From China with Love [G80, R600 and G81 info]

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Creig
AMD and ATi Acquisition Complete

Well, I'd say that AMD/ATi has decided to stay in the performance GPU business.

- Planning to invest in our consumer electronics and high-end graphics businesses
- Maintain and extend our leadership in discrete graphics

Thank you, does this mean that the doom-sayers can shut up now?

Originally posted by: Ibiza
Well we know what drugs you are on Ulfhednar.

And your point is? I don't think that you don't have one, just a moron with an ad hominem.

Who were you before the ban?

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking
Josh.. your copy-n-pasted parallelism logic is interesting, but it does not imply CPU to GPU operations directly interact with each other without the use of system memory. As long as system memory is being used, the same FBS speed matters and there isn't an improvement in performance.

Memory is, in comparison to CPU registry, a bottleneck. That is why often times increased cache would improve performance.

I agree with you that the GPU/CPU integration is a great idea, in that it will reduce manufacturing cost and reduce the size/number of components required (for things such as PDA, cellphones, ultracompact notebooks) and reduce electricity required to run them. However, I do not see an improvement in performance as you have implied it will have. Perhaps you are mistaken?

It's a given that they will still use system memory, but just because of that does not mean that there will be no performance increase. We have already seen a good deal of performance from moving the mem controler on die. AMD has talked about their direct connect ideas in the past. I put together some links that talk more about this shift in system orginization that AMD seams to be on. Be sure to look at the slides and tell me what you think.

Fusion

Torrenza and Unified GPU/CPU Processors
Here is a quote from this article:

"As we look towards ever finer manufacturing geometries we see the opportunity to integrate CPU and GPU cores together onto the same die to better serve the needs of some segments." A clever DailyTech reader recently pointed out that AMD just recently filed its first graphics-oriented patent a few weeks ago. The patent, titled "CPU and graphics unit with shared cache" seems to indicate that these pet projects at AMD are a little more than just pipe dreams.

This leads me to believe that AMD intends to use on die cache the same way cpu's do now. In an effort to keep loads from main memory low as you are correct it would slow performance.

Torrenza Tech
Here is a bit about Torrenza and what is possible with HT:

Because of its flexibility, the HyperTransport protocol allows a multitude of co-processor designs that are already compatible with systems on other platforms. For example, with Torrenza, specialized co-processors are able to sit directly into an Opteron socket, and communicate directly with the entire system...Although AMD acknowledges many of these applications can run off PCIe and other connection technologies, Torrenza emphasizes HT-3 and HTX in particular....AMD representatives said that because of the archicture, Torrenza allows very low latency communication between chipset, main processor and co-processors.

So even if the GPU and CPU where not put on the same die they would probably be put on and HTX as a co-processor which would be alot lower latency than on PCI-E

AMD HTX
Here is a quote from the article it gives a very rough estimate to the performance of a co-processor system:

With AMD opening up their HT architecture, quick communication between their processors and a HTX card or socket could allow for media encoder co-processors that can accelerate media encoding by up to 10-100 times...Eitherway, using HT links that allow for lower latency and high bandwidth access directly to the CPU look like it could bring some exciting developments to PC platform processing power.

Again very rough 10-100 is quite a margin but it's at least a number.

 

[Griswold]

ATI R600
-This is ATIs last attempt, so its going to be good. And thats why they dont care about missing Christmas sales.. its the last from them like this (high end). After this, everything moves to a pro-AMD stance.

Yea, these people must attend the strategic meetings of the AMD/ATI board of directors. :laugh:

 

[Ibiza]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

And your point is? I don't think that you don't have one, just a moron with an ad hominem.

Who were you before the ban?

Come, come, its clear what my point was. You insulted Crusader with references to drugs when in fact you are the one taking a pretty potent mix of drugs for your personality disorder :disgust:

Now could you please answer my question?

Is compulsively trolling on internet forums one of the symptoms of your illness? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Ibiza
Come, come, its clear what my point was. You insulted Crusader with references to drugs when in fact you are the one taking a pretty potent mix of drugs for your personality disorder :disgust:

Still failing to see your point as there's a difference between hyperbole (e.g. "dude what are you smoking?") and fact.

I'm also genuinely interested in who you were before the ban.

