Freon and the AC -- scam?

[yottabit]

My advice is:

Bring it to a trusted mechanic to fill it, tell him you have a leak (he should suggest filling it with a flourescent dye- if he doesn't find a new mechanic)

This should cost <= $100

If it leaks again within the next couple weeks bring it back to him and he should be able to quickly find where the problem is. If it's anything other than a simple o-ring seal or something then it's going to be a lot of money. But honestly most of the time I find it's stupid o-ring seals. You'll need to pay another $100 or so if this is the problem but it's worth it for good AC If it's the compressor or something you'll probably just want to junk the car.

 

[Ferzerp]

I'd say buy a set of gauges/filler ($60) and a 30lbs tank of r134a ($140) and probably keep it topped off yourself for the rest of the life of the car unless it's a major leak, but then someone would complain about ozone etc and tell me I'm a bad person.

 

[bbs lm-r]

Mxylplyx gave the best answer for you to start with, grab a can of freon at your local parts store(one that comes with a hose and connector), charge it back up and see how long it lasts.

NOTE:Wear safety glasses and gloves.

Between vehicle vibration and bumps freon can leak ever so slowly over time, so a recharge can last a while with no repairs.

A vehicle gets alot more abuse then a refrigerator.

Using cans is not the best answer.

Ok so you buy a can and start charging your system. How do you know how much to put in? Only way to know is to first know how much is even left in the system, and to know that you have to recover it.

If you over-charge it, you're gonna get poor cooling. Pressure sensors will constantly be picking up high readings and constantly disengage the compressor clutch. If you under-charge it, you're still gonna get poor cooling, and you're risking ruining the compressor.

If you previously got it charged and it's not cooling now, there's no real doubt that you have a leak. The problem is finding it and incase you're unaware it can be a real PITA to find. I've used some nice Snap-On sniffers and even then you have to go around tracing all the lines, across ALL of the condenser/evaporator tubes, fittings, etc. and you still might not find it.

This is pretty much what I would suggest personally.

My advice is:

Bring it to a trusted mechanic to fill it, tell him you have a leak (he should suggest filling it with a flourescent dye- if he doesn't find a new mechanic)

This should cost <= $100

If it leaks again within the next couple weeks bring it back to him and he should be able to quickly find where the problem is. If it's anything other than a simple o-ring seal or something then it's going to be a lot of money. But honestly most of the time I find it's stupid o-ring seals. You'll need to pay another $100 or so if this is the problem but it's worth it for good AC If it's the compressor or something you'll probably just want to junk the car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Using cans is not the best answer.

Ok so you buy a can and start charging your system. How do you know how much to put in? Only way to know is to first know how much is even left in the system, and to know that you have to recover it.

I never charge by volume. I charge by pressure/temperature charts. Most cans today have charging hoses with a pressure gauge in them so you can check the low-side pressures and get the correct charge.

ZV

 

[Insomniator]

I believe those old systems can be tuned to the point where they literally freeze themselves.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Alot of answers here seem to be from the automotive "purists" here that treat every vehicle as if it's their baby. Sure, a proper way to fix this is to discover the leak, and have the system repaired and properly filled. Lets face it folks, this is a 16yr old beater. $100 is alot to spend on a car like this if you don't have to. Get a can, charge the system, and if it gets you through the summer...crisis averted! A little under filled, a little overfilled, who cares!!

 

[Zenmervolt]

A lot of answers here seem to be from the automotive "purists" here that treat every vehicle as if it's their baby. Sure, a proper way to fix this is to discover the leak, and have the system repaired and properly filled. Lets face it folks, this is a 16yr old beater. $100 is a lot to spend on a car like this if you don't have to. Get a can, charge the system, and if it gets you through the summer...crisis averted! A little under filled, a little overfilled, who cares!!

The OP doesn't want "one more summer." He has a car with only a moderate amount of mileage (150,000 miles really isn't a lot and he should be able to hit 200,000 miles very easily) that he intends to continue using well into the future. The OP has mentioned that the car is "in great condition."

He's not asking about a beater. He's asking about a car he intends to keep using for a long time yet.

ZV

 

[soccerballtux]

r12 is very expensive if you can find it and you have to have a license to buy it.

its cheap on craigslist.

 

[pcgeek11]

Too much freon will also give you the same symptoms...

