Fresh documents from U.S. Army acquired by ACLU paint devastating picture of continued abuse by U.S. forces

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
http://rawstory.com/
ACLU to release new documents acquired from Bush administration tonight: Developing...
U.S. Army documents show soldiers covered up abuse even after Abu Ghraib...Detainee coerced into dropping charges of abuse before release....Soldiers posed in mock executions of detainees.... More abuse revealed in Iraq, Afghanistan....

One of these days, the Bush administration will demand accountability from its own members.


Or am I just dreaming?


Here's the full story
Fresh documents from U.S. Army acquired by ACLU paint devastating picture of continued abuse by U.S. forces
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=95
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I, so what if they made fun of a few terrorists?

So what if a few suspects got pranks pulled on them?

If you're going to hold someone accountable, that better be Rumsfeld or Bush, don't go after these courgeous soldiers. In fact, if it takes a bit of humiliation to get these terrorist thugs to speak, then by all means do it.

Why doesn't the ACLU, or any left wing groups speak out when the terrorist thugs saw off heads of men and women? And they possibly might behead the Italian female journalist they are holding. I haven't heard one word from the left wing wacko groups over the terrorist attacks that kill dozens of Iraqis each day.

The enemy isn't Bush, the enemies are the Islamic terrorists.

Looks to me our priorities are all mixed up.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
it's good that the ACLU is keeping the Administration on its best behaviour. But I could care less.
 

VTrider

Golden Member
Nov 21, 1999
1,358
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I

Don't take this the wrong way, but can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me?

 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: VTrider
Originally posted by: raildogg
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I

Don't take this the wrong way, but can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me?

In Afghanistan and in Iraq. Don't forget the police and the military who keep us on safe on the homeland as well. Hats off to them for not letting another attack occur after 9/11.

Their life is always at risk as long as there are evil Islamic terrorist thugs out there. And so is ours.
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I, so what if they made fun of a few terrorists?

So what if a few suspects got pranks pulled on them?

If you're going to hold someone accountable, that better be Rumsfeld or Bush, don't go after these courgeous soldiers. In fact, if it takes a bit of humiliation to get these terrorist thugs to speak, then by all means do it.

Why doesn't the ACLU, or any left wing groups speak out when the terrorist thugs saw off heads of men and women? And they possibly might behead the Italian female journalist they are holding. I haven't heard one word from the left wing wacko groups over the terrorist attacks that kill dozens of Iraqis each day.

The enemy isn't Bush, the enemies are the Islamic terrorists.

Looks to me our priorities are all mixed up.

I could care less about pranks. I do care about rape and murder.
Maybe the ACLU doesn't speak out about terrorists sawing off head because it has nothing to do with American Civil Liberties.
Is it possible to have more than one enemy at a time? Do you have to focus on only one at a time?

Edit: I am in no way insinuating Bush is the enemy.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I, so what if they made fun of a few terrorists?

So what if a few suspects got pranks pulled on them?
How about you grow some humility, dignity, and respect for the truth and drop your hateful and xenophobic prejudices?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
2/17/2005
Fresh documents from U.S. Army acquired by ACLU paint devastating picture of continued abuse by U.S. forces
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=95
2/17/2005
Fresh documents from U.S. Army acquired by ACLU paint devastating picture of continued abuse by U.S. forces
Filed under: General? site admin @ 8:50 pm Email This


Detainee coerced into dropping charges of abuse before release

RAW STORY

The following embargo has been broken by some outlets in other countries; as such RAW STORY is releasing this release sent today from the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU told us earlier today that the embargo would be lifted if other outlets broke the embargo.

The documents related to this abuse will be available within the next few hours on their website, and a link will be posted on the Raw Story front page.

It should be noted that the abuse reported here came after the scandal at Abu Ghraib. The documents are set to splash on the front pages of major newspapers around the United States on Friday.

All told, the documents number more than a thousand pages.

U.S. Soldiers Posed in Photos of Mock Executions of Detainees; More Cases of Abuse Revealed in Newly Released Documents

EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE
February 18, 2005, 12:01 AM

NEW YORK?The American Civil Liberties Union today released files obtained from the Army revealing previously undisclosed allegations of abuse by U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Among the documents are reports that a detainee who was beaten and seriously injured was forced to drop his claims in order to be released from custody.

?The torture of detainees is too widespread and systemic to be dismissed as the rogue actions of a few misguided individuals,? said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero. ?The American public deserves to know which high-level government officials are ultimately responsible for the torture conducted in our name.?

