French officials decide that Buriki cannot be worn at a swimming pool, despite its design exclusively as swimwear

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
A fan of mob rule, eh? And if the French decided to start making Muslims wear yellow crescent badges, would you still be arguing that a society should do as it wants?

If you want to refer to "democracy" as "mob rule", then yes, I'm a fan of democracy. Read my posts: the majority can legislate anything with the exception of inalienable rights.

In your example of "mandatory yellow crescent badges for Muslims", that rule would only apply to Muslims, and as such would be a violation of their rights to be treated equally under the law. The rules around clothing allowed at a public pool are applies equally to everyone, so I don't see any problem with them (other than being silly).

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The UK has gone the complete opposite:

No Burquini, No Bathing: British Pools Impose Muslim Dress Codes on All Swimmers

Pathetic. Those who do not believe in a foolish religion should not have to follow it's foolish laws. Whoever made the decision to do this is a spineless moron. Everyone knows this.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The UK has gone the complete opposite:

No Burquini, No Bathing: British Pools Impose Muslim Dress Codes on All Swimmers

Pathetic. Those who do not believe in a foolish religion should not have to follow it's foolish laws. Whoever made the decision to do this is a spineless moron. Everyone knows this.

Indeed, the British have proven to be very spineless in letting their culture get run over to placate certain groups. The French used to be the same way, but they are waking up to the dangers and are starting to take a stand, even if that stand might seem arbitrary or unneeded to us as outsiders.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The UK has gone the complete opposite:

No Burquini, No Bathing: British Pools Impose Muslim Dress Codes on All Swimmers

Pathetic. Those who do not believe in a foolish religion should not have to follow it's foolish laws. Whoever made the decision to do this is a spineless moron. Everyone knows this.

Indeed, the British have proven to be very spineless in letting their culture get run over to placate certain groups. The French used to be the same way, but they are waking up to the dangers and are starting to take a stand, even if that stand might seem arbitrary or unneeded to us as outsiders.

Make a stand? Placate? Yeah, they're coming for us, those girls in burkinies spell the end.

 

[actuarial]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
It's their fucking country. While I may disagree with it, they ARE free to pass whatever laws they so choose. In your example, are they being discriminated against in any way except the dress requirement? You say nothing about being loaded into box cars for shipment to "reeducation camps."

I dislike many of the laws in foreign countries...many are heavily discriminatory against "outsiders." My dislike of them doesn't change the fact that those laws were passed...
AFAIK, most Muslim countries are far from being "free-thinking." Many are very repressive, in thought, in dress, and in social behavior. Are they supposed to change because I, as an American and (for the sake of argument) a devoted nudist want to be able to walk the street buck-nekkid? No? didn't think so.
(good thing that's only hypothetical...I don't want to have so many people laughing...without being able to at least collect a cover charge)

Based solely on news reports, aren't many American women forced to wear burkas when in public in many Muslim nations? Even though they're not Muslim, they're forced to adhere to the local "standards of decency."

Is that wrong? Personally, I think so, BUT, once again, it's their country...and they're free to make whatever laws they so choose. WE have the choice whether to visit those countries and subject ourselves to the local laws...or to stay away.

I don't really understand what you are arguing. Of course they're allowed to pass any laws they want. No one would argue with that. I thought people here were saying the law is wrong, just like you think the laws in SA are wrong, and needlessly restrict personal freedom.

If you started a thread about how requiring people to wear hijabs needlessly restricts personal freedom, what good would a response of "they can pass any law the want" do?

 

[actuarial]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Based solely on news reports, aren't many American women forced to wear burkas when in public in many Muslim nations? Even though they're not Muslim, they're forced to adhere to the local "standards of decency."

Is that wrong?

Not many Muslim nations, but yes it is wrong, and writing into law doesn't change that.

"All women must wear burqas" is wrong, just as "all women must wear bikinis when in a public pool" is wrong? If this is the case, then what you are in essence saying is that it's wrong for a culture/society/nation to enforce any given clothing standard for anyone.

Because it's all arbitrary anyways, right? Or is it that whatever is written in your religious book of choice is correct, and everyone else's is wrong?

Forcing a specific standard is a lot different than setting a minimum standard. Setting a minimum standard which is needlessly oppressive is wrong, as is disallowing non offensive clothing. I don't get the religious book comment. I would hazard a guess that most people against this law are atheist (I am).

