French officials decide that Buriki cannot be worn at a swimming pool, despite its design exclusively as swimwear

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: tfcmasta97

Originally posted by: OCguy
This is why I laugh when sheltered liberal morons pretend the US is the most racist xenophobic country on the planet.


The French are more nationalistic than a Mississippian at a Nascar race.

I love it when hicks think they know anything about anything and just prove how off they are, you're just a gift that keeps on giving, with a brain that is just so.... so disappointing.

I guess it's the liberal's fault for expecting more, maybe something like practice what you preach, or trying to even meet reasonable standards, from some *cough, point* people that are just incapable of thought. I guess it's easy for your head to be full of shit when it's jammed up your ass.

A. I'm a hick? I'd be interested in your socio-economic class.

B. Hick is a slur that is used to disparage and broad-brush an entire group of people. Congrats!


You dont happen to be French-Canadian, do you?

 

[Kadarin]

Thinking about this... If a bunch of French people (or non-Muslim people) immigrated into a Muslim dominated country and insisted on wearing bikinis or going topless to the beach, do you think the people in the host country would object? Something tells me that Muslims would be perfectly ok with a double standard here.

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Take your bigoted anti-religious, religious view and shove it up your ass, you f-ing little Nazis. You are totally infected by the disease you describe and posses the amazing gift, additionally, of being brain-dead, oblivious to that fact.

:thumbsup:

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: OCguy
B. Hick is a slur that is used to disparage and broad-brush an entire group of people. Congrats!

Do you belong to that group of people? What are their distinguishing characteristics?

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
Thinking about this... If a bunch of French people (or non-Muslim people) immigrated into a Muslim dominated country and insisted on wearing bikinis or going topless to the beach, do you think the people in the host country would object? Something tells me that Muslims would be perfectly ok with a double standard here.

It's true. They might stone me for going nude at their pool. =X

In the US they might just eject me.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Kadarin
Thinking about this... If a bunch of French people (or non-Muslim people) immigrated into a Muslim dominated country and insisted on wearing bikinis or going topless to the beach, do you think the people in the host country would object? Something tells me that Muslims would be perfectly ok with a double standard here.

It's true. They might stone me for going nude at their pool. =X

:thumbsup:

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: OCguy
A. I'm a hick? I'd be interested in your socio-economic class.

B. Hick is a slur that is used to disparage and broad-brush an entire group of people. Congrats!

The term "hick" has nothing to do with socioeconomic class, and while it is slur that is used to disparage groups of people in phrases like "Southerners are hicks", using in a context such as "there are many hicks in the South, and more than one might think in California too" it is just a statement of fact. That said; yes, you are a hick.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: OCguy
A. I'm a hick? I'd be interested in your socio-economic class.

B. Hick is a slur that is used to disparage and broad-brush an entire group of people. Congrats!

The term "hick" has nothing to do with socioeconomic class, and while it is slur that is used to disparage groups of people in phrases like "Southerners are hicks", using in a context such as "there are many hicks in the South, and more than one might think in California too" it is just a statement of fact. That said; yes, you are a hick.

he would probably get banned if he told you what you are..lolol

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: TruePaige
It's true. They might stone me for going nude at their pool. =X

:thumbsup:

I get the impression you guys have been watching way too much of this, and have never seen anything like this.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
and have never seen anything like this.

Wow, that's like a cross between a bad hindi video and some archived '70s disco footage. Catchy, though, even if it would never fly in Saudi Arabia.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: TruePaige
It's true. They might stone me for going nude at their pool. =X

:thumbsup:

I get the impression you guys have been watching way too much of this, and have never seen anything like this.

Thanks for making my point.

A bunch of people singing FULLY CLOTHED at the beach.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It is discrimination and without any merit whatsoever. Like an opressive twit who uses any vague link to pedophilia to push some asinine law these people are using the irrelevant link of health effects (obviously they have zero proof that this causes any problems) to push their agenda.

The French have specific rules about attire at public pools for men and for women.

So THAT is why they all look gay when at the pool.