 

[Pacfanweb]

Turning on the A/C in the old 929 answers a couple of questions I never knew to ask.
1)Can A/C's remain sealed? Yes. For decades.
2) I keep hearing about how R-134A sucks compared to R-12. Is this true? Yes. This thing is colder than anything I have ever been in. This used to be the norm. Name any new vehicle. It won't match it. Doesn't matter the engine, compressor size or the name behind the badge.

Bet a hundred my 04 Suburban will match it. It's got the best A/C system I've ever had in a car.
You can start it up in 90+ degree weather and it'll cool immediately just sitting at idle. Most cars you have to get moving to get it to cool. And you CANNOT stand it if you start driving...you WILL turn it down or the temp up. I don't care how hot it is outside.

The difference between the two refrigerants is overblown, and any real-world differences are more a result of the way the system is designed than which refrigerant it uses.

Newer cars run hotter, have hotter thermostats. That directly affects the A/C, especially at idle. Newer cars have much more tightly packed engine compartments, which affects the A/C. Newer cars have less efficient aluminum radiators, with plastic tanks. They have smaller A/C condensers.

These things are somewhat compensated for by having powerful electric fans moving a lot of air, but not completely.

Bottom line is, there's a lot more going on under the hoods of today's car, so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison of an older car's A/C vs. a newer one. I saw plenty of cars 25-30 years ago with A/C systems that were in perfect working order but were just not that cool. Same as today.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Mxylplyx gave the best answer for you to start with, grab a can of freon at your local parts store(one that comes with a hose and connector), charge it back up and see how long it lasts.

NOTE:Wear safety glasses and gloves.

Between vehicle vibration and bumps freon can leak ever so slowly over time, so a recharge can last a while with no repairs.

A vehicle gets alot more abuse then a refrigerator.

This is good advice. A benefit of most parts store freon is that it has dye in it, and if it leaks back out in short order, it should be easy to find the leak.

Some leaks cannot be found with a vacuum test, or with a leak detector. Typically these are in the high pressure side of the system, and only leak under very high pressure, which the system isn't under all the time.
The original Explorers had a problem with the condensers leaking....but you couldn't find it with any sort of test. Ran all the techs crazy...we'd pull a vacuum, replace all the O-rings, it would hold perfectly, and a couple of weeks later it'd be back with no freon.
Finally, we installed dye in one and sent it back in the wild to let it leak out.

Dye wasn't in the freon then. You had to put it in there manually with the system evacuated and open, then recharge it, give it back to the customer and wait for the freon to leak out, then look for it with a black light.

That technology has come a long way since then.

 

[SSSnail]

Did you try Googling? Recently, the A/C in my car was acting a bit funny, basically it was not cooling properly, and only the driver's side was mildly cool and nothing cool was coming out of the passenger. After a bit of searching around, the solution was to go buy a damn refrigerant at any autoparts store, and charge it up. The can has a gauge on it, which will tell you how much pressure is in the system. Well, this is largely dependent on which type of refrigerant your car is using.

The can cost me $35, and the A/C is now working as it should. I would suggest you search around a bit, do your homework and fix your car.

 

[dawp]

its cheap on craigslist.

last time I checked craigslist wasn't an option.

 

[Ferzerp]

To the people saying overcharging causes the same symptoms...

Sure, but how would it have gotten overcharged over time?

 

[foghorn67]

Bet a hundred my 04 Suburban will match it. It's got the best A/C system I've ever had in a car.
You can start it up in 90+ degree weather and it'll cool immediately just sitting at idle. Most cars you have to get moving to get it to cool. And you CANNOT stand it if you start driving...you WILL turn it down or the temp up. I don't care how hot it is outside.

The difference between the two refrigerants is overblown, and any real-world differences are more a result of the way the system is designed than which refrigerant it uses.

Newer cars run hotter, have hotter thermostats. That directly affects the A/C, especially at idle. Newer cars have much more tightly packed engine compartments, which affects the A/C. Newer cars have less efficient aluminum radiators, with plastic tanks. They have smaller A/C condensers.

These things are somewhat compensated for by having powerful electric fans moving a lot of air, but not completely.

Bottom line is, there's a lot more going on under the hoods of today's car, so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison of an older car's A/C vs. a newer one. I saw plenty of cars 25-30 years ago with A/C systems that were in perfect working order but were just not that cool. Same as today.

Nope. Nothing on it. We measured vent temps a few summers ago. They were quite ridiculous.
The best was my friends 1500 truck. Same vent temps, but a small cab.

 

[Q]

I'm not very car savvy (mechanically), and am taking it to a trusted mechanic that only deals with Japanese cars later this week. Will have them check for leaks, and go from there. Thanks everyone.