I have no problem with a minimum standard of dress code where I work. I WOULD have a problem if they sent out an email stating "no turbans are allowed in the office", as there's no legitimate reason for it.

I'm also not for excessive religious freedom. There was a guy who got pulled over recently in Toronto who was not wearing a motorcycle helmet. He refused to pay the ticket because a helmet wouldn't fit over his turban, and he said the helmet law did not allow him freedom of religion. They fined him anyways. In this case I agree with the law. Helmet laws are there for legitimate safety reasons, and he shouldn't be allowed to use his religious preference to skirt them.

There is no legitimate reason to ban burkinis, other than the fact that people don't like their religious symbolism. I'm atheist, but I wouldn't stand for a group of atheists passing a law that states that people are not allowed to put Jesus fish on their bumper solely because they don't like the connotation.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: kylebisme
A fan of mob rule, eh? And if the French decided to start making Muslims wear yellow crescent badges, would you still be arguing that a society should do as it wants?

If you want to refer to "democracy" as "mob rule", then yes, I'm a fan of democracy. Read my posts: the majority can legislate anything with the exception of inalienable rights.

I refer to the majority legislating against the inalienable rights of others as "mob rule", it seems we simply have different concepts of inalienable rights.

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The UK has gone the complete opposite:

No Burquini, No Bathing: British Pools Impose Muslim Dress Codes on All Swimmers

Pathetic. Those who do not believe in a foolish religion should not have to follow it's foolish laws. Whoever made the decision to do this is a spineless moron. Everyone knows this.

I missed that report earlier, but I recommend making a mockery of the situation by organising various other groups to claim rights to dictating dress codes at their own swim sessions; from nudists to people insisting everyone is covered from head to toe and various standards in between. That would do well to demonstrate the absurdity of pandering to such demands, and then perhaps everyone can settle for dressing however they like and respecting the rights of everyone else to choose otherwise.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Yes, I think any woman stupid enough to be oppressed by jealous men through their religion is a moron.

I agree, but I also realise many women choose to dress modestly by their own will alone, both Muslims and otherwise.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I heard they don't want a lot of cloth in the water because it picks up too much dirt. A teeny weeny itty bitty bikini doesn't pick up much dirt or sand.

Skin picks up dirt and sand too, and showers wash it off.

Better response to TruePaige than I would have said...

And I think you missed the point of Moonbeam's post

Honestly, I am not ashamed of my body, and am not disgusted by anyone elses body.

I would go around the whole day, every day naked.

Clothing is such an antiquated notion, with climate control it isn't really needed often except maybe a long coat to get to your car in the winter, or a jogging suit to jog in the cold.

In fact if you have ever jogged naked with just a support garment it can be a much cooler run and last longer with your body being able to sweat and breath.

So then what does your personal views on clothing have to do with forcing women to dress a certain way? Do you feel that you are unable to run in the nude if a women wears modest swimwear? I'm not seeing the connection here.

your religion forces women to dress a certain way or get beaten. i dont see the connection here.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Citrix
your religion forces women to dress a certain way or get beaten.

No it doesn't, though some jackasses who claim that religion do.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Citrix
your religion forces women to dress a certain way or get beaten.

No it doesn't, though some jackasses who claim that religion do.

Apparently, "some jackasses" consists of a significant proportion of the world's Muslim population.

 

[kylebisme]

What proportion are you suggesting specifically?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Citrix
your religion forces women to dress a certain way or get beaten.

No it doesn't, though some jackasses who claim that religion do.

it doesn't?

Sudan women 'flogged for wearing pants'

Sudanese police arrested 13 women in a raid on a cafe and flogged 10 of them in public for wearing trousers in violation of the country's strict Islamic law

how about Saudi Arabia? Pakistan, Afghanistan? Northern Inda...

 

[chucky2]

Evil pants are one thing (I mean, pants on women...if that doesn't save The Devil I don't know what does)...

...but when non-Islamic teachers let their Islamic students name a stuffed bear one of the most common names in the world, d@mn straight should that teacher be tortured and murdered in the name of the Most Holy. This makes perfect sense.

:thumbsup:

On a somewhat more serious note: Shouldn't we be happy the French are helping her, in a non-violent way, to break out from her religous brainwashing? Shouldn't this be viewed as a good thing?