--

Some of the responses in this thread made me literally lol. I don't agree with the burkas but if they are not hurting others to wear them, let them do it. If I want to swim in a pool in a damn winter ski suit who gives a damn let me do it.

The other thing is that this rule -- like it or not -- is *not* a rule against a certain religion. The rule has always been in place and is enforced against everyone. If I show up with jeans at the pool, I'd get refused entrance just like she did.... except I wouldn't complain and call it religious discrimination.

The rule is, like French men in speedos, exceedingly gay. All the burkini has done is help illuminate its gayness in ways it had not before been seen. I cannot stand rules that serve no purpose and are there because of some doucheag's sensibilities.

Hey, I'm not saying it's a good rule (who the heck wants to see more men in speedos??) , just that it's a rule they decided they want in their society, and as such applies to everyone. This woman is whining about it, being discriminatory. It's not, it's just dumb. All the "this is oppression, what about freedom & liberty" angles fall flat. Every government on earth has restrictions that it puts on what it considers "proper attire" in a public setting. As long as those rules are applied equally to all, I don't see any issues with the French enforcing their rules.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It is discrimination and without any merit whatsoever. Like an opressive twit who uses any vague link to pedophilia to push some asinine law these people are using the irrelevant link of health effects (obviously they have zero proof that this causes any problems) to push their agenda.

The French have specific rules about attire at public pools for men and for women.

So THAT is why they all look gay when at the pool.

--

Some of the responses in this thread made me literally lol. I don't agree with the burkas but if they are not hurting others to wear them, let them do it. If I want to swim in a pool in a damn winter ski suit who gives a damn let me do it.

The other thing is that this rule -- like it or not -- is *not* a rule against a certain religion. The rule has always been in place and is enforced against everyone. If I show up with jeans at the pool, I'd get refused entrance just like she did.... except I wouldn't complain and call it religious discrimination.

The rule is, like French men in speedos, exceedingly gay. All the burkini has done is help illuminate its gayness in ways it had not before been seen. I cannot stand rules that serve no purpose and are there because of some doucheag's sensibilities.

Hey, I'm not saying it's a good rule (who the heck wants to see more men in speedos??) , just that it's a rule they decided they want in their society, and as such applies to everyone. This woman is whining about it, being discriminatory. It's not, it's just dumb. All the "this is oppression, what about freedom & liberty" angles fall flat. Every government on earth has restrictions that it puts on what it considers "proper attire" in a public setting. As long as those rules are applied equally to all, I don't see any issues with the French enforcing their rules.

These Muslims (and Muslims everywhere, I bet) consider themselves to be Muslims first and foremost, and being members of French society is completely secondary. Therefore, to them, whatever their religion dictates must come first even if it contradicts the laws and customs of society, and society must adjust to accommodate.

I don't hear too many examples where Muslims bend to accommodate the customs of non-Muslim society.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
I don't hear too many examples where Muslims bend to accommodate the customs of non-Muslim society.

Of course you don't, as our media is generally far too busy demonising Muslims to bother with such examples.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
These Muslims (and Muslims everywhere, I bet) consider themselves to be Muslims first and foremost, and being members of French society is completely secondary. Therefore, to them, whatever their religion dictates must come first even if it contradicts the laws and customs of society, and society must adjust to accommodate.

I don't hear too many examples where Muslims bend to accommodate the customs of non-Muslim society.

I'm sorry but that is a pretty self evident: that a religious person puts God before a government.

If you believe a supreme force exists in this world, and you think you know what the Supreme Force wants...then who the hell cares about a Government. Creator of the World vs. corrupt gathering of humans. GG before the match even starts.

Your problem is that you think a Muslim will betray the government.

Here: I'm a Muslim. God is the most important thing to me. If my country asks me to oppress and fight against any group of people, because they have a different religion, I will resist. If my country asks me to kill and attack innocent men and women, I will resist. If my country forces me to eat pork, I will resist. IF my country attempts to prevent me from practicing my religion.....I will resist. If my country wants me to oppress anyone for reasons I cannot agree with, I will resist.

