fresh home build coming soon

[skyking]

Maybe so. I can't find any mention of siding material in the prescriptive design guidelines unless it's used as bracing.

Just go through the prescriptive design and you either choose less than 8 lb per square foot or more than 8 lb per square foot.
I had done my calculations assuming that I was going to be under 8 lb but basic framing is 7 lb with 2x6s and any of that concrete-based siding kicks it up over nine.
The solution is pretty simple, I just need to get an engineered set of drawings that everybody else that has any experience works with, and those engineers can waive their engineering wand and Viola!
Prescriptive design is necessarily conservative. You give Cletus a tool to design his house, and you give Mr inspector this same tool so that he can inspect it and be happy that it won't fall down on grandma in a high wind.
Inspectors rely on engineering to a great extent.
An architect could take my same building footprint and put giant glass across huge swaths of it. Not saying I want huge swaths of glass but they do it. They figure out the bracing elsewhere.
They also don't have to be as conservative as prescriptive design.

 

[skyking]

Depending on the quote I get from the foundation engineer, I may have him draw up the whole plans and open up my wallet a little bit and let him provide me a set of stamped drawings. All the drama is over at that point.
Now that I have dug into vinyl siding some, I may prefer it over hardie plank.
Hardie is heavy, requires painting and caulking on a regular basis, and I have personally seen it grow some nasties here in the shaded side in the PNW.
I can get insulated vinyl from Certainteed that can be varied across the face of the house. I could do the entry in a board and batten look, lap for the main part and shingles up on the gable ends. It is color through and through and does not require caulking.

 

[Greenman]

Check the foot note attached to the wall load statement. I read it completely differently than you.
I've seen hardiplank fail in moderate winds. If you get a gust flowing up the side of the building it can lever the siding out far enough to rip the nails through the board. I never had it happen, and I think the reason is that I always installed it with roofing nails. The larger contact patch holds a lot better.
If you get it pre primed, and paint with 100% acrylic, you should get 15 years out of the first paint job.

 

[skyking]

I read it completely differently than you.

it does not matter how we read it, my one and only inspector gave me the heads-up about it. We have a great working relationship so far. He has looked over all my stuff with no permit fees changing hands, and has been graciously collaborating with me on the whole thing. I think these kinds of red lines are the best, the ones that never happened.

 

[herm0016]

@Greenman that wont happen if they follow the high wind nailing schedule.
My house has it followed and no problems in a very windy area, we see 50+ on a monthly basis and have seen 100+ in the 1.5 years we have been here.

I have seen vinyl blow right off a house also. it's all somewhat loosely attached due to thermal expansion and has no seal from wind getting behind it. that's why I don't see how "insulated" vinyl can actually make any difference if wind can just blow right on through, as it should with a rain screen like any of the siding we are talking about. They all should have a drainage plane behind them. a proper drainage plane behind LP or Hardi will also make the finish last longer.

 

[skyking]

yes it all starts with a good house wrap that is sealed up tight and especially at the windows.

 

[skyking]

I can add some engineered simpson shear panels, but at that point I may as well pay for the full meal deal.
It really boils down to the siding decision at this time.
I'll go interview "cheap shitty vinyl siding" at the local showrooms @herm0016
My spouse likes the idea of less expensive lighter easier to install prefinished no caulking etc etc.

 

[herm0016]

I don't know about up there, but around here you barely see it at all. it's too cold, we get too much hail, and it's too windy and we have too much UV for it to last.

house wrap is ok, if you get the details correct, you don't let it stay uncovered, etc... its a lot easier to get the details right with a coated OSB (zip, or LP's version) or a peal and stick product

 

[skyking]

It is quite a premium to get the coated stuff, and it is not common around here. LOL there is a reason we live where we do. I have to drive 200 miles east to get as cold as it was that November morning. Virtually no hail either.
I checked, I can get 80 sheets of zip sheathing for 23.77 each
regular osb is ~10 each.
That's an $1100 premium and have not priced the tape yet. The wrap is about 342.
EDIT: the zip tape will cost as much as all the house wrap. They are really proud of that tape.
It may still happen that way. I could pay for it in the savings I get using vinyl siding.
I searched for LP's weatherlogic. No luck there.