Chuck

 

[actuarial]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Evil pants are one thing (I mean, pants on women...if that doesn't save The Devil I don't know what does)...

...but when non-Islamic teachers let their Islamic students name a stuffed bear one of the most common names in the world, d@mn straight should that teacher be tortured and murdered in the name of the Most Holy. This makes perfect sense.

:thumbsup:

On a somewhat more serious note: Shouldn't we be happy the French are helping her, in a non-violent way, to break out from her religous brainwashing? Shouldn't this be viewed as a good thing?

Chuck

So the ends justify the means?

Being forced into a new standard over an old once doesn't really empower anyone.

 

[chucky2]

Well, if I'm going to be brainswashed into a standard, I'd much rather have it be a standard I'm brainwashed into that allows me more freedom than less.

Wanting different cultures to cede their values because she wants to wear a burkini is really just too F'ing bad. She can go find the most unflattering one piece, and go swimming. If the All Powerful Allah is so outraged, he'll personally - not through anyone else, since he's obviously All Powerful, hence not needing anyone's help - strike her down.

If he doesn't, I guess he wasn't too pissed huh?

Chuck

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Citrix
your religion forces women to dress a certain way or get beaten.

No it doesn't, though some jackasses who claim that religion do.

it doesn't?

Right. Islam does not force women to dress a certain way or get beaten, much like Christianity does not force force people to believe a certain way or get executed, though many jackasses who claim those respective religions have done both throughout history.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Citrix
it doesn't

Sudan women 'flogged for wearing pants'

Sudanese police arrested 13 women in a raid on a cafe and flogged 10 of them in public for wearing trousers in violation of the country's strict Islamic law

how about Saudi Arabia? Pakistan, Afghanistan? Northern Inda...

Originally posted by: chucky2
Evil pants are one thing (I mean, pants on women...if that doesn't save The Devil I don't know what does)...

...but when non-Islamic teachers let their Islamic students name a stuffed bear one of the most common names in the world, d@mn straight should that teacher be tortured and murdered in the name of the Most Holy. This makes perfect sense.

:thumbsup:

On a somewhat more serious note: Shouldn't we be happy the French are helping her, in a non-violent way, to break out from her religous brainwashing? Shouldn't this be viewed as a good thing?

Chuck

Wtf you two talking about? You think all Muslims around the world are a single monotholic unit? What relevance does that have right here? It has no relevance at all. All you guys are doing are trying to lump all Muslims together and then something drawing a line between "Some Sudanese Muslims" and "Can a Burkini be worn in the swimming pool".

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Yes, I think any woman stupid enough to be oppressed by jealous men through their religion is a moron.

I agree, but I also realise many women choose to dress modestly by their own will alone, both Muslims and otherwise.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I heard they don't want a lot of cloth in the water because it picks up too much dirt. A teeny weeny itty bitty bikini doesn't pick up much dirt or sand.

Skin picks up dirt and sand too, and showers wash it off.

Better response to TruePaige than I would have said...

And I think you missed the point of Moonbeam's post

Honestly, I am not ashamed of my body, and am not disgusted by anyone elses body.

I would go around the whole day, every day naked.

Clothing is such an antiquated notion, with climate control it isn't really needed often except maybe a long coat to get to your car in the winter, or a jogging suit to jog in the cold.

In fact if you have ever jogged naked with just a support garment it can be a much cooler run and last longer with your body being able to sweat and breath.

So then what does your personal views on clothing have to do with forcing women to dress a certain way? Do you feel that you are unable to run in the nude if a women wears modest swimwear? I'm not seeing the connection here.

your religion forces women to dress a certain way or get beaten. i dont see the connection here.

Point it out to me. I dare you. Prove to me that the Quran establishes that. You know, let us take it a step further and describe what the Quran actually says.;
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH you mean to say your news is just a concoction of half truths and lies that you aren't sure about, but remember some reference on Jihadwatch and [insert poor source here]?

By the way, none of this has any relevance to the question of if the burkini can be worn at a swimming pool. Interesting to watch the thread start to evolve into this, when it was never about the Quranic reasons or justifications to dress more modest/conservative: it is simply about whether or not the burkini, swimwear designed for the pool, should qualify as swimwear.