So as long as the country/government respects my religious freedoms, I have no problem at all. I will be a loyal citizen and will try to always make sure that my country isn't fucking up, and if it does, to help where I can to try to fix things. But if I'm in a situation where I feel my country has fucked up and goes against my religion, I still see myself as a citizen...but now I'm going to resist the wrong action and push my country to go back on the right path. I'm not going to run in with machine guns blazing.

If I was married and had a wife who wanted to swim, and felt that she wanted to use a Burkini, I know that in the USA, there is no problem. If my wife chooses to wear a hijab, I know that she can do so in the United States. I know that she can choose to obtain a PhD while wearing a hijab, while swimming in a burkini. I also know that she can obtain a PhD WITHOUT wearing a hijab or swimming with a burkini.

This isn't about a society bending to accommodate others. Its about a society expanding to INCLUDE others. If someone wants to wear a burkini, all the pool goers do not 'accommodate' her burkini. It doesn't affect their swim, it doesn't affect anything. They simply accept swimming next to one another and that is it. Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims walking down the street wearing a hijab? Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims wearing a hijab in a school? IF you truly feel that you have 'accommodate' that, then you simply have TOLERANCE issues, especially on matters that don't affect you what so ever.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: kylebisme
and have never seen anything like this.

Wow, that's like a cross between a bad hindi video and some archived '70s disco footage. Catchy, though, even if it would never fly in Saudi Arabia.

Debka exists in all Arab Countries with variations. Just because it doesn't fly in Saudi Arabia with a mix of guys and girls (well...on an announced level) doesn't mean you won't see it in the other 21 Arab countries.

Unless your argument is that somehow Saudi Arabia is representative of the Arab Middle east....in which the Population of SA is about 30 million transposed against 300 million Arabs...

 

[ericlp]

Well, if I had my way I'd ban all Clothing in my pool. And you'd have to take a shower twice with lot's of soap. If everyone did that then they could cut the chemicals used in all pools. Hey but what do I know? I believe who ever owns the pool makes the rules? Don't like it? Go swim some place else.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Kadarin
I don't hear too many examples where Muslims bend to accommodate the customs of non-Muslim society.

Of course you don't, as our media is generally far too busy demonising Muslims to bother with such examples.

I like to hear some examples.

 

[kylebisme]

Since our media rarely reports anything of the sort, examples aren't so easy to come by. However, the fact that bikinis are allowed at beaches and pools in Morocco wasn't too hard to dig up. Another example off the top of my head is Palestinian beer.

 

[BoomerD]

It's about time the French stood up for personal hygiene...Gawd knows they need it!


Anyone else find the irony in the French denying the lady access to the pool due to hygiene reasons?

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Kadarin
These Muslims (and Muslims everywhere, I bet) consider themselves to be Muslims first and foremost, and being members of French society is completely secondary. Therefore, to them, whatever their religion dictates must come first even if it contradicts the laws and customs of society, and society must adjust to accommodate.

I don't hear too many examples where Muslims bend to accommodate the customs of non-Muslim society.

I'm sorry but that is a pretty self evident: that a religious person puts God before a government.

If you believe a supreme force exists in this world, and you think you know what the Supreme Force wants...then who the hell cares about a Government. Creator of the World vs. corrupt gathering of humans. GG before the match even starts.

Your problem is that you think a Muslim will betray the government.

Here: I'm a Muslim. God is the most important thing to me. If my country asks me to oppress and fight against any group of people, because they have a different religion, I will resist. If my country asks me to kill and attack innocent men and women, I will resist. If my country forces me to eat pork, I will resist. IF my country attempts to prevent me from practicing my religion.....I will resist. If my country wants me to oppress anyone for reasons I cannot agree with, I will resist.

So as long as the country/government respects my religious freedoms, I have no problem at all. I will be a loyal citizen and will try to always make sure that my country isn't fucking up, and if it does, to help where I can to try to fix things. But if I'm in a situation where I feel my country has fucked up and goes against my religion, I still see myself as a citizen...but now I'm going to resist the wrong action and push my country to go back on the right path. I'm not going to run in with machine guns blazing.