The release of these documents follows a federal court order that directed the Defense Department and other government agencies to comply with a year-old request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) filed by the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans for Peace. The New York Civil Liberties Union is co-counsel in the case.

In one file released today, an Iraqi detainee claimed that Americans in civilian clothing beat him in the head and stomach, dislocated his arms, ?stepped on [his] nose until it [broke],? stuck an unloaded pistol in his mouth and fired the trigger, choked him with a rope and beat his leg with a baseball bat. Medical reports corroborated the detainee?s account, stating that the detainee had a broken nose, fractured leg, and scars on his stomach. In addition, soldiers confirmed that Task Force 20 interrogators wearing civilian clothing had interrogated the detainee. However, after initially reporting the abuse, the detainee said that he was forced by an American soldier to sign a statement denouncing the claims or else be kept in detention indefinitely. He agreed.

An investigator who reviewed the signed statement concluded that ?[t]his statement, alone, is a prima facie indication of threats.? However, despite the medical report and testimony from other soldiers, the criminal file was ultimately closed on the grounds that the investigation had ?failed to prove or disprove? the offenses.

Another file released today reports that U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan posed for photographs of mock executions with hooded and bound detainees, and that some of these photographs were intentionally destroyed after the Abu Ghraib scandal to avoid ?another public outrage.?

The file concerns an investigation into the discovery of a CD during an office clean-up in Afghanistan in July 2004. The CD contained digital images of what appeared to be abuse and maltreatment of detainees in and around Fire Base Tycze in southern Afghanistan. The pictures showed uniformed soldiers pointing pistols and M-4 rifles at the heads and backs of bound and hooded detainees, and other abuses such as holding a detainee?s head against the wall of a cage. One sergeant stated that he had also seen pictures on Army computers of detainees being kicked, hit or inhumanely treated while in U.S. custody. An Army Specialist and team leader with four soldiers assigned under him admitted that similar photographs had been destroyed after images of torture at Abu Ghraib prison were leaked to the media.

?These files provide more evidence, if any were needed, that abuse was not limited to Abu Ghraib,? said ACLU staff attorney Jameel Jaffer. ?Unfortunately, it?s now clear that the government failed to investigate many of these abuses until the Abu Ghraib photographs came to light.?

Other photos discovered during the investigation showed bound U.S. soldiers in what is described as ?an activity called PUC?ing (Person Under Control) a ritualistic activity done on birthdays, re-enlistments, and similar events, by fellow platoon members.? The photographs showed hooded soldiers lying on the ground in the dirt with their hands and feet bound, while other soldiers poured water on them. The act apparently simulated the treatment of detainees who were designated as needing extra ?control.?

Additional cases of abuse revealed in the investigative files released today include:

· Senior Psychological Operations (PsyOps) officers in Afghanistan reported witnessing indiscriminate assaults by Special Forces on civilians during raids in May 2004 in the villages of Gurjay and Sukhagen. Abuses included hitting and kicking villagers in the head, chest, back and stomach, and threatening to shoot them. An investigation into the allegations was closed, citing failure to ?prove or disprove? the offenses because the victims and villagers could not be interviewed.

· In Iraq, an investigation found probable cause that two U.S. soldiers committed the offense of assault when they punched and kicked a civilian whom they picked up at a roadblock, while a sergeant took pictures and videotaped part of the abuse. The soldiers then transported the man to an Iraqi prison, where they watched Iraqi police further abuse the detainee and kick him in the ribs before they left him there. A commander?s report was pending in September 2004, and no punishment was recorded in the file.

Attorneys for the ACLU and other organizations named in the lawsuit will appear in federal court in New York on February 22 to address, among other things, the Defense Department?s response to the FOIA request. The ACLU has previously charged that the department is unlawfully withholding several documents pertaining to the treatment of detainees, as well as photographic and video evidence. In the last two months, the Defense Department has turned over 21,600 pages of documents. However, more than 16,600 of these pages were already publicly available on the Internet.

?The Defense Department continues to stonewall and to withhold thousands of documents inappropriately,? said Jaffer. ?Astoundingly, it seems to be the Defense Department?s view that the public simply does not have a right to know what the department?s policies were or who put them in place.?

The ACLU?s Romero urged Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on Tuesday to appoint a special counsel to investigate and, if warranted, prosecute civilians for their involvement in the torture of detainees.