:disgust:

 

[Ibiza]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: Ibiza
Come, come, its clear what my point was. You insulted Crusader with references to drugs when in fact you are the one taking a pretty potent mix of drugs for your personality disorder :disgust:

Still failing to see your point as there's a difference between hyperbole (e.g. "dude what are you smoking?") and fact.

I'm also genuinely interested in who you were before the ban.

:disgust:

I've only been banned in your twisted imagination ulfhedner, sorry.

I'm really not interested in arguing with someone with a personality disorder, thats just too freaky for me.

Now could you please stop evading my question?

Is compulsively trolling on internet forums one of the symptoms of your illness? I'm genuinely interested.

Thanks.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Ibiza

I've only been banned in your twisted imagination ulfhedner, sorry.

I'm really not interested in arguing with someone with a personality disorder, thats just too freaky for me.

Now could you please stop evading my question?

Is compulsively trolling on internet forums one of the symptoms of your illness? I'm genuinely interested.

Thanks.

Dude, give it up already. He was clearly asking in a joking manner and was NOT implying that Crusader was actually on drugs. Whatever drugs he takes are his own thing and it's rather revolting that you would try and tease him about it. If that isn't a direct personal attack I don't know what is. Would you tease someone who was taking drugs for cancer treatment? Of course not. Only a person from the lowest dregs of society would think of such a thing. So why would you do the same for another medical condition?

Clearly Ulfhednar doesn't need any defending, as his witty posts imply, but it horks me off when people are so mean-spirited and ignorant.

 

[BoberFett]

This thread is hilarious, listening to the fanboys bicker.

Honestly, how profitable do you think the high end video card market is for Nvidia? Just how many people actually spend $600 on a video card? Not many.

If nothing else, the ATI division has to keep pressing ahead with R&D because today's high end chip is tomorrows budget chip.

Besides, why would AMD buy ATI if they were just going to produce the equivalent of an Intel Extreme chip? There are certainly cheaper ways to obtain a crappy graphics solution.

There are so many holes in the logic of some of you morons that I'm actually embarrassed for you.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Ibiza
I'm really not interested in arguing with someone with a personality disorder, thats just too freaky for me.

If I freak you out too much to argue with then I must freak you out too much to talk with.

So kindly get your head out of my ass. :roll:

Originally posted by: Elfear
Clearly Ulfhednar doesn't need any defending as his witty posts imply but it horks me off when people are so mean-spirited and ignorant.

I think more than a few people would describe my posts as anything but witty, lol.

On the contrary, I think many would describe me as mean-spirited and ignorant too.

You're right about the joking manner though, it was simply hyperbole directed at a drooling, idiotic fanboy with severe jingoism issues... And I stand by my comment.

 

[Ibiza]

Elfear, please stop making excuses for him, try reading some of his posts.. The guy is clearly an abusive troller. Whether he is mentally ill or not, it shouldn't be allowed.

If ulfhednar answers my question, maybe it will make him question himself as to why he posts with such an ugly attitude.

Here it is again ulfhedner.

Is compulsively trolling on internet forums one of the symptoms of your illness? I'm genuinely interested.

So is it?

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Ibiza
Elfear, please stop making excuses for him, try reading some of his posts.. The guy is clearly an abusive troller. Whether he is mentally ill or not, it shouldn't be allowed.

If ulfhednar answers my question, maybe it will make him question himself as to why he posts with such an ugly attitude.

Originally posted by: Ibiza
I'm really not interested in arguing with someone with a personality disorder, thats just too freaky for me.

Make up your mind. :roll: I guess I am not the only one with personality disorders here.

I do wind people up on occasion, but what are you doing if not trolling? Is this why you were banned?

 

[Ibiza]

It's not that hard to answer is it?

Is compulsively trolling on internet forums one of the symptoms of your illness? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Ibiza
It's not that hard to answer is it?

Originally posted by: Ibiza
I'm really not interested in arguing with someone with a personality disorder, thats just too freaky for me.

Maybe you should have said "I'm really not interested in arguing with someone with a personality disorder, thats just too freaky for me, but I will make that my plans for the day anyway." :roll:

 

[Ibiza]

Since when has asking a genuine question been arguing?

Can you answer?

