friend on suicide watch

[Dari]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: numark

Originally posted by: Dari
Just because you're suicidal doesn't mean you're irresponsible. You may be selfish, but not irresponsible. It's his decision.

EDIT: Suicide is pretty commonplace outside of Western/African culture.

As someone who's extensively worked with mentally ill people, some of which have attempted suicide, describing someone as "selfish" is extremely unfair. As mentioned before, in most cases of non-euthanasia related suicide attempts, people have severe mental illnesses that alter their normal judgment. To call them "selfish" implies that they made a conscious, reasoned, well-thought-out decision with perfect mental clarity.

Severe mental illnesses don't work that way. Things seem insurmountable, and it's compounded by the idea that you shouldn't or can't reach out to other people. Suicide seems like the only option, when in fact it's not. Most people, once they receive treatment, see their situations in a different light, and don't see suicide as the appropriate option.

So please, reconsider your idea that suicide is an inherently conscious, "selfish" act. Popular beliefs like that only add to the stigma that mental illness and suicide attempts have in our culture.

Fair enough. If a person is mentally handicapped, then I guess it's ok to stop them. But if they're fine, let them do as they please. It can solve so many problems at once for the individual.

Killing oneself solves problems? Lol. No one in their right mind wants to kill themselves IMO. Goes against every basic instinct we have.

It can if you think about the plight your existence is having on your friends and family or if you kill yourself so that others may live.

There are other ways to remove yourself from their lives if that's really necessary. Even if you really are nothing but a drain on society at large, if you can recognize it, you can do something about it. Killing oneself is the easy way out. I find it ironic that the Bushido code and other such beliefs have such stiff punishments for cowardice, yet when faced with shame they prescribe the most cowardly escape method possible.

Killing yourself is not cowardly. Like you yourself said, no one wants to do it. It must be terrible what may be going through the individual's mind. Nevertheless, provided he's a responsible adult, the final decision rests with him and society should accept his decision.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Dari
Just because you're suicidal doesn't mean you're irresponsible. You may be selfish, but not irresponsible. It's his decision.

EDIT: Suicide is pretty commonplace outside of Western/African culture.

The first post was pretty clear that he struggled with occassional bouts of depression, but otherwise was an upbeat guy.

So that means making him a prisoner of his own body? And what happens if this 'watch' fails? Who gets the blame?

He may have checked himself in on his own. Why be so presumptuous...so you can listen to yourself talk? (in an e- sort of way)

 

[numark]

Originally posted by: Dari
It can if you think about the plight your existence is having on your friends and family or if you kill yourself so that others may live.

I think you'll find that the two options you portrayed are somewhat problematic when it comes down to it. In reverse order:

1. Killing yourself so others may live: How often does this come up, really? Maybe in wartime, or times of genocide, yes. But is this really what we're talking about here? No one has said that anything even close to 0.1% of situations involve this. To use such exceedingly rare examples only cheapens the painful experiences and thoughts that most every suicidal person in America experiences.

2. "The plight your existence is having on your friends" is just another indicator of severe depression. People's lives aren't based on an eternal struggle to constantly please their friends, and saying that your existence is such a drain on other people that you're better off dead is just a way of expressing your severe depressive thoughts. If non-mentally ill people have disagreements or disputes with their friends, they either resolve them or find new friends. Mental illness causes those same people to believe that they are a burden on their friends, and the only "solution" is to kill themselves. That's not rational, and it's a thought process that often is changed with appropriate treatment.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: numark

Originally posted by: Dari
It can if you think about the plight your existence is having on your friends and family or if you kill yourself so that others may live.

I think you'll find that the two options you portrayed are somewhat problematic when it comes down to it. In reverse order:

1. Killing yourself so others may live: How often does this come up, really? Maybe in wartime, or times of genocide, yes. But is this really what we're talking about here? No one has said that anything even close to 0.1% of situations involve this. To use such exceedingly rare examples only cheapens the painful experiences and thoughts that most every suicidal person in America experiences.

