Free Vegetarian Starter Pack

[travler]

I am dumber for having read this thread.

I am even more convinced that our education systems need higher biology requirments.

 

[figgypower]

<<

What kind of kindergarten arguments are these?! The animal kingdom diet habits are formed from evolution and habitats. A tiger can't all of sudden eat plants when it's digestive system and teeth are geared for meat --- it's natural instincts are to hunt for food not forage!

Did you even looked at the vids? This is what vegans are protesting about: inhumane treatment. It's appalling what corporate greed-mongering business will do for a buck... >>



I might ask the same about your arguements. Evolution isn't a fact, it's just a theory (an interpretation based on available facts), and no I'm not
saying creationism is the asnwer. It's just tha you can't tout a non-fact as a fact... by your arguement I could just as easily say that humans have
spenta very long time on an omnivirous diet (and vegetariansim is a new pheonmenon in comparision to human history) and their eating habits
are accustomed to an ominirvirous diet - not a vegetarian diet. By the way, that appalling corporate greed-mongering business activity is called
capitalism... Europe's "progressive" animal rights laws are market based, not animal rights based. Plus, there's always China. If you're earning a
buck you'll be surprised by some of the terrible things you do everyday without even recognizing it.

 

[Jonny5alive]

Give me flesh!!!!

 

[Gs400TRd]

hopefully the price of a good porterhouse will go down as more people convert. and I have always wanted to try a whale burger too.
damn I love bacon and grilled chicken too... I think I would die If I spend more than 24 hours without some sort of meat be it: cow, pig or chicken...I can't remeber the last time I didn't have a portion of meat in a day YUM!
hell, I got to have my leather car seats, sofa, shoes, etc. etc. etc.
...can't pimp in canvas hehehehe.

 

[IshmaelLeaver]

Why is it wrong to kill animals?

It's not. It's just the way animals are kept that is terrible.

Evolution isn't a fact, it's just a theory

All of science is theory. Did you ever consider that? Wow!!! Since pretty much everything is non-factual, it's time to deny most of what you know.

Evolution never happens; everything just "magically appeared". That sure sounds a lot more believable.

If you're earning a buck you'll be surprised by some of the terrible things you do everyday without even recognizing it.

Both to others and yourself. But don't feel too bad, everyone's doing it, and nothing's going to change until something really bad happens. That's the way we work.




Speaking of evolution, of course this thread had to devolve. You can't have a vegetarian thread without some dolt posting "MMMM! I LOVE FLESH! MURDER TASTES GOOD!"

 

[skylark]

<<

<<

What kind of kindergarten arguments are these?! The animal kingdom diet habits are formed from evolution and habitats. A tiger can't all of sudden eat plants when it's digestive system and teeth are geared for meat --- it's natural instincts are to hunt for food not forage!

Did you even looked at the vids? This is what vegans are protesting about: inhumane treatment. It's appalling what corporate greed-mongering business will do for a buck... >>



I might ask the same about your arguements. Evolution isn't a fact, it's just a theory (an interpretation based on available facts), and no I'm not
saying creationism is the asnwer. It's just tha you can't tout a non-fact as a fact... by your arguement I could just as easily say that humans have
spenta very long time on an omnivirous diet (and vegetariansim is a new pheonmenon in comparision to human history) and their eating habits
are accustomed to an ominirvirous diet - not a vegetarian diet. By the way, that appalling corporate greed-mongering business activity is called
capitalism... Europe's "progressive" animal rights laws are market based, not animal rights based. Plus, there's always China. If you're earning a
buck you'll be surprised by some of the terrible things you do everyday without even recognizing it. >>



Err... Evolution theory *is* factual. Yu''ve missed the entire philosophy of veganism: purity and wholesome foods. Now, I'm sure we can continue to eat meat if the major meat producers actually cleaned up their acts and do it responsibly.

Capitalism works real great in class, it's another story in the jungle. It matters that economic systems be ethical, market-based or not.

And thank you, don't we all...

 

[SpongeBobPalmBay]

Aas long as they get the animal into the hot grease within a few minutes if cutting it's paws off I'm happy.

I don't want the critter to be in pain... or bleed on my carpet!

 

[dxpaap]

Well, watched the "meet your meat" video

very graphic - but pretty much what I expected for slaughter house - they are production line killing factorys - not nice.