Is compulsively trolling on internet forums one of the symptoms of your illness? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[XNice]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
This thread is hilarious, listening to the fanboys bicker.

There are so many holes in the logic of some of you morons that I'm actually embarrassed for you.

QFT..... IBIZA AND ULFHEDNAR please stop flaming each other in the thread and move it to PM's. No one wants to read your petty bullshit.

And people its a fvcking ACQUISITION Not a MERGER. AMD bought ATI, They will now dictate what ATI does to a certain extent.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
This thread is hilarious, listening to the fanboys bicker.

Honestly, how profitable do you think the high end video card market is for Nvidia? Just how many people actually spend $600 on a video card? Not many.

If nothing else, the ATI division has to keep pressing ahead with R&D because today's high end chip is tomorrows budget chip.

Besides, why would AMD buy ATI if they were just going to produce the equivalent of an Intel Extreme chip? There are certainly cheaper ways to obtain a crappy graphics solution.

There are so many holes in the logic of some of you morons that I'm actually embarrassed for you.

My sentiments exactly. This buyout has the Nvidia fanatics grasping for any little tidbit that they feel will help validate their "ATi is going down!!" wet dreams.


Oh, and Ibiza? STFU already!!!

 

[imported_Crusader]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Crusader


Another forum member named some of those possibilities, but I think Intel themselves could enter the market if they wanted to, and saw profitability. Or even Microsoft. Theres nothing stopping them from purchasing PowerVR and TSMC and immedately start producing GPUs if the cost is worth it.

I dont believe it is worth it for anyone, unless someone comes across some amazing engineers that really produce something great (like the R300 or NV40). But otherwise I dont see anyone just saying "meh, lets give this a shot".

Your point here is exactly what has me scratching my head at your glee that ATI may leave the high-end market. If you concede that filling ATI's place will be very hard if not impossible (especially in the short-term) than who will compete with Nvidia directly to drive down prices and keep innovative products coming our way?

I'm not saying ATI won't leave the high-end market (although unlikely IMO), but I'm trying to figure out WHY you would want them to besides some personal vendetta against them? It just seems like a lose lose situation for consumers for many years if that happens.

I dont know if I think ATIs place would be hard to fill, they werent much of a company. Good engineering... poor marketing and poor software engineering. Almost anyone who put in the effort and that was capable could step in, and do a better job giving Nvidia fits.
ATI leaving the high end, if it happens could be the best thing that could happen for price/performance and especially product quality. If 3dfx wouldnt have bumbled the job, they'd been a better competitor to Nvidia the past few years.
ATI wasnt much for the high end till they bought ArtX and stole their R300 they had developed. During the 8500 days, ATI was in deep danger of going under. Todays developents with the aquisition was the final nail in the coffin for that company.
My point was that it wouldnt be hard to replace ATI, as there are easily plenty of more capable people out there than that inept organization. But rather, it probably isnt worth getting in the market at this point. Nvidia is running like a fine tuned machine since the Geforce6 on product quality, development schedule, hard launches, support, and performance and featureset.

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: JohnCU
paxil 25mg CR (everyday)

I was on that and it gave me horrible side-effects like feeling faint and cold sweating, it also ruined my appetite and I didn't eat for days at a time.

I'm currently on Sertraline (Zoloft) 200mg daily for depression/anxiety, it's not bad but it's not strong enough as I still have plenty of anxiety attacks in social situations.

Also on Zopiclone (Zimovane) 7.5mg daily for insomnia and Chlorpromazine (Largactil) 100mg a day for other stuff.

Pretty much a troll most of the time. :frown:

Paints finger nails black? Thats awesome Elfdinner. I'm guessing Brits would rather eject this misfit loser from their country.. everyone else is busy making money and being productive, adding to society. Maybe someday when you get over being a lazy, mental headcase you can to, troll. You should off yourself freak.



Go crusade elsewhere for the next two weeks.
AnandTech Moderator

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Crusader

Paints finger nails black? Thats awesome Elfdinner. I'm guessing Brits would rather eject this misfit loser from their country.. everyone else is busy making money and being productive, adding to society. Maybe someday when you get over being a lazy, mental headcase you can to, troll. You should off yourself freak.

i thought personal attacks weren't allowed ... nor suggesting a fellow poster kill themselves.
:frown:

Gstanfor was warned yesterday for exactly the same behaviour.