If I was married and had a wife who wanted to swim, and felt that she wanted to use a Burkini, I know that in the USA, there is no problem. If my wife chooses to wear a hijab, I know that she can do so in the United States. I know that she can choose to obtain a PhD while wearing a hijab, while swimming in a burkini. I also know that she can obtain a PhD WITHOUT wearing a hijab or swimming with a burkini.

This isn't about a society bending to accommodate others. Its about a society expanding to INCLUDE others. If someone wants to wear a burkini, all the pool goers do not 'accommodate' her burkini. It doesn't affect their swim, it doesn't affect anything. They simply accept swimming next to one another and that is it. Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims walking down the street wearing a hijab? Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims wearing a hijab in a school? IF you truly feel that you have 'accommodate' that, then you simply have TOLERANCE issues, especially on matters that don't affect you what so ever.

I agree with you for the most part, but the fact remains that the Muslim religion is in many ways at odds with western societies and culture. If adapting to the western society is not acceptable because certain fundamental rules of the religion do not jibe with fundamental rules of the western society, then those who cannot accept those principles should move to some other country. In France for example, it's not about the hijab / burqa / whatever it's called, it's about the fundamental principal of gender equality. Certain Muslims (by no means all of them) simply can not accept that concept, because it goes counter to their beliefs. The burqa is a symbol of that problem, and the French have decided that they will not accept it. I see no problem with their position.

Again, I have not read anything in the articles referenced that indicates she was banned from the pool because of her religious beliefs. She was booted because she violated rules that apply to everyone, no matter how silly some might think those rules are. She's whining about religious freedom etc, when it has nothing to do with it. If a guy showed up in jeans, he'd have the same result she did. It just happens to affect her because of her nutty beliefs, but that's her problem.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Kadarin
These Muslims (and Muslims everywhere, I bet) consider themselves to be Muslims first and foremost, and being members of French society is completely secondary. Therefore, to them, whatever their religion dictates must come first even if it contradicts the laws and customs of society, and society must adjust to accommodate.

I don't hear too many examples where Muslims bend to accommodate the customs of non-Muslim society.

I'm sorry but that is a pretty self evident: that a religious person puts God before a government.

If you believe a supreme force exists in this world, and you think you know what the Supreme Force wants...then who the hell cares about a Government. Creator of the World vs. corrupt gathering of humans. GG before the match even starts.

Your problem is that you think a Muslim will betray the government.

Here: I'm a Muslim. God is the most important thing to me. If my country asks me to oppress and fight against any group of people, because they have a different religion, I will resist. If my country asks me to kill and attack innocent men and women, I will resist. If my country forces me to eat pork, I will resist. IF my country attempts to prevent me from practicing my religion.....I will resist. If my country wants me to oppress anyone for reasons I cannot agree with, I will resist.

So as long as the country/government respects my religious freedoms, I have no problem at all. I will be a loyal citizen and will try to always make sure that my country isn't fucking up, and if it does, to help where I can to try to fix things. But if I'm in a situation where I feel my country has fucked up and goes against my religion, I still see myself as a citizen...but now I'm going to resist the wrong action and push my country to go back on the right path. I'm not going to run in with machine guns blazing.

If I was married and had a wife who wanted to swim, and felt that she wanted to use a Burkini, I know that in the USA, there is no problem. If my wife chooses to wear a hijab, I know that she can do so in the United States. I know that she can choose to obtain a PhD while wearing a hijab, while swimming in a burkini. I also know that she can obtain a PhD WITHOUT wearing a hijab or swimming with a burkini.

This isn't about a society bending to accommodate others. Its about a society expanding to INCLUDE others. If someone wants to wear a burkini, all the pool goers do not 'accommodate' her burkini. It doesn't affect their swim, it doesn't affect anything. They simply accept swimming next to one another and that is it. Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims walking down the street wearing a hijab? Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims wearing a hijab in a school? IF you truly feel that you have 'accommodate' that, then you simply have TOLERANCE issues, especially on matters that don't affect you what so ever.