2. "The plight your existence is having on your friends" is just another indicator of severe depression. People's lives aren't based on an eternal struggle to constantly please their friends, and saying that your existence is such a drain on other people that you're better off dead is just a way of expressing your severe depressive thoughts. If non-mentally ill people have disagreements or disputes with their friends, they either resolve them or find new friends. Mental illness causes those same people to believe that they are a burden on their friends, and the only "solution" is to kill themselves. That's not rational, and it's a thought process that often is changed with appropriate treatment.

Debt usually has a habit of disappearing when the debtor kills himself. And debt can be a heavy burden for many families.

 

[Scrodes]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Dari
Just because you're suicidal doesn't mean you're irresponsible. You may be selfish, but not irresponsible. It's his decision.

EDIT: Suicide is pretty commonplace outside of Western/African culture.

The first post was pretty clear that he struggled with occassional bouts of depression, but otherwise was an upbeat guy.

So that means making him a prisoner of his own body? And what happens if this 'watch' fails? Who gets the blame?

The suicide watch dose sometimes fail, but its rare. Hospitals and wards are usually off the hook when it comes to liability, the plaintiff has to prove negligence. This is hard to do because the nurses and doctors go to great lengths to follow procedure and they keep detailed logs and video recordings to document this.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: numark

Originally posted by: Dari
It can if you think about the plight your existence is having on your friends and family or if you kill yourself so that others may live.

I think you'll find that the two options you portrayed are somewhat problematic when it comes down to it. In reverse order:

1. Killing yourself so others may live: How often does this come up, really? Maybe in wartime, or times of genocide, yes. But is this really what we're talking about here? No one has said that anything even close to 0.1% of situations involve this. To use such exceedingly rare examples only cheapens the painful experiences and thoughts that most every suicidal person in America experiences.

2. "The plight your existence is having on your friends" is just another indicator of severe depression. People's lives aren't based on an eternal struggle to constantly please their friends, and saying that your existence is such a drain on other people that you're better off dead is just a way of expressing your severe depressive thoughts. If non-mentally ill people have disagreements or disputes with their friends, they either resolve them or find new friends. Mental illness causes those same people to believe that they are a burden on their friends, and the only "solution" is to kill themselves. That's not rational, and it's a thought process that often is changed with appropriate treatment.

Debt usually has a habit of disappearing when the debtor kills himself. And debt can be a heavy burden for many families.

Last I checked debt was transferred upon death. Everything you own is sold (as determined by some lawyer or judge) to pay for your funeral and remaining debt, provided other people don't step up to pay it. The remainder is divided up as per your will.

 

[numark]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: numark

Originally posted by: Dari
It can if you think about the plight your existence is having on your friends and family or if you kill yourself so that others may live.

I think you'll find that the two options you portrayed are somewhat problematic when it comes down to it. In reverse order:

1. Killing yourself so others may live: How often does this come up, really? Maybe in wartime, or times of genocide, yes. But is this really what we're talking about here? No one has said that anything even close to 0.1% of situations involve this. To use such exceedingly rare examples only cheapens the painful experiences and thoughts that most every suicidal person in America experiences.

2. "The plight your existence is having on your friends" is just another indicator of severe depression. People's lives aren't based on an eternal struggle to constantly please their friends, and saying that your existence is such a drain on other people that you're better off dead is just a way of expressing your severe depressive thoughts. If non-mentally ill people have disagreements or disputes with their friends, they either resolve them or find new friends. Mental illness causes those same people to believe that they are a burden on their friends, and the only "solution" is to kill themselves. That's not rational, and it's a thought process that often is changed with appropriate treatment.

Debt usually has a habit of disappearing when the debtor kills himself. And debt can be a heavy burden for many families.

Debt usually passes on to your heirs. It doesn't just disappear because you're dead. It just causes even more problems, since your estate can be captured by creditors, who can force your heirs to pay them first out of your own property, and then what's left can come from their pockets. Not to mention that, if you're married, your debts are your spouse's anyways (as joint marital debts, regardless of if it's an individual or joint account), and those definitely won't go away under any circumstance. And before you say that life insurance will cover it, in the US, virtually no life insurance policies cover suicide (go read your policy document if you have life insurance, I guarantee it'll exclude suicide).