 

[JBT]

wow thats a horrible poll...

 

[Creig]

Crusader was already given a one week vacation not long ago. I'd say this last comment should get him either a month (or dare we hope) a permanent ban.

edit:
Oh well, two weeks is better than nothing. Thank you, Mods!

 

[ronnn]

now that Nvidia pr has given us (from many sources), pictures and features. Also some fairly meaningless 3dm benching. Nicely done launch with lots of viral seeding. If this card lives up to the hype, should be a monster! If it doesn't, should sell well anyways, as this has been one fine ad campaign - with several internet personalities used nicely. Not one has broke ranks and released any real fantasy game numbers. Is unfortunate that preview websites and forums are losing meaning. :beer:

 

[BoberFett]

When ATI acquires ArtX to get at their technology it's considered stealing? What exactly was Nvidia doing when it siphoned off SGI's engineers?

Crusader is silly little troll, good riddance.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: ronnn
now that Nvidia pr has given us (from many sources), pictures and features. Also some fairly meaningless 3dm benching. Nicely done launch with lots of viral seeding. If this card lives up to the hype, should be a monster! If it doesn't, should sell well anyways, as this has been one fine ad campaign - with several internet personalities used nicely. Not one has broke ranks and released any real fantasy game numbers. Is unfortunate that preview websites and forums are losing meaning. :beer:

since when are speculation threads on new video cards viral marketing?

[tinfoil hat] OMG TEH VIRAL MARKETERS ARE COMING TO GET US[/tinfoil hat]

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Vinnybcfc

Originally posted by: Crusader
-This is ATIs last attempt

Originally posted by: Crusader
Even then who knows? I dont, and it offends the ATI fanboys so much to assume the reality of ATI losing money on the high end for years now (and propping it up by stealing money from their other, more profitable business areas) means that AMD is probably not going to continue fighting a losing war... I'm done saying it myself.

o rly?

sounds like bs to me; if the high end graphics market wasnt worth it and a loss then why have ATI made the last couple of generations of high end cards?

I'd wager that ATI did better in the high end than in the low end. ATI's been raped in the low to mid end for the past several years and really only overtook nvidia there during the fx series, the high end has been pretty much the limit of ati's success. Which is really the problem, since the high end doesn't do much profit wise and just drives the sale of the low end, which it hasn't for ATI. ATI's actually been in a situation very similar to what 3dfx was in, except 3dfx abandoned the high end exclusively for the low end to mid range and found that even with large sales, it didn't make money if they couldn't produce their products cost competitively with nvidia. At least ATI has had the high end to trickle in some money, certainly people weren't buying x700s in droves.

Any way you look at it, Intel systems will remain the majority and, while K8L may be good, it's unlikely to smack Core 2 Quad down into the dirt, so that means that, at best, only a minority of gaming systems (the AMD ones) can ever be Crossfire-compatible, while all of them (Intel and AMD) can be SLI-compatible. For practical purposes that means Crossfire is dying - the AMD market won't be big enough to make it worth supporting.

Maybe ATI will pick up a SLI license. Standardization would be good for the market.
Well, unless it turns out like the sound card market. Creative sort of has a monopoly, of the 2% of the market that still buys add in gamer cards. The rest go with integrated.

Maybe nvidia will go with Sony and the Playstation Computer Platform will become dominant. I'd say alternative PC markets will be much more likely than anyone challenging nvidia (and x86) in the PC market. Look for a build up of cell phones and other mobile platforms, along with game consoles to strike at the heart of the PC.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: ronnn
now that Nvidia pr has given us (from many sources), pictures and features. Also some fairly meaningless 3dm benching. Nicely done launch with lots of viral seeding. If this card lives up to the hype, should be a monster! If it doesn't, should sell well anyways, as this has been one fine ad campaign - with several internet personalities used nicely. Not one has broke ranks and released any real fantasy game numbers. Is unfortunate that preview websites and forums are losing meaning. :beer:

ronnn, there are ALWAYS leaks when new cards are released. Especially when it's something as significant and as highly anticipated as the G80. I don't think Nvidia needed to "seed" anything.