Although, can't really figure out why they would cut the beaks off cute little fluffy yellow chicks - that got to hurt.

Maybe we need to learn how to grow genetically enhanced bacon in a petre dish

I'm suppose to forward that tape - anyone want it ?

 

[Sesopedalian]

In Minnesota, there is a proposal that probably will be passed, to take soybeans, squeeze the oil out of them, mix it with diesel fuel, and burn it in diesel truck engines! It's called biodiesel, and is currently being lobbied even at a federal level. The bill here will MANDATE diesel trucks burn this fuel. I would think Vegans would be up in arms about this. They are planning to burn your food in evil internal combustion engines!

 

[TekDemon]

I've tried the Morningstar stuff (grillers prime) and it tastes pretty good, but as Justincase says, it's not really healthy either, and would be only good as a temporary thing

I was going to start eating them a whole lot but one of my parents pointed out the fact that they're really not healthy at all, probably worse than eating real meat lol.

 

[TekDemon]

<< Hey Tek Demon, don't kid yourself into thinking that fish or chicken is any healthier for you than other meat. They've all got cholesterol and saturated fat in them. Fish can easily be more fatty than a lean piece of beef or pork. And to all who think that Morningstar farms and the other grocery store "veggie" foods are good for you read the ingredient list. It's a litany of processing chemicals and most of that crap has eggs in it too. I know a lot of "vegetarians" who eat foods with hydrogenated vegetable oils and MSG in them also which are worse than animal products. >>


Fish in general has far less cholesterol than beef, and I never said those morningstar farms foods were good for you, in fact, I think they're horribly unhealthy.

As for the reason I would rather eat Fish and Chicken, it's not really just about health, it's about killing intelligent animals. Fish and chicken are quite simply, lower animals than cows and pigs.

Fish and Chicken in moderation isn't going to kill anybody(well unless they're allergic).

Humans have been omnivorous this long, and I'm sure we'll deal just fine with some fish and chicken, instead of simply condemning all the meat. Hell, we *need* cholesterol. You can't survive without it. It makes your cell wall structure stay together, it allows you to produce testosterone and all the other steroid hormones.

So meat should stay, although I would hope not as many higher animals.

 

[IshmaelLeaver]

Although, can't really figure out why they would cut the beaks off cute little fluffy yellow chicks - that got to hurt.

I think it's so they don't peck themselves/each other/factory equipment. Probably most concerned about the latter.

The bill here will MANDATE diesel trucks burn this fuel.

WHAT?!?!? This is AMERICA, the nation blessed by God. We can do what we want.

Well, what do you expect from a state that elects a pro wrestler as its governer...

I say:
Rape the planet, pollute everything, kill all the non-useful species off, muck with the remainder's genetics, then cry for sympathy about your relatives dying of cancer.

(by the way, the Boca stuff tastes a lot better than the Morningstar stuff).

 

[Justincase]

TekDemon: there are always better products to be found; new meatless burgers come on the market all the time. You might want to contact Tree of Life/Harmony Farms and see if their excellent and tasty burger is carried in your area.


I posted this in the E.T. Phone Card thread, but it has some relevancy here...

Unfortunately, I just learned through this link that one of the brands of vegetarian products that I eat, Boca Burgers, was acquired by Kraft Foods on January 18th, 2000...time to find a better alternative If Kraft/MO still owns it, will no longer buy this product; I simply will not knowingly support any tobacco company in any way during my lifetime.

Hmmm...I wonder why the word 'Kraft' does not appear anywhere on my Boca Burger box...you'd think they'd be proud of their parent company :Q Just fired off an email to Boca.

 

[TekDemon]

<< BTW, whoever it was that stated that chicken and fish are healthy alternatives to beef...I only agree with 1/2 of that. Fish certainly DOES have health benefits, but chickens are highly diseased animals that eat anything, including what I mentioned above. I believe that even the government admits that upwards of 75% of chickens in the U.S. are contaminated, diseased animals, and our government always underestimates these things. >>


well that was me(again). Well, as I said in the previous post, fish definitely is healthier, but as far as chicken goes, it's just a matter of humane treatment of cows and pigs. Personally I hate the way they raise all sorts of animals in the US now, pigs to chickens, to cows. Heh, ever go to a live chicken store place?(dunno the word) where you can pick out the chicken you figure is the healthiest and then have it killed? Well, anyway, the point is, the meat there tastes vastly different from pre-packed chicken....... I think those are free range grown too. Big difference.