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Dari
Killing yourself is not cowardly. Like you yourself said, no one wants to do it. It must be terrible what may be going through the individual's mind. Nevertheless, provided he's a responsible adult, the final decision rests with him and society should accept his decision.

It is undoubtedly terrible, and that's why he wants to do it. It's a last resort for escape. Committing suicide isn't brave, it's either desperate, cowardly, or the person is otherwise batshit crazy. If it's desperate than the person is in need of relief, if it's due to cowardice the person is in need of balls, and if it's flat-out insanity... then the picture becomes more complicated.

This is speaking in terms of suicide with purely psychological origins. In the rare case that suicide can spare one extreme pain before imminent death, we get the state of Oregon.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: numark

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: numark

Originally posted by: Dari
It can if you think about the plight your existence is having on your friends and family or if you kill yourself so that others may live.

I think you'll find that the two options you portrayed are somewhat problematic when it comes down to it. In reverse order:

1. Killing yourself so others may live: How often does this come up, really? Maybe in wartime, or times of genocide, yes. But is this really what we're talking about here? No one has said that anything even close to 0.1% of situations involve this. To use such exceedingly rare examples only cheapens the painful experiences and thoughts that most every suicidal person in America experiences.

2. "The plight your existence is having on your friends" is just another indicator of severe depression. People's lives aren't based on an eternal struggle to constantly please their friends, and saying that your existence is such a drain on other people that you're better off dead is just a way of expressing your severe depressive thoughts. If non-mentally ill people have disagreements or disputes with their friends, they either resolve them or find new friends. Mental illness causes those same people to believe that they are a burden on their friends, and the only "solution" is to kill themselves. That's not rational, and it's a thought process that often is changed with appropriate treatment.

Debt usually has a habit of disappearing when the debtor kills himself. And debt can be a heavy burden for many families.

Debt usually passes on to your heirs. It doesn't just disappear because you're dead. It just causes even more problems, since your estate can be captured by creditors, who can force your heirs to pay them first out of your own property, and then what's left can come from their pockets. Not to mention that, if you're married, your debts are your spouse's anyways (as joint marital debts, regardless of if it's an individual or joint account), and those definitely won't go away under any circumstance. And before you say that life insurance will cover it, in the US, virtually no life insurance policies cover suicide (go read your policy document if you have life insurance, I guarantee it'll exclude suicide).

IF you're married and heavily in debt, killing yourself before thinking of the burden of others is selfish. However, I'm sure a responsible adult would've tried to minimize the impact before killing himself. Anyway, debt was but one example.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dari
Killing yourself is not cowardly. Like you yourself said, no one wants to do it. It must be terrible what may be going through the individual's mind. Nevertheless, provided he's a responsible adult, the final decision rests with him and society should accept his decision.

It is undoubtedly terrible, and that's why he wants to do it. It's a last resort for escape. Committing suicide isn't brave, it's either desperate, cowardly, or the person is otherwise batshit crazy. If it's desperate than the person is in need of relief, if it's due to cowardice the person is in need of balls, and if it's flat-out insanity... then the picture becomes more complicated.

This is speaking in terms of suicide with purely psychological origins. In the rare case that suicide can spare one extreme pain before imminent death, we get the state of Oregon.

Why do you keep calling it cowardly? Can you imagine how your body would feel if you even tried to kill yourself? You'd probably start to sweat, your heart would beat very fast, and you may become terrified, as if someone else was trying to kill you. I don't see it as an escape. It is permanent, there is no going back. It is the great void that every man ponders. There is nothing to look forward to once it's done. So, IMHO, a responsible adult that seeks death after looking at every other avenue is courageous, not a coward. That is someone I can respect. However, someone literally running away from their problems is a true coward.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dari
Killing yourself is not cowardly. Like you yourself said, no one wants to do it. It must be terrible what may be going through the individual's mind. Nevertheless, provided he's a responsible adult, the final decision rests with him and society should accept his decision.