I agree with you for the most part, but the fact remains that the Muslim religion is in many ways at odds with western societies and culture. If adapting to the western society is not acceptable because certain fundamental rules of the religion do not jibe with fundamental rules of the western society, then those who cannot accept those principles should move to some other country. In France for example, it's not about the hijab / burqa / whatever it's called, it's about the fundamental principal of gender equality. Certain Muslims (by no means all of them) simply can not accept that concept, because it goes counter to their beliefs. The burqa is a symbol of that problem, and the French have decided that they will not accept it. I see no problem with their position.

Again, I have not read anything in the articles referenced that indicates she was banned from the pool because of her religious beliefs. She was booted because she violated rules that apply to everyone, no matter how silly some might think those rules are. She's whining about religious freedom etc, when it has nothing to do with it. If a guy showed up in jeans, he'd have the same result she did. It just happens to affect her because of her nutty beliefs, but that's her problem.

I have no problem with anyone choosing to follow their religious beliefs, so long as I don't have to adjust anything I do in order to accommodate. For example:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhim...ch/archives/014683.php

The above link details a case in Minneapolis where Muslim Somali cab drivers refused to transport people who were legally carrying alcohol (i.e. an unopened bottle of wine, etc.) per their religious beliefs.

This kind of behavior is not restricted to Islam. For example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4425603.stm

The above link covers pharmacists who refuse to hand out birth control pills due to religious beliefs.

Both cases above are absolutely wrong. It's one thing for a woman to choose to wear the hijab, but she should also have the choice not to.

My opinion on the swimwear detailed in the OP: It looks ridiculous. However, if it is deemed to be acceptable swimwear, then I have no problem with it. If society says that it's not appropriate, then it's not appropriate.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Kadarin
These Muslims (and Muslims everywhere, I bet) consider themselves to be Muslims first and foremost, and being members of French society is completely secondary. Therefore, to them, whatever their religion dictates must come first even if it contradicts the laws and customs of society, and society must adjust to accommodate.

I don't hear too many examples where Muslims bend to accommodate the customs of non-Muslim society.

I'm sorry but that is a pretty self evident: that a religious person puts God before a government.

If you believe a supreme force exists in this world, and you think you know what the Supreme Force wants...then who the hell cares about a Government. Creator of the World vs. corrupt gathering of humans. GG before the match even starts.

Your problem is that you think a Muslim will betray the government.

Here: I'm a Muslim. God is the most important thing to me. If my country asks me to oppress and fight against any group of people, because they have a different religion, I will resist. If my country asks me to kill and attack innocent men and women, I will resist. If my country forces me to eat pork, I will resist. IF my country attempts to prevent me from practicing my religion.....I will resist. If my country wants me to oppress anyone for reasons I cannot agree with, I will resist.

So as long as the country/government respects my religious freedoms, I have no problem at all. I will be a loyal citizen and will try to always make sure that my country isn't fucking up, and if it does, to help where I can to try to fix things. But if I'm in a situation where I feel my country has fucked up and goes against my religion, I still see myself as a citizen...but now I'm going to resist the wrong action and push my country to go back on the right path. I'm not going to run in with machine guns blazing.

If I was married and had a wife who wanted to swim, and felt that she wanted to use a Burkini, I know that in the USA, there is no problem. If my wife chooses to wear a hijab, I know that she can do so in the United States. I know that she can choose to obtain a PhD while wearing a hijab, while swimming in a burkini. I also know that she can obtain a PhD WITHOUT wearing a hijab or swimming with a burkini.

This isn't about a society bending to accommodate others. Its about a society expanding to INCLUDE others. If someone wants to wear a burkini, all the pool goers do not 'accommodate' her burkini. It doesn't affect their swim, it doesn't affect anything. They simply accept swimming next to one another and that is it. Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims walking down the street wearing a hijab? Do you have to 'accommodate' the Muslims wearing a hijab in a school? IF you truly feel that you have 'accommodate' that, then you simply have TOLERANCE issues, especially on matters that don't affect you what so ever.

I agree with you for the most part, but the fact remains that the Muslim religion is in many ways at odds with western societies and culture. If adapting to the western society is not acceptable because certain fundamental rules of the religion do not jibe with fundamental rules of the western society, then those who cannot accept those principles should move to some other country. In France for example, it's not about the hijab / burqa / whatever it's called, it's about the fundamental principal of gender equality. Certain Muslims (by no means all of them) simply can not accept that concept, because it goes counter to their beliefs. The burqa is a symbol of that problem, and the French have decided that they will not accept it. I see no problem with their position.