So I'm not saying the growth methods for chicken are perfect now, but I'm saying I would like it if we switched to a fish/chicken focused diet(while making sure we don't fish the fish into extinction!) as a substitute for beef/pork. The farming methods I would prefer would be the most healthy/humane ones possible.

Jeez...you vegans are just waiting to pounce on anything I say!!

 

[Justincase]

>>>Fish and Chicken in moderation isn't going to kill anybody(well unless they're allergic).<<<

Chickens will eat anything, including their own feces and the feces of other animals. The old saying "you are what you eat" is not exactly correct...you become what you eat, and what what you eat eats [read that carefully - it is correct], as well as what you drink, breathe, think, and assimilate. I wouldn't want to become that crap-eating chicken; there is nothing healthy about a dead chicken. Fish, on the other hand, does have some health benefits.


>>>Hell, we *need* cholesterol. You can't survive without it. It makes your cell wall structure stay together, it allows you to produce testosterone and all the other steroid hormones.<<<

Yes, humans need cholesterol. However, most of the cholesterol present in a typical human body is produced in the human body, in the liver. Most people do not need to consume additional cholesterol in their diet. Cholesterol deficiency is not a major problem in this country, as far as I have been able to determine :Q


Oh, and no, I am not a vegan and I'm not waiting to 'pounce' on anything...just hoping to be able to contribute a bit to the discussion, when it's sensible

 

[IshmaelLeaver]

Say, Sesopedalian, are you preparing your follow-up to the athlete argument? You seem to have dropped it.

 

[Biel]

<< If Kraft/MO still owns it, will no longer buy this product; I simply will not knowingly support any tobacco company in any way during my lifetime. >>



Gimme a break. That "tobacco companies are the great satan" [of the moment] argument is so tired.

Using that logic you may as well boycott all companies and industries that have behaved neglectfully to preserve themselves (I'm not saying this is right in any way, just sadly true)... so go ahead with all the food companies for the chemicals and hormones they put in food supply, all oil companies [and not drive anymore] and all those chemical companies for what they're doing to the environment, the liquor companies for all the drunk driving victims and dunkin donuts for increasing the girth of our police force and hence, allowing more criminals to get away.

 

[Justincase]

>>>Say, Sesopedalian, are you preparing your follow-up to the athlete argument?<<<

Well if he is, I'm ready...IN ADDITION to the previously posted athletes (see previous list)...MORE vegetarians in the athletic world...

* Jack LaLanne (Fitness guru) (vegan)
* B J Armstrong (US Basketball star)
* Al Beckles (body builder)
* Sorya Bonali (ice skater)
* Les Brown (veteran runner)
* Chris Campbell (1980 world champion wrestler)
* Joanna Conway (ice skater)
* Sylvia Cranston (triathlete)
* Di Edwards (runner, Olympic semi-finalist)
* Katie Fitzgibbon (marathon runner)
* Clare Francis (sailer)
* Louis Freitas (body builder)
* Carol Gould (marathon runner)
* Estelle Gray (cyclist)
* Sammy Green (runner)
* Sally Hibberd (British Women's Mountain Bike Champion)
* Sharon Hounsell (Miss Wales Bodybuilding Champion)
* Desmond Howard (formerly w/Washington Redskins, now w/Jacksonville Jaguars) Source: PETA mailer
* Roger Hughes (Welsh National Ski Champion)
* David Johnson (BAA coach)
* Kathy Johnson (Olympic Gymnast)
* Alan Jones (British ski jumper)
* Killer Kowalski (wrestler) Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
* Donnie LaLonde (Former Light Heavyweight Champion of the World. (Lost title to Sugar Ray Leonard)) Source: Article in San Jose Mercury News
* Tony LaRussa (Manager of St. Louis Cardinals - US team) Source: PETA, Animals Agenda, Animals Voice, Veg Times, others
* Silken Laumann (Olympic rower) Source: Cooking Television Show
* Judy Leden (British, European & World Hang Gliding champion)
* Marv Levey (Buffalo Bills Coach)
* Jutta M&uuml;ller (multiple Windsurfing World Cup Champion) Source: Flutlicht 95/6/18 on S&uuml;dwest 3 (German TV program)
* Jack Maitland (triathlete and fell runner)
* Cheryl Marek (cyclist) Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
* Leslie Marx (fencer;1996 woman's epee national champion)
* Kirsty McDermott (runner)
* Lindford McFarquar (body builder)
* Robert Millar (cyclist)
* Katherine Monbiot (world champion arm wrestler and nutritionist) (vegan) Source: The Vegan Society UK
* Monika Montsho (weightlifter, 2 x runnerup GB Championships 60kg, NW woman weightlifter of the year 1991)
* Julie Ann Niewiek (Basketball commentator) Source: Grand Rapids press/ Image Magazine
* Paavo Nurmi
* Bill Pearl (Bodybuilder, Mr America) Source: Getting Stronger by Bill Pearl, pg 399
* Debbie Spaeth-Herring (Georgia State power-lifter) Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
* Jacques Vaughn (All American point guard, #1-ranked Univ of KS Jayhawks) Source: Lawrence (KS) Journal World (numerous editions)
* Kirsty Wade (runner)
* Bill Walton (basketball player) Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian

There are more. I COULD go on and on and on, but you know, a closed mind is a terrible thing to change and as a wise man pointed out, if I provided 20 more, or 100 more, it would never be good enough. What some people would never understand is that just as in the general population only 5% of the people in the United States are vegetarian, only a small percentage of athletes are also vegetarians...given that, one would EXPECT the list of vegetarian and vegan athletes to be smaller than the list of carnivores. BTW, there ARE more vegetarians in the world than there are meat eaters; people living in poverty in many places in the world cannot afford meat.

BTW, I tried to find out what a Sesopedalian is, and all I found is
this

 

[Justincase]

>>>Gimme a break. That "tobacco companies are the great satan" [of the moment] argument is so tired.<<<

No need to pop a vein :Q As I noted, that post was copied/pasted from another thread where the topic of tobacco companies was being discussed.

 

[TekDemon]

Justincase-Kraft was spun off by Philip Morris a while ago because the tobacco company was keeping the food division's stock price down.

So technically they're their own company now! woohoo!

 

[TekDemon]

Justincase-I'm pretty sure there's a way to raise chickens so that they are healthy. If there isn't that means the entire species of chickens would die out by themselves if we stopped farming them *GAK!*

Free range chicken do just fine without antibiotics and they do not just die nor do they go after each other's feces over good food. At least I hope not! =)

And damn, is this thread active today.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

In his or her lifetime, the average American meat-eater is responsible for the abuse and deaths of some 2,400 animals, including approximately 2,287 chickens, 92 turkeys, 31 pigs, and 12 steers and calves.

Only 12 steers? I think I'll step it up to 3 ribeyes a week then.

Meateaters - If you really want to increase the "body count" - do All You Can Eat Shrimp night at Red Lobster. That is practically a holocaust.

For those who want to do this for environmental reasons - i.e. all that grain wasted on cows could feed the rest of humanity... you are seriously wasting your time. Most of world hunger is due to 1) political reasons and 2) logistical problems. You can't just make more grain to feed everyone. You have to fix the defective regimes responsible for their misery and develop ways for these folks to grow the grain needed for themselves.

We produce far more grain than cows or Americans can eat now. We have many crops that are not used to protect prices on grain to help the American farmer.

Have a steak... trust me... they are really tasty. The best part about steak is that you can have a salad with it.

 

[TekDemon]

<< Meateaters - If you really want to increase the "body count" - do All You Can Eat Shrimp night at Red Lobster. That is practically a holocaust. >>


LOL, what about the bacteria in yougurt BILLIONS will die!

But yes, the shrimp plus the bacteria on the shrip would be a super duper holocaust experience if you're into the "I'm all powerful and will eat you!" power trip thing

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Justincase -

Who the hell are most of the people on you list?

 

[Justincase]

>>>Free range chicken do just fine without antibiotics and they do not just die nor do they go after each other's feces over good food. At least I hope not!<<<

Don't bet the farm on it. Free-range or 'organic' chicken are no better educated than 'ordinary' chickens...they will eat practically anything that's placed in front of them. Some humans do the same as *some* recent posts here indicate :Q