 

[Greenman]

@Greenman that wont happen if they follow the high wind nailing schedule.
My house has it followed and no problems in a very windy area, we see 50+ on a monthly basis and have seen 100+ in the 1.5 years we have been here.

I have seen vinyl blow right off a house also. it's all somewhat loosely attached due to thermal expansion and has no seal from wind getting behind it. that's why I don't see how "insulated" vinyl can actually make any difference if wind can just blow right on through, as it should with a rain screen like any of the siding we are talking about. They all should have a drainage plane behind them. a proper drainage plane behind LP or Hardi will also make the finish last longer.

I know almost nothing about vinyl siding. It simply wasn't used where I worked.
I've hung miles of Hardiplank, and overall have no issue with the material. I've seen several trade discussions about Smart Side that we're very positive, but never had the opportunity to use it.
I talked myself out of a project that had huge rain screen walls done with Ipe. I explained to the owner and architect that because of the location of the house they were going to have an entire ecosystem behind the stuff, and that it was going to be an expensive nightmare to maintain. Four years later it looked horrible and the owner was looking at complete replacement.

 

[skyking]

I can also cure my braced wall issues with 3 of these:

~$1800 total

I'd put them in the eastern portion of the 3 wall lines in question.
They go midwall, and the stemwall is tall there. It is mudsill, subfloor, and wall. The engineered anchors get set in the wall pour.
To the west on the daylight end we drop the stemwall down so we can tail the joists right on a mudsill. It is so much easier to run wiring etc. That east end, I would have to buck out little wire channels. Thank goodness there is no plumbing over to the east to deal with.
Then I could go smartside or regular hardie plank or whatever floats my boat, up to about 8 PSF for the siding.
I already have the engineer on the basement, he could draw those simpson strongwalls in easily.

 

[herm0016]

I know almost nothing about vinyl siding. It simply wasn't used where I worked.
I've hung miles of Hardiplank, and overall have no issue with the material. I've seen several trade discussions about Smart Side that we're very positive, but never had the opportunity to use it.
I talked myself out of a project that had huge rain screen walls done with Ipe. I explained to the owner and architect that because of the location of the house they were going to have an entire ecosystem behind the stuff, and that it was going to be an expensive nightmare to maintain. Four years later it looked horrible and the owner was looking at complete replacement.

yea, i am not a fan of a gapped rainscreen like what you are talking about, i am just saying that siding products are not weather/water/air barriers.

look at the shear and water absobtion values for ZIP vs commodity osb. Commodity osb is also called vertical mulch for a reason.
did you also price the proper tape for the house wrap? check out the install guides and see if you have ever seen one detailed correctly.
even if you don't go for zip, I would sheath in Advantech and not commodity osb. do you really want to use an inferior product? is 1000 bucks on this project going to change your life?

see page 8:

https://www.fp-supply.com/cmss_files/imagelibrary/Zip%20System/Architect%20Brochure%20Part%201.pdf

 

[skyking]

page 8 is about subfloor. It does not describe the properties of sheathing.
Aw hell that whole PDF is about flooring! come on man.
I will probably do something like the advantech at the subfloor.

