Free Speech or Too Far?

[Atreus21]

Pictures from a recent photo shoot done by comedian Kathy Griffin show her holding a severed, bloody head that is supposed to be that of Trump.

Curious on thoughts of the good people of AT. Personally, this strikes me as a too far. If this were Obama I'm sure it would be called inappropriate by many.

Pics at link.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/30/kathy-griffin-beheads-donald-trump-photo-tyler-shields/

If it'd happened to Obama the entire nation would've ground to a halt.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

If it'd happened to Obama the entire nation would've ground to a halt.

Right. All the protesters with their mock Obama lynchings over the years just shut everything down. All those burning him in effigy collapsed all of society.

 

[Pens1566]

Again no surprise that American leftists embrace the hatred, violence and barbarity of the Muslim extremists in showing a beheaded image of President Trump. I'm sure ISIS can take the image and use it for their own purposes. 3 cheers for Hollywood, the media and the left.

Literally no one but Griffin is in support of this you jackwagon.

Were you condemning Ted Nugent over some of his more colorful statements about Obama? No? Then STFU.

 

[vi edit]

The beauty of freedom is that it isn't without consequences. She's free to do that. And people are free to verbally pummel the hell out of her for it. It goes both ways. She's b-level celeb constantly trying way too fucking hard for attention.

 

[Sea Ray]

What's really weak is her apology. She's apologizing to her fans but where's her apology to Trump and his family? They're the one's who deserve her apology.

 

[xthetenth]

Good timing. Here's a brand new example of "art" that has leftists/feminists in an absolute uproar, the "Pi$sing Pug". Since the girl disrespects (and misrepresents) the message of the bull statue, he figured one bad turn deserves another.

It's working... hypocrisy showing in spades.

Art is speech. Speech begets speech. Sometimes that speech is criticism. I'm sorry you have to learn this lesson so late, but it's better you learn it at all. I'm assuming that the limit of your exposure to culture is when you almost took a swig of bad milk, but here we go.

Plus the pug is a juvenile tantrum. It doesn't carry any meaning past "no, fuck you". The girl at least has a message of its own other than incoherently pissing on something without adding to the debate. It presents an alternative perspective on what the bull represents, and an implicit argument that while the bull was intended to represent the aspirations of Wall Street, it also represents an uglier truth.

If it'd happened to Obama the entire nation would've ground to a halt.

You say it like it's a hypothetical.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Both. I support Griffin's right to do that, but if she weren't a comedian, she'd probably be getting a knock on the door from the Secret Service. Hell, knowing Trump's I'd-ban-critical-speech-if-I-could mindset, I wouldn't be surprised if the Service shows up regardless.

Has nothing to do with Trump's paranoia. If you show signs of possibly wanting to murder the President the secret service is definitely going to show up to investigate. That's their job.

While she technically broke no laws, I'm left wondering where the line is. Maybe Trump is fair game as a political public figure, but would all the people saying it's okay say the same thing if it was a different person being beheaded. If Griffin beheading Trump is protected political parody what exactly is a high school student holding up an effigy severed head of a teacher or classmate he hates? If you create heads of all the kids in your neighborhood and place them on pikes surrounding your yard as a high concept stay off my lawn warning is it protected 1st amendment or a sign of a dangerous psycho?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

What's really weak is her apology. She's apologizing to her fans but where's her apology to Trump and his family? They're the one's who deserve her apology.

As a man who refuses to apologize to anyone for anything I don't think Trump is in a position to demand an apology from anyone.

 

[Atreus21]

You say it like it's a hypothetical.

When was Obama beheaded in effigy ISIS-style?

 

[Smoblikat]

Definitely protected free speech, definitely in poor taste. I wouldnt hold the disfugiured and removed head of any human up as a form of "comedy", thats just sadism.

 

[Sea Ray]

Seem pretty obvious there's a difference between putting some facist racist pandering shit's head on a spike vs., say, MLK's.

So it's OK to do this if it's Trump? At least you admit to the hypocrisy here

 

[Sea Ray]

As a man who refuses to apologize to anyone for anything I don't think Trump is in a position to demand an apology from anyone.

More hypocrisy. I love it! So as long as it's Trump, no apology is necessary. Different rules for Trump than Obama.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Free Speech...Although I find it crossing the line of decency..totally unacceptable for a sitting president. Looks like we have a washed up, nasty looking stand up comedian looking for attention and spotlight here.

 

[xthetenth]

When was Obama beheaded in effigy ISIS-style?

Oh, I see. We're playing semantics rather than actually engaging with things. There were actual literal directly stated threats on Obama's life. That's well past the level of quaint things like beheading in effigy (incidentally, what the hell does "ISIS-style" have to do with anything), or the scads of lynchings in effigy "KKK-style" (oh I see, it's so you don't have to engage with them) which only imply a threat of violence.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

More hypocrisy. I love it! So as long as it's Trump, no apology is necessary. Different rules for Trump than Obama.

Hypocrisy would be Trump demanding someone apologize to him which, in this situation, he has not. In a hypothetical situation he would be a hypocrite to request it given his refusal to ever apologize to anyone for the disgusting shit he has said.