In related news, a federal judge earlier this month rejected an attempt by the Central Intelligence Agency to indefinitely delay the processing and release of

critical documents pertaining to torture. The CIA has indicated that it will appeal this decision. According to news reports, the CIA is currently seeking to scale back its role in detaining and interrogating suspected terrorists who are being held abroad.

The lawsuit is being handled by Lawrence Lustberg and Megan Lewis of the New Jersey-based law firm Gibbons, Del Deo, Dolan, Griffinger & Vecchione, P.C. Other attorneys in the case are Jaffer, Amrit Singh, Judy Rabinovitz and Omar Jadwat of the ACLU; Art Eisenberg and Beth Haroules of the NYCLU; and Barbara Olshansky and Jeff Fogel of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
Goddamn it!! It's time for HEADS TO ROLL in the Bush Admin!!


:| :| :|
 

VTrider

Golden Member
Nov 21, 1999
1,358
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: VTrider
Originally posted by: raildogg
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I

Don't take this the wrong way, but can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me?

In Afghanistan and in Iraq. Don't forget the police and the military who keep us on safe on the homeland as well. Hats off to them for not letting another attack occur after 9/11.

Their life is always at risk as long as there are evil Islamic terrorist thugs out there. And so is ours.


Yes, they are indeed fighting evil Islamic terrorist thugs in Afghanistan, home of the Taliban, Al Qaeda and Bin Laden ofcourse. They are definately risking their lives for you and me over there and I for one salute them. Seems my question still lingers in my head, I'll rephrase it to better suit my question.

Can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me? (EDIT: In Iraq)
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: VTrider
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: VTrider
Originally posted by: raildogg
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I

Don't take this the wrong way, but can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me?

In Afghanistan and in Iraq. Don't forget the police and the military who keep us on safe on the homeland as well. Hats off to them for not letting another attack occur after 9/11.

Their life is always at risk as long as there are evil Islamic terrorist thugs out there. And so is ours.


Yes, they are indeed fighting evil Islamic terrorist thugs in Afghanistan, home of the Taliban, Al Qaeda and Bin Laden ofcourse. They are definately risking their lives for you and me over there and I for one salute them. Seems my question still lingers in my head, I'll rephrase it to better suit my question.

Can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me? (EDIT: In Iraq)

whether you agree with the war or not, they are doing it so you dont have to
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Listen, if groups like the ACLU were this aggressive in going after our servicemen during WW2, 2/3's of our servicemen over there would have been tried as war criminals.

Abuse of enemies of America occured during WW2 much more than it does in today's times. If these groups were around during WW2, they would have been shut down for interfering with the war effort. Now I'm not saying the ACLU should be shut down, in fact I agree with some of its cases, but please be realistic. The ACLU is a great American entity that serves its purpose well.

It took the murder of 200,000 Japanese to end the war, if these groups existed back then, they would fought against that with all they could. They would have called it a crime against humanity, but in reality it saved more people from death than it actually killed.

It took a courageous Democrat to end the war. Something rare is today's times.
 

VTrider

Golden Member
Nov 21, 1999
1,358
0
0
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: VTrider
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: VTrider
Originally posted by: raildogg
I'm sick of the abuse our soldiers are taking from these dirty rats. They are risking their lives over there for you and I

Don't take this the wrong way, but can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me?

In Afghanistan and in Iraq. Don't forget the police and the military who keep us on safe on the homeland as well. Hats off to them for not letting another attack occur after 9/11.

Their life is always at risk as long as there are evil Islamic terrorist thugs out there. And so is ours.


Yes, they are indeed fighting evil Islamic terrorist thugs in Afghanistan, home of the Taliban, Al Qaeda and Bin Laden ofcourse. They are definately risking their lives for you and me over there and I for one salute them. Seems my question still lingers in my head, I'll rephrase it to better suit my question.

Can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me? (EDIT: In Iraq)

whether you agree with the war or not, they are doing it so you dont have to


Ummm, that's the point in question there Nick185 - IT, we are talking about IT, and IT in this context is the OP suggesting that the soliders are fighting for you and me over in IRAQ. So once again I ask the question.

Can somebody please explain to me how they are risking (the soldiers) their lives for you and me in Iraq?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Listen, if groups like the ACLU were this aggressive in going after our servicemen during WW2, 2/3's of our servicemen over there would have been tried as war criminals.