Again, I have not read anything in the articles referenced that indicates she was banned from the pool because of her religious beliefs. She was booted because she violated rules that apply to everyone, no matter how silly some might think those rules are. She's whining about religious freedom etc, when it has nothing to do with it. If a guy showed up in jeans, he'd have the same result she did. It just happens to affect her because of her nutty beliefs, but that's her problem.

I have no problem with anyone choosing to follow their religious beliefs, so long as I don't have to adjust anything I do in order to accommodate. For example:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhim...ch/archives/014683.php

The above link details a case in Minneapolis where Muslim Somali cab drivers refused to transport people who were legally carrying alcohol (i.e. an unopened bottle of wine, etc.) per their religious beliefs.

This kind of behavior is not restricted to Islam. For example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4425603.stm

The above link covers pharmacists who refuse to hand out birth control pills due to religious beliefs.

Both cases above are absolutely wrong. It's one thing for a woman to choose to wear the hijab, but she should also have the choice not to.

My opinion on the swimwear detailed in the OP: It looks ridiculous. However, if it is deemed to be acceptable swimwear, then I have no problem with it. If society says that it's not appropriate, then it's not appropriate.

:thumbsup: Agreed 100%. You can believe whatever you want, but don't force the rest of society to change their behavior to fit into the mold of your beliefs.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: OCguy
This is why I laugh when sheltered liberal morons pretend the US is the most racist xenophobic country on the planet.


The French are more nationalistic than a Mississippian at a Nascar race.

Meh. The Mississippian would just as soon shoot the Muslim fer bein' a terrist who killed Jesus and done did 911. Banning attire not nearly as bad.

Two can play that game. The muslim will send their 3 year old strapped with explosives and send him to a french cafe and martyr him to kingdom come.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

I agree with you for the most part, but the fact remains that the Muslim religion is in many ways at odds with western societies and culture. If adapting to the western society is not acceptable because certain fundamental rules of the religion do not jibe with fundamental rules of the western society, then those who cannot accept those principles should move to some other country. In France for example, it's not about the hijab / burqa / whatever it's called, it's about the fundamental principal of gender equality. Certain Muslims (by no means all of them) simply can not accept that concept, because it goes counter to their beliefs. The burqa is a symbol of that problem, and the French have decided that they will not accept it. I see no problem with their position.

Again, I have not read anything in the articles referenced that indicates she was banned from the pool because of her religious beliefs. She was booted because she violated rules that apply to everyone, no matter how silly some might think those rules are. She's whining about religious freedom etc, when it has nothing to do with it. If a guy showed up in jeans, he'd have the same result she did. It just happens to affect her because of her nutty beliefs, but that's her problem.

I can say the same thing with different Christian groups about being at odds with 'western societies and culture'. Islam is just a convenient target for today's world. I suggest you try to define that vague term first if you will invoke it.

Again, she was wearing swimwear. If you want to somehow suggest that material designed for a pool is equivalent to a pair of jeans, I'd like to see you spell out the argument.

See I feel there is a HUGE disconnect when you say, "France for example, it's not about the hijab / burqa / whatever it's called, it's about the fundamental principal of gender equality". It is as if you understand very little. A Hijab is not the same as a Burqa, is not the same as a Niqab, and exists in many diferent styles. How can you lump them all together when a hijab and Burqa are VERY different http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared...uslim_veils/html/1.stm
Furthermore, you take the line that the Hjiab (or 'whatever' you are thinking of, as I can't tell) is not part of gender equality at all. Then you simply don't understand why MANY women wear the Hijab voluntarily. You think those protestors in France were simply males, and the women were at home told not to come out into the streets? Here is a hint: http://blogs.reuters.com/faith...9/07/hijab-protest.jpg. You can also see zero Burqas in that photo. To many women the Hijab is a symbol of empowerment. If you see a lady wearing a Hijab on the street, I would suggest to ask her why she wears one.