 

[Greenman]

yea, i am not a fan of a gapped rainscreen like what you are talking about, i am just saying that siding products are not weather/water/air barriers.

look at the shear and water absobtion values for ZIP vs commodity osb. Commodity osb is also called vertical mulch for a reason.
did you also price the proper tape for the house wrap? check out the install guides and see if you have ever seen one detailed correctly.
even if you don't go for zip, I would sheath in Advantech and not commodity osb. do you really want to use an inferior product? is 1000 bucks on this project going to change your life?

see page 8:

https://www.fp-supply.com/cmss_files/imagelibrary/Zip%20System/Architect%20Brochure%20Part%201.pdf

Zip sheathing wasn't available in my area. One place would order it in, but they wanted a premium price for doing it. I always used Tyvek with taped seams and stick on flashing that I don't remember the name of.
My last project was an 80 something year old house. Stucco exterior, and the tar paper was like ancient parchment, but it didn't leak. I often wonder how all this new stuff will hold up over the years.

 

[herm0016]

page 8 is about subfloor. It does not describe the properties of sheathing.
Aw hell that whole PDF is about flooring! come on man.
I will probably do something like the advantech at the subfloor.

zip is the same stuff just thinner.

 

[skyking]

I have always liked the idea of better subfloor. Ironically I want to keep it pretty live. We are not designing for tile or high L/ deflection numbers for my wife's arthritis. A really stiff floor or a slab on grade is not as friendly when you have rheumatoid.
I am picking TJ's that are in the L/480 range, the 11 7/8" 110 series @16 OC. and the longest spans are ~18'6"
it is a little stiffer than the code L/360, but not what I would do for a tile floor. I went the full L/720 in our bathroom remodel with tile over electric heat.

 

[herm0016]

I have always liked the idea of better subfloor. Ironically I want to keep it pretty live. We are not designing for tile or high L/ deflection numbers for my wife's arthritis. A really stiff floor or a slab on grade is not as friendly when you have rheumatoid.
I am picking TJ's that are in the L/480 range, the 11 7/8" 110 series @16 OC. and the longest spans are ~18'6"
it is a little stiffer than the code L/360, but not what I would do for a tile floor. I went the full L/720 in our bathroom remodel with tile over electric heat.

i get that. i really liked the LVP from metrofloor with a foam backer. held up really well also. rollie chairs and our dogs made no marks over 2 years.

 

[skyking]

Love that! I think the foam or cork backs will help her.

 

[BoomerD]

I'll only say...our current house has vinyl siding. Never had it before...will NEVER have it again. It's cold, it rattles like crazy in the wind, it's LOUD when we have heavy rain and/or hail, and while I don't have to paint, it does have to be pressure washed every couple of years...just like any type of siding. It's about 25 years old, still looks good, but it ain't maintenance free. I'm sure you're looking at a much better product than what they used when this house was built...but my experience with this stuff has completely turned me off of vinyl.

 

[skyking]

I went back through the bracing calculator and I need 2 strongwalls front and back and 1 on the east. It comes to about 4100 and shipping. The foundation engineer can pencil them in to his design.
That opens us up to any material less than ~8 PSF.

 

[Greenman]

In the county where I worked, as soon as a strongwall was on the plans they had to be stamped by an engineer. On top of that, no engineer would do only one part of a project, they did the entire structure or none of it.
Must be nice to build in a place that uses a little logic in the process.

 

[skyking]

That remains to be seen lol. I just emailed the inspector.
I already have that engineer, probably on contract for the foundation so we'll see. If he's not going to charge me too much to draw up my already designed house and stamp it, I'll go with him for the whole meal deal and end up with CAD drawings too

 

[skyking]

I talked with another engineer more local to me, and about half the price. he needs a whole bunch of details so I need to get cracking on the prints. I am at the point of paying somebody to put it all into CAD who has experience with this kind of construction. I told him I would get it fleshed out in two weeks.
One of the nebulous details is the outside staircase to the sundeck.
I could go with steel and concrete butterfly steps like this:

Or more simple stringers like this. I like the expanded metal toe kicks. Dogs prefer toe kicks over open stairs.


I could do wood but it can be a maintenance nightmare.

 

[Greenman]

What exactly is it you need? Floor plans and elevations? I can do those.

 

[skyking]

I have to get all the dimensions and details in, the TJI specs, beams, headers all that.