Abuse of enemies of America occured during WW2 much more than it does in today's times. If these groups were around during WW2, they would have been shut down for interfering with the war effort. Now I'm not saying the ACLU should be shut down, in fact I agree with some of its cases, but please be realistic. The ACLU is a great American entity that serves its purpose well.

It took the murder of 200,000 Japanese to end the war, if these groups existed back then, they would fought against that with all they could. They would have called it a crime against humanity, but in reality it saved more people from death than it actually killed.

It took a courageous Democrat to end the war. Something rare is today's times.
So, you support violating the Geneva Conventions?
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
RailDog, one of the reasons I opposed this war right down to my sox was because of what it does to us. The abuse by the soldiers as completely predictable. Other things were also completely predictable. Do you recall the story of the U.S. tank shelling the hotel where only press people were residing? The tank crew's explanation was that "There was gunfire coming from there." The uniform testimony of the many, many retporters staying at the hotel was that there was no gunfire coming from the hotel. These things happen in war, which is a major reason for not starting one. Threatened by Iraq my a$$.

Think carefully here, did you attempt to minimze the current abuse of Iraqi prisoners by citing WW II abuse? Yeah, that makes sense. No wonder people call me stupid as a post, I didn't see the connection between previous torture and abuse and the Iraqi torture and abuse.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
raildogg

So what if a few suspects got pranks pulled on them?

I'm sure our G.I.s will be happy to hear that such things are OK when they are captured.

It took the murder of 200,000 Japanese to end the war, if these groups existed back then, they would fought against that with all they could. They would have called it a crime against humanity, but in reality it saved more people from death than it actually killed.

So, the use of a big bomb instead of lots of little ones in time of war was "murder"? You can't be serious. Maybe I might consider discussing whether the firebombing of Dresden could be considered "murder", but Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I don't think so.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: raildogg
Listen, if groups like the ACLU were this aggressive in going after our servicemen during WW2, 2/3's of our servicemen over there would have been tried as war criminals.

Abuse of enemies of America occured during WW2 much more than it does in today's times. If these groups were around during WW2, they would have been shut down for interfering with the war effort. Now I'm not saying the ACLU should be shut down, in fact I agree with some of its cases, but please be realistic. The ACLU is a great American entity that serves its purpose well.

It took the murder of 200,000 Japanese to end the war, if these groups existed back then, they would fought against that with all they could. They would have called it a crime against humanity, but in reality it saved more people from death than it actually killed.

It took a courageous Democrat to end the war. Something rare is today's times.
So, you support violating the Geneva Conventions?

Not just Geneva Convention... U.S. Code as well.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Or am I just dreaming?

You are. Instead of "Shrubbie" or "Chimp" you should call this guy "Teflon". No scandal will ever stick to him, his followers are simply to rabid.

Sorry.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
What does a cival liberties union have to do with acquiring documents about abuse in the military?!?!?!?!?

Shouldnt they be off fighting for somebodies right to speak their mind?
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
What does a cival liberties union have to do with acquiring documents about abuse in the military?!?!?!?!?

Shouldnt they be off fighting for somebodies right to speak their mind?

The ACLU has been very busy fighting to protect the rights of a certain fat, lying, hypocrite junkie with a nationally syndicated radio show.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
The ACLU has been very busy fighting to protect the rights of a certain fat, lying, hypocrite junkie with a nationally syndicated radio show.

So are they taking time off from that to acquire information about abuse?
 

irwincur

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2002
1,899
0
0
ACLU, enough said. The center of the anti-military movement since 1960.

Where in the ACLU charter does it say that they are to protect non Americans, not on American soil, under the American constitution? After all, it is their job to uphold the constitution, which in most legal opinions only applies to those that live under its guideline.

Unless now the liberals feel safe is saying that the American consitution applies to everyone in the world - effectively claiming control of everyone in the world. Seems to me that this is what they are trying to do.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
The ACLU has been very busy fighting to protect the rights of a certain fat, lying, hypocrite junkie with a nationally syndicated radio show.

So are they taking time off from that to acquire information about abuse?

No, they're taking time off because in truth they can't stand helping that fat bastard so they're revealing the true nature of Bush's use of torture as recompense.

 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
Genx87

Protecting our civil liberties includes having an idea of what our government is doing. This administration long ago set the tone of being secrative and seeming to cover up for wrongdoers. The public has the right to see these documents and should decide who in the government is guilty of issuing illegal orders. That the documents are about abuse is coincidental; it is a search for the truth that is being concealed.
 
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