Here is an interested blog on the topic:

http://madas.jordanplanet.org/2009/07/29/hypocrisy-of-the-french-and-the-hijab/ - French dignity and the Hijab?

Inspired by the conversation that was created on Nas? blog about the Hijab? I was wondering why some people tend to get defensive when it comes to the Hijab.

I followed Sarkozy?s historic speech addressing the French Parliament this last June, where he addressed one of the most debated issues in France, the Hijab!

?We cannot accept in our country women imprisoned behind bars, cut off from social life, deprived of identity,? he said. ?That is not our idea of maintaining the dignity of women.? to know more about the story, read here.

What was not clear to me was whether France will ban burqas or was Sarkozy just encouraging people in France to feel and express hostility towards women who wear them? I also did not understand how denying women this choice would enhance their dignity? It is interesting how the west always assumes that women who wear the Burqa do so because they are forced or pressured into it. I would like to refer here to an Egyptian Anthropologist? Lila Abu Lughod, who researched the hijab extensively and referred to the hijab as a form of resistance.

In one of her studies, she was talking about how the Americans made it a point to say that one of the reasons they would go into Afghanistan was to save the Afghani women from the Burqa? I guess they were expecting that all women will go in the street and throw the Burqas the moment they saw the Americans?

It, as we all know,? did not happen.

Actually? I really don?t want to talk about the hijab, this was not my intention in this post. What I really found interesting was that Sarkozy? the man who divorced his wife in a sex scandal after cheating on her with a model was talking about women?s dignity with so much confidence? I am not sure how women who wear the hijab are not dignified, but women who get cheated on through sex scandals by their partners are??. I, as a women find that interesting, i wonder how other women feel about it? also I wonder how Sarkozy can speak about women?s dignity? when he was checking a young woman?s butt in a very indignified way? not too long ago actually. ?

Just to add another dimension to this? researches affiliated with the Sorbonne have recently published a report on inequalities in France? The volume includes extensive statistical information about social and economic inequalities in France? it addressed the gender inequality? Apparently, women in France are clearly discriminated against in the workplace? till today, these dignified French women don?t earn the same salaries as men, even though they hold the same positions?

I guess we should aspire to a world where women have their full rights, but let?s not get too lost in the western idea of rights to a point where we ignore the right to chose, and the right to be different in the process?

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Originally posted by: Kadarin

I have no problem with anyone choosing to follow their religious beliefs, so long as I don't have to adjust anything I do in order to accommodate. For example:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhim...ch/archives/014683.php

The above link details a case in Minneapolis where Muslim Somali cab drivers refused to transport people who were legally carrying alcohol (i.e. an unopened bottle of wine, etc.) per their religious beliefs.

This kind of behavior is not restricted to Islam. For example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4425603.stm

The above link covers pharmacists who refuse to hand out birth control pills due to religious beliefs.

Both cases above are absolutely wrong. It's one thing for a woman to choose to wear the hijab, but she should also have the choice not to.

My opinion on the swimwear detailed in the OP: It looks ridiculous. However, if it is deemed to be acceptable swimwear, then I have no problem with it. If society says that it's not appropriate, then it's not appropriate.

FWIW I think if the cab drivers do not want to carry alcohol then they should be looking for another job. FWIW, I would suggest bringing up sites other than Jihadwatch. Its a retarded site.

But so as long as we are clear on "so as long as I don't have to adjust anything I do in order to accomodate" then we are fine. A woman swimming in a burkini does not force you to adjust anything when you visit a pool. A lady wearing a hijab in a college class (or even teaching for that matter) does not force you to study any differently or take in material in effectively.
A cab driver refusing to transport you for a religious reason DOES force you to accommodate. Traveling further for birth control pills DOES force you to accommodate someone else, and it is why I'm also opposed to that.

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
:thumbsup: Agreed 100%. You can believe whatever you want, but don't force the rest of society to change their behavior to fit into the mold of your beliefs.

Except you mis read what was written by him. Your logic of "If sociey [ie:majority] says its banned, then its banned" simply leads to tyranny of the majority on the minority.