It is undoubtedly terrible, and that's why he wants to do it. It's a last resort for escape. Committing suicide isn't brave, it's either desperate, cowardly, or the person is otherwise batshit crazy. If it's desperate than the person is in need of relief, if it's due to cowardice the person is in need of balls, and if it's flat-out insanity... then the picture becomes more complicated.

This is speaking in terms of suicide with purely psychological origins. In the rare case that suicide can spare one extreme pain before imminent death, we get the state of Oregon.

Why do you keep calling it cowardly? Can you imagine how your body would feel if you even tried to kill yourself? You'd probably start to sweat, your heart would beat very fast, and you may become terrified, as if someone else was trying to kill you. I don't see it as an escape. It is permanent, there is no going back. It is the great void that every man ponders. There is nothing to look forward to once it's done. So, IMHO, a responsible adult that seeks death after looking at every other avenue is courageous, not a coward. That is someone I can respect. However, someone literally running away from their problems is a true coward.

You've obviously never had any first-hand experience with suicide. There is something to look forward to: the end of the pain. It's not rational, but I assure you there is little philisophical contemplation of some romantic "great void" in most cases. Also, there are exceedingly few cases where suicide is the only way out. In that case, depending on the situation, I might be able to respect the individual as well.

 

[numark]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dari
Killing yourself is not cowardly. Like you yourself said, no one wants to do it. It must be terrible what may be going through the individual's mind. Nevertheless, provided he's a responsible adult, the final decision rests with him and society should accept his decision.

It is undoubtedly terrible, and that's why he wants to do it. It's a last resort for escape. Committing suicide isn't brave, it's either desperate, cowardly, or the person is otherwise batshit crazy. If it's desperate than the person is in need of relief, if it's due to cowardice the person is in need of balls, and if it's flat-out insanity... then the picture becomes more complicated.

This is speaking in terms of suicide with purely psychological origins. In the rare case that suicide can spare one extreme pain before imminent death, we get the state of Oregon.

Why do you keep calling it cowardly? Can you imagine how your body would feel if you even tried to kill yourself? You'd probably start to sweat, your heart would beat very fast, and you may become terrified, as if someone else was trying to kill you. I don't see it as an escape. It is permanent, there is no going back. It is the great void that every man ponders. There is nothing to look forward to once it's done. So, IMHO, a responsible adult that seeks death after looking at every other avenue is courageous, not a coward. That is someone I can respect. However, someone literally running away from their problems is a true coward.

Then again, as I've pointed out before, how many people fit into the neat mold of perfectly rational, well-informed, and able to clearly see every possible option and evaluate it in a neutral manner, and then decide that suicide is the only true option (again, excluding euthanasia patients and people who sacrifice themselves in times of war to, e.g., throw themselves on a grenade at the last moment to save their fellow troops)? I have yet to see that person.

It's not just with suicide. Find any situation that has a common course of events 99.99% of the time, and someone can find an example of that remaining 0.01% of people. Finding that theoretical situation doesn't have any bearing on the rest of the people. You can't say that 0.01% of people are rational suicide attempters, and then claim that people like the OP's friend, who has a clear history of mental illness, fit into that same mold.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: numark

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Dari
Killing yourself is not cowardly. Like you yourself said, no one wants to do it. It must be terrible what may be going through the individual's mind. Nevertheless, provided he's a responsible adult, the final decision rests with him and society should accept his decision.

It is undoubtedly terrible, and that's why he wants to do it. It's a last resort for escape. Committing suicide isn't brave, it's either desperate, cowardly, or the person is otherwise batshit crazy. If it's desperate than the person is in need of relief, if it's due to cowardice the person is in need of balls, and if it's flat-out insanity... then the picture becomes more complicated.

This is speaking in terms of suicide with purely psychological origins. In the rare case that suicide can spare one extreme pain before imminent death, we get the state of Oregon.

