIR_. Besides, even if it was meant to only apply to the super wealthy, it turns out that it doesn't (and only applies to the people who can barely be called "rich"). This is because the super-wealthy can afford to hide their money in trusts (or trusts within trusts within trusts...), therefore becoming exempt from the estate tax. What an aweful thing - there is no way the government should be entitled to x% of your welath upon your death...

And yes, it does seem that someone who makes 14K would have more trouble putting food on the table than someone making 100K or 1Million... so, why not say that you can keep 100% of anything up to 20K, but apply a flat tax of %15 on anything above that? And remove depreciation writeoffs, etc, so that the super wealthy (ie, Ross Perot) no longer buys rentals houses to lower his taxable income to a level where he pays _NO_ taxes.

There.. that's all I'm going to say. This is a Hot Deal thread, right?
 

sat4fun

Senior member
May 29, 2002
999
0
0
Originally posted by: boo
Originally posted by: sat4fun

I will keep it up till it is locked. Kerry will have won by then.


Just looking quickly through this thread and realized Sat4fun what an ass you are for using the "dead soldiers" of the US forces for your polical influence (SIG). You are the epitome of someone who seems to care but will use any methods possible to gain stance even if it's putting down our soldiers who fought and died in this war and any war for that matter. You have no clue what those solders had on their mind when they were fighting and died for America.

Don't give me the support the troops rap. Supporting the troops is not exclusively a GOP thing. Wanting the "war" brought to an end is the ultimate in troop support. Given the TRUTH, I am sure that I know what how the soldiers would vote. You are an ass to think that every soldier is willing to die for a worthless war.
 
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