 

[NesuD]

Well I have to admit that I would defend her right to do it under the first amendment. That said just because you can do or say something doesn't mean you should. I think she crossed the line on that one and now she will likely pay the price like so many other comedians who have crossed the line in the past. I see she has already started losing some spokesperson gigs and probably a significant number of fans as well. This is what happens when you act with little or no thought to what you are doing. Poor choice but she'll survive it. Things may just be a little slow for her for a while.

 

[Sea Ray]

Oh, I see. We're playing semantics rather than actually engaging with things. There were actual literal directly stated threats on Obama's life. That's well past the level of quaint things like beheading in effigy (incidentally, what the hell does "ISIS-style" have to do with anything), or the scads of lynchings in effigy "KKK-style" (oh I see, it's so you don't have to engage with them) which only imply a threat of violence.

Nobody's supporting those threats on Obama's life. Those folks should be caught and prosecuted. But here we have situations like Kathy Griffin and Madonna (thinking about blowing up the White House) and folks around here will come out and proclaim that such behavior is fine because it's Trump. That's at best hypocrisy folks and may even be mental illness. You've let Trump affect your sanity.

 

[Commodus]

Has nothing to do with Trump's paranoia. If you show signs of possibly wanting to murder the President the secret service is definitely going to show up to investigate. That's their job.

While she technically broke no laws, I'm left wondering where the line is. Maybe Trump is fair game as a political public figure, but would all the people saying it's okay say the same thing if it was a different person being beheaded. If Griffin beheading Trump is protected political parody what exactly is a high school student holding up an effigy severed head of a teacher or classmate he hates? If you create heads of all the kids in your neighborhood and place them on pikes surrounding your yard as a high concept stay off my lawn warning is it protected 1st amendment or a sign of a dangerous psycho?

I'd say this crossed the line (in terms of taste and baseline respect, not free speech laws). Many people have justifiable reasons to hate Trump, but you don't need to suggest beheading. At least Griffin was quick to apologize... now if only we could get the Ann Coulters and Sean Hannitys of the world to do the same.

 

[Atreus21]

Oh, I see. We're playing semantics rather than actually engaging with things. There were actual literal directly stated threats on Obama's life. That's well past the level of quaint things like beheading in effigy (incidentally, what the hell does "ISIS-style" have to do with anything), or the scads of lynchings in effigy "KKK-style" (oh I see, it's so you don't have to engage with them) which only imply a threat of violence.

I wonder if you remember this.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...-his-job-and-america-loses-its-sense-of-humor

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Nobody's supporting those threats on Obama's life. Those folks should be caught and prosecuted. But here we have situations like Kathy Griffin and Madonna (thinking about blowing up the White House) and folks around here will come out and proclaim that such behavior is fine because it's Trump. That's at best hypocrisy folks and may even be mental illness. You've let Trump affect your sanity.

That's a lot of straw you're throwing around. Where in this thread has anyone said it's OK because it's Trump. Other than your own assertion to me which really had nothing to do with what I actually said.

 

[Sea Ray]

Hypocrisy would be Trump demanding someone apologize to him which, in this situation, he has not. In a hypothetical situation he would be a hypocrite to request it given his refusal to ever apologize to anyone for the disgusting shit he has said.

So because Trump's a loser he doesn't deserve an apology from anyone ever. Sorry. There's no "sanity" in that take. Go get checked out for Trump derangement syndrome. Mental illness is covered under Obamacare

 

[Sea Ray]

That's a lot of straw you're throwing around. Where in this thread has anyone said it's OK because it's Trump. Other than your own assertion to me which really had nothing to do with what I actually said.

You said it yourself when you said that no apology was necessary to Trump.

 

[xthetenth]

Nobody's supporting those threats on Obama's life. Those folks should be caught and prosecuted. But here we have situations like Kathy Griffin and Madonna (thinking about blowing up the White House) and folks around here will come out and proclaim that such behavior is fine because it's Trump. That's at best hypocrisy folks and may even be mental illness. You've let Trump affect your sanity.

Nobody's supporting this either! You're not attempting to even read the words people say. Meanwhile, regarding Madonna, you'll note that there's a big gulf between saying "I thought about this but realized that it was ridiculous and unproductive" and Nugent saying "I want to do this". Your utter imperviousness to nuance doesn't make anybody else into hypocrites, sorry.

So because Trump's a loser he doesn't deserve an apology from anyone ever. Sorry. There's no "sanity" in that take. Go get checked out for Trump derangement syndrome. Mental illness is covered under Obamacare

Do unto others. It's apology worthy but someone who makes a policy of never apologizing is owed an apology less than more upstanding individuals.

 

[Thebobo]

Good timing. Here's a brand new example of "art" that has leftists/feminists in an absolute uproar, the "Pi$sing Pug". Since the girl disrespects (and misrepresents) the message of the bull statue, he figured one bad turn deserves another.

It's working... hypocrisy showing in spades.

FYI Your picture link is dead and your video link is dead.

 

[Thebobo]

Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, 3 cheers for Hollywood, the media and the left.

Hip hip hooray!