Why do you keep calling it cowardly? Can you imagine how your body would feel if you even tried to kill yourself? You'd probably start to sweat, your heart would beat very fast, and you may become terrified, as if someone else was trying to kill you. I don't see it as an escape. It is permanent, there is no going back. It is the great void that every man ponders. There is nothing to look forward to once it's done. So, IMHO, a responsible adult that seeks death after looking at every other avenue is courageous, not a coward. That is someone I can respect. However, someone literally running away from their problems is a true coward.

Then again, as I've pointed out before, how many people fit into the neat mold of perfectly rational, well-informed, and able to clearly see every possible option and evaluate it in a neutral manner, and then decide that suicide is the only true option (again, excluding euthanasia patients and people who sacrifice themselves in times of war to, e.g., throw themselves on a grenade at the last moment to save their fellow troops)? I have yet to see that person.

It's not just with suicide. Find any situation that has a common course of events 99.99% of the time, and someone can find an example of that remaining 0.01% of people. Finding that theoretical situation doesn't have any bearing on the rest of the people. You can't say that 0.01% of people are rational suicide attempters, and then claim that people like the OP's friend, who has a clear history of mental illness, fit into that same mold.

Fair enough. But once he's out of that hospital and by himself, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to do it again. IMHO, the OP's friend's friends and family should expect the worst and be prepared to deal with it. Mentally ill or not, so long as he doesn't hurt others, I have a problem with people imprisoning him for his own good against his will.

 

[Sea Moose]

He might just have a fancy time piece that cuts itself.

 

[Modelworks]

I have dealt with depression for over 20 years. I have been on the so called suicide watch. Basically what it means is that they keep an eye on you . Everyone in these places gets things like shoelaces, pens, shaving equipment, and lots of other things taken from them when they enter the hospital. Even if you are not suicidal they want to make sure you don't have anything another patient may be able to steal from you. Most places check every patient every 15 minutes. Annoying at night since they go room to room, peak inside every 15 minutes. The people on suicide watch are generally one to one. Meaning a person sits outside the room 24/7 and when the person goes somewhere on the ward they stay with them .

Padded rooms and that crap is for the movies. Each ward does have a room like that, but it is usually a room with regular walls and a bed, no tables, chairs, or anything that can be thrown. A lot of the time it is used for pissed off patients. Patients that thought they were going home then the doctor changes his mind. Saw one guy get pissed because he found out he was going to jail when he left the hospital. Said he was going to take on the whole police department if they tried. When something like that happens they just send everyone to their rooms and then they call security. The staff usually does not try to restrain patients, they just get everyone out of the way and call hospital security.


I'm doing pretty good now since a job change a few years back. The thing people don't understand about depression and suicide is that most people do not want to do it. Depression gives people tunnel vision. You do not see other options as viable and it can take a lot of work to make people realize that it is not the only way out. Very few people are suicidal without being depressed. I have spent a lot of time over the years counseling suicidal people. I figured who better than someone who had been there. Many many times people can be helped by someone just willing to listen to them .

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: numark
Debt usually passes on to your heirs. It doesn't just disappear because you're dead. It just causes even more problems, since your estate can be captured by creditors, who can force your heirs to pay them first out of your own property, and then what's left can come from their pockets. Not to mention that, if you're married, your debts are your spouse's anyways (as joint marital debts, regardless of if it's an individual or joint account), and those definitely won't go away under any circumstance. And before you say that life insurance will cover it, in the US, virtually no life insurance policies cover suicide (go read your policy document if you have life insurance, I guarantee it'll exclude suicide).

No, it doesn't. "What you own stands for what you owe" - if the sum of everything you own is greater than your debt, then the rest of the debt is no longer owed. Obviously if you're married and it's a joint debt, the totality of the debt transfers to your spouse. Even if not a joint debt, the deceased's portion of any joint assets is owed to the debtees.

 

[SonnyDaze]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Can we sign up for the live feed? I wanna watch too.

:laugh:

 

[amdhunter]

Topic Title: friend on suicide watch
Topic Summary: what does that mean exactly?

It means your friend is an emo.